Simon Suraci

I proposed a massage trade with BigTallMuscle some months back earlier in 2023. Never got to see him mostly due to travel and schedule conflicts. He was hesitant to meet, telling me he didn’t think he could control himself enough to get through it with professionalism lol! Apparently he had a crush on me. Aw, shucks. I was curious about his massage and wanted to mutually benefit from a trade. I would still love to see BigTallMuscle someday. He sounds like a real sweetheart, although we’ve never met in person. @Becket’s comment sounds fun! Wow I’d like to add Dann to this list, since he falls into the more mature masseur category. He’s covered elsewhere in the forums, definitely worth a visit. He started filming adult content in addition to his massage and esthetician work, so his availability may be affected by that. Since summer 2023, he travels to film scenes. Great guy, highly recommend. https://www.masseurfinder.com/massage-therapists/37362/ Give these mature men some love. I haven’t seen all of them, but oftentimes they have more experience, patience, and respect than the younger crowd. Sometimes less expensive, although not warranted. It’s a byproduct of overvaluation of youth and looks. For massage, the experience is more important than how the guy looks. You’re face down and/or eyes closed for most of it anyway. These are just generalizations. YMMV.

If I have interest from enough NYC forum members, I would make a trip. It’s too expensive for me to risk a stay there without a solid list of committed clients to justify the trip. I’ll keep it in mind for the next time I am in NY state to make NYC a destination.

Just ask me for it next time I’m in Buffalo! 😜

I do it for clients from time to time. Sexting and/or phone. I charge the same rates as I do for massage, starting at a half hour. Can’t say it’s popular, but for a few it really works well. Some clients way overextend their welcome via text or phone. They typically want to indulge their fantasies rather than simply arrange some details for an in person session, so I offer phone sex and sexting as options for them to keep going. It either cuts off the bs right there, or sometimes a client finds value in demanding my time and goes for it. It’s a great natural filter to find out who is serious about what they want and who just wants to take advantage of me for a free phone/text jerk off session. Apparently they find value in it but aren’t willing to pay. Charging for my time helps them value my time as much as I do.

If you discussed doing certain activities and you didn’t do them after asking in person for him to follow through, I would offer a partial payment and wish him well. Sounds like he was really going through something. We all have off days. An honest review won’t tarnish his reputation. If he has many satisfied reviewers, that will all outweigh his off day, but also show his audience that he’s a human and not perfect 100% of the time. That’s ok. Also, it’s easy to lose good judgment when in the presence of a fantasy guy. I got a massage in Dallas once from a well reviewed masseur to see what all the fuss was, and lo and behold the massage was awful, cut short half the time, and ended in a robotic way, but I was so captivated by the guy’s body, looks and demeanor in the moment that I let so much more slide than I normally would have. The others who had seen him were so blindsided by his looks that they felt compelled to leave a positive review. I acknowledge this is a masseur vs a provider but it happens in both realms. It’s easy to get emotionally carried away in the moment. In your case, apologizing saying it’s you, not him that was the problem. It was him for sure that was the problem. People should know that this happened. He did not fulfill his end of the agreement, nor did he offer to make it right in some other way. This is why we have reviews. It keeps us providers honest, pushing to do our best and get better over time. Be kind, but be honest too. It helps everyone.

@Jarrod_Uncut you know I love you man. You know I wish you success. We disagree on a lot of things and that’s ok. I’m comfortable with that and have respect for our differences. I’m the kind of guy who will invest his heart and soul into helping others, at the expense of his own sanity sometimes. At some point I have to give up for my own mental health because the other person isn’t interested in help or ideas or getting better, but emotionally it costs me a lot to keep caring so much. It’s just me trying to be supportive and struggling when all the other person does is continue to sabotage himself, close himself off from others who are genuinely interested in his success. You’re not interested in opinions or insight, or adapting or trying new things. Or taking serious advice from the forum members who have taken time out of their lives to respond genuinely and thoughtfully to your posts. You want the hiring world to conform to your business model and to your preferences. That ain’t gonna happen. Never. Years of promotion on these forums has not changed hearts and minds, even those most sympathetic to you. If anything, you’ve alienated many potential clients, and some of them have said that to me privately. You will never give up on the deposits policy, and that’s ok. You do you. You’re entitled to do business how you see fit. What we forum members find most exhausting is that you continue complain about the consequences of your own policies, where you choose to live, and how you choose to do business. If you don’t like how it’s working out for you, you’re welcome to change any of those things. But we know you won’t do that. Never. You want the world to change instead, and when it doesn’t, you complain…and then keep demanding it to change…and when you’re met with reasonable skepticism about your expectations, you try to convince the world that they’re all wrong. It’s a miserable cycle. You’re not going to convince others that they should charge/pay deposits as a new norm for hiring across the board. The industry is never going to change to fit how you want and think it should be. Period. Continue with the policies that work for you. And when they don’t work for you, feel free to complain again (and again, and again) about the same things, but don’t be shocked when it falls on deaf ears. Forum members are utterly exhausted for sympathy for you. And that’s coming from someone who genuinely cares about you and wants to see you succeed! I’ll be taking a step back from engaging with some of the more repetitive posts from Jarrod. It’s too exhausting for me to keep going. I don’t mean to say I won’t engage with Jarrod in general, just that I’m going to skip the topics where I already know your opinion and have heard similar complaints a zillion times already and know you aren’t interested in discussing ways to get better. There’s no point. It’s a total waste of time.

Thank you for bringing this point up, Danny. It’s so important. Just today I checked in with a regular client on how he wants to handle communication. So far I only text when he reaches out to me, since he told me he has a wife and kids and needs to maintain his discretion. Occasionally he will send a message out of the blue unrelated to arranging an appointment and I’m happy to engage. I just wasn’t sure if it’s ok to reciprocate by initiating a text conversation at some other time I was thinking of him. He said to send only a smiley face first and wait for him to respond to it when he is ready to engage. Every client is different. Until I establish that it’s ok to initiate contact the client, I avoid reaching out and let them come to me when they’re ready. So many clients need discretion, and I respect that 100%.

I had one A4A client who hired me for escort service in Dallas. He paid my rate for an outcall and all went well. Then a day or two later he started demanding that I meet with him for free, for meals, for sex, whatever. I had to tell him very directly what the boundaries are and that he can hire my time, but that I wasn’t on A4A for personal friendships or dating. He had hired others before, and he has a husband too, which puzzled me all the more. I had to block him it got so bad. He was harassing me and threatening me, first on the app and then by text. Crazy. That’s the one really bad experience so far where I think the lines between hookup app and hiring were blurred, at least in the client’s mind. Everyone else gets it. You pay x for y. That’s the arrangement. No hookup app dynamics nonsense. At least for some, the platform is a problem. By and large, it’s not.

@Jarrod_Uncut inspired me to try A4A earlier this year. I wondered if there was any decent business in it. Figured if I got one client the whole year, it would pay for itself. Turns out, I made my annual subscription back many, many times over. Including a regular who sees me about once every two weeks. For me at least, it was a sound investment. Sure, it’s not the greatest platform or my most profitable or as versatile as the others. It’s designed primarily for hookups and dating, but they organize it in such a way that makes it easy to find Pros offering services. Since fewer advertisers are present, the few would-be clients who are looking for guys like me find me and hire without a fuss. I actually really like A4A. I don’t spend much time on it and it brings me business. The “Pro” ads are clearly labeled as such, so people don’t contact me unless they are inquiring about rates or services. Once in a while someone doesn’t read anything on the ad, even the big “Pro” symbol plastered all over it. I gently indicate in my first reply that I’m a masseur and my ad is a Pro ad and ask if they are interested in hiring me. That’s enough to send them politely on their way and they don’t bother me. A few times, someone who wasn’t initially looking to hire any services paused to consider hiring me anyway and then they actually did! Maybe it’s white privelege. I don’t know. Honestly I think it’s the market Jarrod is in. I do fine, even when I travel to smaller markets in the south. On tour earlier this year a few guys hit me up for business on A4A in their city. Maybe it’s luck. Whatever it is, it seems to work well for me, so I will continue to leverage this marketing tool as long as it makes business sense. The other night, a client started abusing RentMasseur emails as a tool to jerk off and indulge his fantasy with me and get some free sexting time. He wasn’t serious about hiring and he was clever about keeping me engaged regarding hiring me just enough to keep going. When that became clear, I said he can hire me for phone sex or sexting at xxx rate, but that I would not be communicating anymore unless it was to confirm the details of a real in person appointment he intends to keep. His communication thankfully stopped without having to block or escalate things. I can see this kind of thing happening on A4A, but contrary to my expectations, it has yet to happen to me. I get the bullshit texts and messages on other platforms, but never so far on A4A. Only one client I had to turn down because he was a psycho intent on hurting me in his potential session. Everyone else has been great. Lots of asking for rates, as expected. I get a comparably high booking to inquiries ratio. Maybe 40-50% of inquiries eventually lead to bookings. Not a lot of time wasted. Quite the opposite of Jarrod’s experience. A4A push notifications actually work, which helps a lot. RentMen Messenger won’t alert me no matter how many times I set the alerts to do so. RM Messenger is a total crapshoot. Unless I open the app every hour, I don’t see messages. Just text me. Burner number or whatever I don’t care, at least I will see the message and respond in a timely manner that way.

@Jarrod_UncutOuch, that sucks. Note for clients: sometimes we can’t present information in the way you want us to because of the limitations of a certain platform or out of sensitivity to legal concerns. It’s not always an oversight or a deliberate omission, but sometimes it is. Providers and platforms vary.

Here’s how I get around it. Who knows how long this will fly, but you could try some clever version of it. Imperfect solution I admit, and it’s at the bottom of the page in a less obvious location, but at least one way to get by.

This is topic pops up every few months. We have many past threads covering the subject. Here are a couple to reference:

Haha I have this song on a new playlist, but it’s a remix by a Nina Simone and Joel Corey. The Michael Bublé version I’ve heard too many times before but enjoy the song in general. When you’re on a massage table, you are indeed feeling good! Sets the mood. Clients frequently offer positive comments about my playlists. Songs have quite a wide range from chill house to bluegrass, to blues, to 90s alt covers, to contemporary folk, to divas, to rock, to classic stuff and much more. I carefully craft each playlist to flow well, have some internal logic and have complimentary songs, but have enough variety and unexpected but pleasant pairings and be conducive to massage, relaxation, and good feelings. I even add some Easter eggs in my lists, like the theme to Firefly. Fans of the show immediately get it and laugh with surprise and delight. Most don’t get it, but it can be a fun way to connect with a client when they do. I only do the Easter eggs when it makes sense with the surrounding songs and overall vibe, and sparingly. Had to laugh at myself when I put “Relax” by Frankie Goes to Hollywood at the end of a playlist a while back and then immediately decided against it. I avoid the typical go-to music choices like wind instruments, water sounds, Enya, all instrumental covers, and the like. I like my clients to not feel like they are necessarily going to fall asleep, or like they are in any old generic forgettable massage space, but not be at a dance party either. Just relaxing, if not unconventional massage music. Most of it you would not automatically consider “massage” music, but it works really well. I even put some Depeche Mode on a list and it works great. You would never think to do that but I think outside the box. The whole experience is important. I engage all five senses to be something memorable, enjoyable, and identifiable as part of my brand. Sound: carefully crafted custom playlists. Private massage space, no shared walls or outside noise disruptions. Sight: relaxing eclectic interior design, art, mood lighting, nudity. Touch: well, obviously. Plus the comfort of the table and real 100% cotton coverings. I use an extra wide memory foam table with a solid armrest. Smell: my own handmade essential oil beeswax candles and my own custom made essential oil aromatherapy pillow spray. Me being clean, and my breath fresh. Taste: use your imagination! Oh, and I always have a bowl of Starburst candy for a treat on the way out. Strawberry flavor (pink). Other flavors available.

And a big, beautiful mast, it is! So glad RentMen came to their senses. It’s crazy to have a business model of selling dicks and ass (or at least being a platform that facilitates it) when clients can neither see the dicks nor the asses!

^Yes, this is correct. MasseurFinder requires the client to email their review content to the masseur, and for the masseur to copy and paste the content to the site for their AI system to screen for sexual language, etc before MF will post it publicly on the client’s behalf. MF tells us masseurs to keep records of the emails in case they audit us, should anything come into question. It’s a loosely goosey honor system with little accountability. The only accountability is the audit. Also, there’s nothing stopping a masseur from filtering out negative reviews a clients sends them. A client would be unlikely to email a negative review directly to the masseur in the first place. In theory, a masseur can make a fake email and send a review from that email to their regular email and then submit it to MF. I’ve never done this, but it occurred to me now that I’m thinking about it. That email trail, fabricated though it may be, would still pass the audit as far as I can tell. I only have two MF reviews, because they make it so difficult and roundabout for clients to leave reviews. MF limits the number of reviews we can post in any given timeframe, like once a quarter, or once a month, at most - I can’t remember which. MF is the least reliable review system because of the way it’s set up. You will see nothing but positive reviews on that platform. A masseur would literally have to intentionally post a negative review of himself for it to go through. On RentMasseur, clients can post directly, and include negative comments without a hitch. The only catch is that the client has to have at least one mutual exchange with the masseur using RentMasseur’s messaging system before the site will allow the client to post a review. I haven’t had the need to remove a malicious review yet, so I don’t know the process for getting a review taken down. We are able to respond once briefly to the review comment, so we have the opportunity to clarify anything unfair or inaccurate about the review, such as the client demanded a huge discount that we never advertised or offered, or was a no-show, or did not book with us, or lied about something, demanded escort service for massage pricing, or was unreasonable or violent or threatening or whatever the case may be. All my reviews are unsolicited. I asked one client one time for a review and he agreed to write one, but I felt gross about it, and the client never wrote the review and never saw me again, even though he said it was the best massage of his life and that he planned to return. I think the effort of writing a review was a barrier for him to return. Good clients take the time to write an unsolicited positive review and I truly appreciate when they do. Since that one time, I’ve never asked for, much less incentivized, any reviews. My approach is that I have nothing to worry about since I know I do a great job and give every client my all. I take pride in my work, and my 100% unsolicited reviews stand on their own, typos and all. If anyone wants to post something wildly inaccurate or malicious for some reason, it will stand as the lone off color comment among many glowing reviews across a several platforms. The best place to review me is on Booksy. I have the most reviews there, and again it’s all 100% unsolicited and real people writing real reviews. ^This is inaccurate. See above. The masseur is the one who submits the client review content to MF. If the masseur doesn’t like a review a client sends to them by email, they can simply choose to not post it. Are you sure you’re not confusing MasseurFINDER with RENTmasseur? I could see that happening on RentMasseur, but it’s simply untrue of MasseurFinder. I haven’t had to ask RentMasseur to remove a review, so I don’t know the process for that. It would have to be something truly malicious and outrageous for me to need to do that. Someone saying they didn’t like my massage or style or personality or something like that is not enough to merit taking a review down. Clients should hear all the opinions and decide for themselves. Reviews keep us accountable and encourage us to do better, get better, and stay honest.

Here is another thread to cross reference that veers into related discussions about CBP and providers taking risks crossing borders, particularly the US border. The question there had more to do with why providers obscure/chop their faces. CBP is a lot of that reason why. I don’t have a six pack or a medically enhanced bedonk, or a 10” snake, so the clients who hire me often do so because they can see - and like - my face. (Humbly, I know I’m not for everyone). A lot of clients really like my body just the way it is and tell me to never to change it. That’s sweet, but if all I showed was below the neck, I’m sure I wouldn’t even get half the new clients. I’m realistic about how clients shop for providers. I have to present the best of myself. For some providers, showing face is necessary, and part of their brand. How else can I exhibit my warm, welcoming attitude when a client can’t see my smile and my eyes? Anyway, at least for me, hiding my face is not an option, and even if it was, that ship has sailed. I’m almost certainly already in the big brother databases. When I travel I have to take steps to avoid having anything incriminating on my devices. It’s a pain managing that process every time I cross a border, but absolutely necessary.

Sorry to hear @Unicorn left. I feel a song coming on…. Cheers to doing what is best for oneself.

Yes, please do read the previous post @marylander1940 took the time to reference. Lots of discussion on there re: same subject.

Comments about whether to be in the biz at all notwithstanding… …speaking fluent Spanish is an asset in San Diego. Occasionally a client will contact me requesting service with Spanish-only communication. Unfortunately I do not speak more than a few phrases and words in Spanish, so I rely on an automatic translator to relay information. Clients with the patience and understanding to communicate that way will see me. I have several Spanish speaking clients with very limited to no English skills and we get by just fine. Sometimes I miss out on work because the language barrier is too much for the client. It’s just a matter of client preference. I imagine some of our local Spanish speaking clients would prefer a fluent Spanish speaker provider. I can’t say being a Spanish speaking provider would be unique or novel around San Diego, but it certainly would be an asset and an opportunity to capture a particular niche in the market, especially if your look is different than the majority of other Spanish speaking providers in the area. I can’t speak to your look since I don’t have an ad or photo to go on. I recall seeing your ad while back when you posted it, but I lack a photographic memory. I speak French and I have many francophone clients. That would help me a lot more in Canada or other French speaking places, but those clients seem to find me here just fine one way or another. Another reason location isn’t everything.

I can’t speak to NYC but many other members here can. My understanding is that it’s the largest market in the United Sates. Dallas/ Ft Worth is a large metroplex area. It’s on track to exceed Chicago within the next 15 or so years. Dallas constantly has many traveling providers because it’s 1) a major city and 2) an air transportation hub. Southwest and American are based there, and several major airlines have routes there. There’s plenty of room for competition in Dallas, but if you try there, see what you can do to differentiate yourself from everyone else. That’s good advice anywhere, but it’s easy to get lost in the crowd in Dallas. Anywhere is going to be less of a crowd than NYC, so maybe that doesn’t matter for your purposes. You might try a trip to Dallas just to see how the locals respond to you. Try a week and see how it goes. There’s no lack of demand, just varying tastes and schedules. You might even bump into several traveling clients, since it’s such a hub and travelers have more urgency to book in a given timeframe than locals.

^This guy gets it!

I agree with most of the above. Every provider is different. You can charge whatever you want and it doesn’t have to match what the average is in a given area. It just has to make business sense for you. An escort’s advertised rate for one hour does mean something, but it’s more nuanced than that. I have different rates for massage than I do for escort service, for example, and I even do some breakout pricing for clients who want a blend of both in a single session. My escort rate is $300/hr which covers all the basics and even some niche interest activities. I discount my rate for longer hires, which is a lot of my business. You might find rates similar to mine in almost all major US cities. Higher in NYC/LA/SF etc, and lower in the American heartland. I can’t speak for everyone or give you an average rate, but mine is probably not very far off from a lot of other guys around SD. You get a LOT of outlier guys around SD and LA charging 5 or even $600+ for a single hour of service, but they can’t possibly be that busy working full time as an in person service escort. Most of them are doing fans sites work and/or have other jobs, and take the odd client once in a while who is willing to pay an outrageous fee for a specific look, body type, or niche service. The serious escorts who do this every day full time for their main living charge closer to the going rates. Even the part time guys often fall within the going rates: $250/hr at the low end, up to $350+/hr at the high end, excluding the unserious outliers I mentioned above. Some of that pricing becomes irrelevant when you’re entertaining clients for longer hires, like half a day, overnight, or multiple days. Those total in the thousands. Clients hire me most frequently for five hours, all-inclusive for $1000. That’s only $200/hr, but makes a hell of a lot more business sense for me. The per-hr rate is not everything. It’s just a benchmark. It’s the closest thing we have to something objective to compare. Like @SouthOfTheBorder mentioned, there are a lot of variables at play. You do what makes business sense for YOU, not what you perceive everyone else does. @socurious No kissing is quite limiting. Your pool of potential clients will be much smaller if you either can’t or won’t do all the vanilla basics like kissing, touching, jerking off, cuddling, oral, and anal (either or both positions), and preferably flexible on protected vs unprotected. The majority of clients want one or more of those activities, usually multiple. Most clients willing to pay close to the going rate want some kind of penetration, but not all. To be successful, you need to appeal to a wide variety of people. If you’re not all of the following: in your 20s (true age), conventionally extremely attractive, and fit, you have to appeal to the majority of clients in other ways. Some of those are: providing all the basic (and maybe some niche) services, demonstrating superior skills, and being easy to work with, and to a much lesser degree, how you price your services. I agree with many of the points @SouthOfTheBorder mentioned too. Price is probably the least important factor of all, assuming you’re not pricing way below or way above the going rates.

Agree 100% with @SouthOfTheBorder. You have to be good, no matter where you’re working. Some markets will be better for certain providers, but overall, the best providers do well most anywhere that has a sizable population to support them. Traveling is another strategy. Moving to San Diego won’t magically change your businesses overnight. I’m from San Diego originally and currently work in the San Diego market as a masseur and escort. I was successful in Dallas for a couple years too. Yes, SD is a smaller city, and a smaller market, and more difficult in some ways. We have more than plenty of provider choices, and a great many traveling providers constantly passing through. Fewer permanent guys, but plenty relative to the population. The gay porn industry is anchored here, and by extension, LA and the rest of SoCal. Many years ago I used to work my desk job on the floor above “Suite 703”. It actually was located on the seventh floor of my building. Sean Cody is here, among many others. A lot of those models are active here, or retire and remain in San Diego long term. I know some of them. A lot of them escort or do massage, or personal training. For example, you might recognize Anthony from his films: https://rentmasseur.com/AnthonySD All that to say, there is a lot of fierce competition here among providers. We may be a smaller city relative to NYC, LA and others, but we have no lack of attractive working men. Arguably the *quality* massage talent is lacking. We have lots of rub and tug guys who get by seeing one and done clients. There are a just a handful of good masseurs. For escorts, we are spoiled for choice. Lots of those. There’s what we like to call the “sunshine tax”, which means the cost of loving is very high, but wages across the board remain relatively very low in comparison to the high cost of living. This year SD is ranked the most expensive city to live in the US, topping even SF, Miami and NYC. Most years prior it was ranked below those. People move here because they love being here and are willing to sacrifice some aspect of their standard of living for the trade off of enjoying the less tangible benefits of living in SD. Having access to beautiful beaches, nice weather, the laid back attitude, lots of metropolitan institutions, and a thriving economy, among many perks of living here. NYC metro is also very expensive, so it may not matter if you’re comparing the two, but keep in mind business is challenging anywhere you go. You have to master your craft and how you do business. After that, you can go almost anywhere that makes sense and do well.

Do what you want. It’s waaay harder than it looks. It’s difficult to do this part time or have a casual attitude about it. If the only reason you’re considering being a provider is to hire more frequently, I would suggest seeking out many other alternative side hustles that won’t take such a huge toll on you emotionally, your time, or your personal sex life. The last thing I want to do at the end of my day is hire. Find what you’re good at, what you like, and what you can do better than most other people. Maybe that’s being a provider. For most people, it’s something else. Success in this biz demands commitment, learning, sacrifice, self awareness, and a healthy dose of emotional maturity. You can’t half ass those things or gain them overnight. Experience matters. The learning curve is shallow, as in: it takes a lot of time and experience to learn and get really good. The curve gets steeper later. You learn more and get better at a faster rate, but not without the slow, long struggle of the “shallow” part of the learning curve first. Good luck in whatever you end up doing!

I called to ask for a few yards of rock. Me: “I need something with an average size between 5” and 9”.” Vendor: “We only have 3” or less.” Me: “It’s a perfectly reasonable request…”