Simon Suraci

Yes, this definitely happens. Doing more for a client but charging the same is quite common. Better this scenario than charging differently for the same service based on age/looks/etc, I suppose. Neither is good though. I strive to deliver excellence to every client. I used to advertise student and youth discounts, not because I prefer those clients (I find them less reliable on average), but because I was trying to expand by diversifying my client base. Over time I have come to realize that my client demographics skew older no matter what I do and that younger men and students typically don’t hire for a lot of understandable reasons, chiefly among them being cost. Even with a discount, my services are too expensive for the average student or youth 18-25. The few that do hire me will pay my regular rate anyway, so it doesn’t matter. No more discounts. My client age demographics transition along a bell curve starting with a pretty shallow slope from 25 to 35 and then steepens a lot at 40+. 30 somethings make up a decent chunk, maybe as much as the 70 something bunch. Very few clients are under 22, but I have them once in a while. I had a 19yo twink massage client some months back. He was a barista, and had seriously among the largest cocks I have ever seen…crazy. I digress. My typical client is in his 50s at the top of the curve, with plenty of 40s and 60s on either side making up the camel hump shape, and then it tapers back down in the 70+ category, and then shallows quite precipitously in the 80+ category. Since most clients are over 40 and under 70, any provider or masseur that isn’t comfortable with that should seek a new career. The twenty something hottie on Grindr is unlikely to sustain your living, and certainly not if you discount. It’s ok to relish the pleasure of working on someone you find attractive, but a good provider never lets it get away from him. It’s still all about the client, not about you getting something out of it besides money. Professionals know that and approach their work accordingly. The others advertise “fit” discounts and the like. Avoid those. It’s a sign of a less professional provider.

This especially rings true in my architecture career. Clients are notoriously insensitive to scope creep and demanding a lot more than whatever is in the contract. The really egregious offenders we would still work with but increase our fees. I take the same approach as @BenjaminNicholas but rarely have to, and never due to how someone looks or for something out of their control.

No, I do not charge differently. Unprofessional providers cherry pick and/or charge differently for each client based on their personal preferences. This is a service with value. It takes the same time and resources regardless of how the client looks. I am making the client my focus. I cum in the way he wants, when he wants, if he wants. Providers who treat this work like paid Grindr will not last long. I have hot clients and hideous ones and everyone else who is mostly in between. Doesn’t matter. I charge the same. @Balthazar I am sad to hear that some providers would choose to not see you or perform poorly for you because you’re black. That leaves money on the table. It makes no sense. We still live in a world with systemic racism and cultural bias and it’s frustrating. Hiring should not be one of the ways these ongoing problems manifest, but apparently it is. Some of my black clients have mentioned their race when contacting me and asked if I am ok seeing them. It saddens me because I know they are asking because they have faced discrimination in the past. I ensure them I see everyone and have experience with people of many different races. Their money is all the same to me, whatever color they are. I want their business. Hiring is about having experiences with people you want to spend time with, not about appealing to someone like it’s a hookup based on personal preferences (which includes racist biases). The true professionals understand this and see everyone. You deserve a true professional when you hire. A true professional would never reject you or treat you differently because of your race. Good on you for testing things to see if you’re engaging a problem provider. You don’t want to waste your time with someone who has hangups. It just makes me sad that you have to ask. It shouldn’t have to be that way, but I get why you do.

Anyone looking for this scenario in a place where our paths may cross, PM me. Just saying!

Underpromise, overdeliver. Works well in business, and in this business too.

I’m with you here. I would honestly rather not know. If I am doing my job well, I don’t need the information. If anything, it’s a distraction. Part of what the client is paying for is for me to be something and someone to him that he doesn’t have to bother attracting on his own. The client is paying for the experience of being cared for, listened to, and serviced in the way he wants, without having to appeal to whatever private preferences I have. It’s like clients create more work for themselves by offering to pay and place pressure on themselves to “ensure” they appeal to me by over sharing. A good guy won’t let on that you’re not his cup of tea. His job is to make it seem as though you are. You will never know, and it’s better that you don’t. The longer I work in this industry, the broader my scope of personal preferences become. There’s something beautiful in everyone. For massage appointments, the weight limit of my massage table is relevant and finite, but I rarely have to turn someone away. My table holds 500+ lbs. Maybe I am not climbing on the table with a 400 pounder, but the client can certainly fit, no problem. Even when they exceed the limit, I make it work on another surface. Many of you already know I hate giving massages on a surface other than a pro table, but for clients who can’t fit, I am extra accommodating. Generally, clients are pretty honest when they describe themselves, if they do at all.

I’ve never heard this either. Credit bureaus want to see that you have paid off debts over time like cars and houses and other loans. Also really important is the ratio of credit you use in a given period vs how much total credit you have. Making payments on time is key, whether or not you carry a balance. Longevity and number of accounts is helpful too. Re: points and Amex… Good for you setting automatic bill payments with your credit card. I do the same. Amex charges merchants up the ass in processing fees though. That’s one of the reasons you get such generous points and why some merchants won’t accept Amex. Costco, for instance won’t accept Amex. Remember that when hiring or supporting a local business you care for using your card to pay. Lots of clients in this industry pay cash anyways, so there’s not much I can grumble about. Still, those points come directly out of merchant pockets and indirectly back into your own pockets via points benefits. When you use Amex (and other cards with point benefits) to pay me, I am essentially subsidizing your appliance purchases by getting less of the face value money you paid me. I would rather you pay for your own vacations and goods than tax me for it. But that’s just me. Policies and fees vary between credit card processors. It matters more in some cases and not at all in others. I accept Amex and try not to think about it very much. After all, I would rather have your business with a small chunk taken out than not have the business at all!

In other words, it’s all in his head. Placebos are effective because they prompt expectations. Kind of like inflation. Expecting it to happen causes it to happen. Although let’s be clear: nothing is being inflated in this scenario. It’s all blood. 😉

No credit card debt. My Jeep is paid off. Mortgages are another story…

I don’t think your hustler friend intentionally had a long con approach going on. If he did, he was really bad at it. Money should have been his primary motivation, but it sounds like it wasn’t and that something in his life changed over time and he became resentful or desperate or had other problems develop unrelated to you - and then he turned on you by directing whatever frustration or crisis he had toward you. If he were really playing his relationship with you to his full advantage, he should have been getting a good return on investment early, often, and well into the future by charging you his rates and reciprocating with his friendship. But then again, there’s nothing deceptive or unethical about that. That’s just good client development. It doesn’t have to be phony either. I have genuine connections with certain clients and they still hire me. I spend time off the clock in a friend capacity because I genuinely value their friendship and like them and care about them. Those are the exceptions though. I don’t have the bandwidth to maintain that kind of relationship or offer that kind of time for most of my clients. I don’t think the OP did anything wrong. The escort handled the whole situation poorly, to his own detriment, and sadly, also to yours. Communication and boundaries are important, in this case defining what the client should be paying, for what, and when, and what the client can expect in exchange. Any resentment the escort had over unpaid texting and talking is on himself. It’s up to him to draw appropriate boundaries around his time. It sounds like there was some level of genuine platonic connection and that got way too messy when mixing with a hiring dynamic. Best to define the relationship and the boundaries and all will be fine. When something is no longer working, it’s better to change the relationship or otherwise end it. It’s difficult to move on from something like this, but I wish you the best as you make an effort to do so.

I find her funny. And she’s a strong ally. At least she makes us feel something, react, and gets us talking. Good art does that. I won’t include her infamous political stunt in that assessment, but her body of work overall is remarkable. For however you feel about her, better or worse, she’s an incredible talent and one of many women to defy the conventions and limitations of an historically male-dominated profession. She’s been through a lot over the years. I wish Kathy peace and happiness.

A stiff mast will raise all butts…I mean boats…or a surging tide will lift them or something, I can never remember the saying 😛

I don’t use it, but other providers I know use it regularly, both older and younger than me. Never knock a provider for using what he knows works well for him…to your ultimate benefit and satisfaction. He’s doing this for your sake. Clients are preoccupied with how they look. Honestly sometimes it has a lot less to do with looks and body type. Sometimes you’re just busy taking more than one or two clients a day and subject to human emotions and life stuff gets in the way. Maybe ADHD for some. Performance anxiety plagues a few guys I know, and I have had my fair share of it in years past. Sometimes performance anxiety is even worse when you have an attractive client. Problems getting and maintaining an erection is not always about the client or how he looks. Chemistry goes a long way. You still have to get aroused naturally. Viagra/cialis etc just help you maintain an erection more easily once you have it hard. Maybe it helps you get hard more easily as you physically and mentally get yourself there, but it can’t make you get hard without stimulus, as in the case of injectables.

I’m a masseur and an escort. For incall massage, I answer the door naked. I massage naked. Seems to work well for most. For escort clients, I tend to wear a jockstrap or other sexy item for the client to enjoy “unwrapping” however they wish, like a present. I wear whatever is appropriate for a public meet or outcall. Street clothes, nice restaurant or date attire, swimsuit for the beach or pool, whatever the situation calls for. Once in a while I get a request to wear something specific for either massage or escort work. If I don’t already have the item(s), it’s on the client to acquire it in my size and bring it. I’ve been burned too many times by clients asking for something really specific. I purchase the item(s) to fulfill their request, only to have them cancel last minute or no-show. So I don’t do that anymore. One guy likes me to wear a backwards baseball hat (and nothing else). I indulge him.

Ask for what you want to fulfill your fantasy. A good provider will lean into the dynamic you want. If he can’t entertain it, keep asking others until you find the right one.

Considering the relative anonymity of the forums I figure there is no safer or more appropriate space to share.

That sucks. Only some of their viewers are interested in viewing football, whereas all of their viewers have interests spanning the rest of their rotating library. Everyone now has to pay more to subsidize the portion who view sports? I’m out.

I use email too. A few of my clients prefer it for privacy and anonymity, and the ability to compartmentalize their hiring. To @BuffaloKyle’s point, there are several more current ways to accomplish the same thing. Some people are comfortable operating functionally in the early aughts for the rest of their life. Fine. Texting is best for me today. One day, twenty years from now, texting will be passé. So it goes.

Starting a new topic spinoff from the one below. Since this is a minority niche interest and demonized by many, it may very well sit here for a while. That’s ok. Relevance is more important than popularity. I searched existing related topics, both open and closed. None cover findom specifically from the perspective of a client hiring findom providers. This question is for clients who have real life personal experience hiring findom providers. Others with no actual experience (but a lot of opinions), this topic is NOT for you. I’m interested in clients who can speak from direct experience. Not articles about some scary findom experience someone else had. Not your neighbor’s positive experience. Not discussions of why it’s bad for identity theft, or unsafe, etc. This is not the place for assumptions about clients, judgements, or kink shaming. This is for real clients who enjoy this interest, who have hired providers to engage it, and are willing to share. Clients with no direct experience (the vast majority of you here) who are ready to start listing all the reasons why they look down on findom providers, their clients, or are afraid of findom provider experiences: I hear you, I see you. Now please calm yourself, sit down, and yield the digital floor to clients with real first hand experiences, both positive and negative. Here’s what I want to know: How did you find your provider(s)? - Did you use any specialized kink platforms like Recon or others? - Did you approach providers who did not list findom as an option, or only those who list findom on their ads? What made you choose your provider? How did you ask for what you wanted? Did you clearly, and without feeling any sense of coercion, consent to a findom roleplay scenario before your provider began engaging in your desired role play? What boundaries, if any, did you set with your provider before engaging his services? Did your provider violate any of your clearly communicated and agreed-upon boundaries? Did your provider force you to do anything to which you did not consent? Which methods of contact did you use throughout the process, and why? Phone, text, email, app, etc. Did you meet in person? If so, where, and how often? What was your experience like overall? How did the experience make you feel? Was the exchange worthwhile? How did your experience differ from your expectations? Would you engage your provider again? Would you seek out a different provider for similar services in the future? Where do you recommend others with similar interests seek out professional, experienced, reliable findom providers?

Understood. I don’t currently and won’t in the future list findom on my ads. I will continue to work as I do now, by only engaging clients who specifically ask for it and who give clear consent (without any coercion on my part) before starting to engage the client in any findom roleplay scenario. At the end of the day, that’s all it is to me: roleplay by client request and by client consent. I’m still curious to hear answers to these. Maybe it would be better addressed in a new thread:

Many providers would love to list out our rates and services more explicitly on our ads. US laws and backwards attitudes unfortunately prevent us from doing so. A few of us have personal websites to list a lot more info. The extra step of having to visit another website can be a barrier for a lot of clients, even with a clear hyperlink. Some manage to click through and get the info they need. I have a website. You can read between the lines on there and see rates clearly listed. I also prompt clients on my ads to text me for an expanded menu. I send it to those who ask, without any pressure to book or interact further if they don’t want to. It’s the easiest way for me to share explicit information and rates without being censored on a third party platform. I get why clients don’t always want to move to text right away, so I do the best I can with a given platform’s communication system. Sometimes I have to use coded language or other workarounds to communicate on a restrictive platform. Adam4Adam, for example, in my massage ad description blocks out the word “rape” in “Therapeutic” to yield “The****utic”. It’s crazy. In a text, I can talk about sexual acts, or body parts, or even non-sexual things without the crazy censor filters. I can express rates and services quite directly, like: Sex Work $300/one hour $500/two hours

Of course @starman05. You know where to find me! Comic Con is a blast. San Diego is great any time of the year.

The extra $3 for ad free viewing is lame. They already make so much freaking money. I am dropping Prime because I don’t use any of the other services besides ad-free streaming and rarely do I truly need 2-day Prime shipping - when the option is available for a given item at all. The free streaming was the value proposition to me because the way I see it, my annual subscription fee is essentially pre-paying my shipping. Hopefully I order enough stuff to justify the value for myself, but not every year works out that way. The one thing that made Prime valuable to me is now going to cost me an extra $36/yr. No thanks. Boycott until they offer ad-free streaming with Prime again. With so many streaming competitors, I can get my entertainment fix elsewhere using only one or two platform subscriptions. I already use VUDU to watch movies and shows à la carte that I can’t get elsewhere. Why be limited to the content offered on a given platform? When I have to pay for the specific content I want anyway, I may as well get a wider selection.

I specifically offer this as a service. I call it cuddle therapy. It’s intentionally not sex or sexual, just a calm, intimate, body to body experience for those who want that part and don’t need the sex part and don’t want to pay my escort fee. Very few people book this but some do really enjoy it. I’ve had some curious straight guys enjoy this low pressure situation, and some gentleman who didn’t want sex or massage for whatever reason but really needed the touch and intimacy. It’s a beautiful thing. I am one of these masseurs, and it makes a lot of sense. It’s more comfortable and the client gets the best of both. I offer a massage / sex work combo service and price it accordingly. Then I have my escort rates which typically do not include massage, but can at times include a massage “scene” where the client wants and understands the fantasy context and doesn’t expect a significant amount of serious massage time or high quality therapy. The focus here is arousal and basically foreplay rather than actually trying to work the muscle groups for therapeutic purposes. I break it all out in these ways so that clients can know and get exactly what they want and pay appropriately for each service. It’s pretty clear with me what you’re getting. That’s why I get all bothered when clients book a lower priced service and expect/demand a higher price level of service. It’s not about me being able or willing to provide. It’s about them respecting me. I want clients to value my respective services accordingly.

Wow! Interesting. Thanks for sharing. I’m sure all are interested in the ‘y’ axis values! Good on you to omit those.