Simon Suraci

I offer these types of discounts, but not for those reasons. Active duty military, students, and youth types are typically unable to hire, or less likely to hire because of their budgets. By offering specific discounts, I get a few more clients here and there that I otherwise wouldn’t. By the way, not every young guy is attractive. I have plenty of very unattractive younger types, and even if they are pretty on the outside, some have very ugly attitudes or psychological problems and whatnot. Some are just plain jerks. Occasionally you get a gem of a person in a beautiful body. That’s the best. It’s still work, and I’m performing a service, not for my pleasure, but for their enjoyment. They pay just like everyone else, even when they have a pretty face or a rocking bod.

I suggest we see what data surfaces and revisit when the new review section is out of beta mode and live. Reviews collect info in a consistent way. After enough time a sizable sample data set will give us a clearer view.

@RadioRob is actually working on addressing this issue now in a new reviews section. See the pinned topics in The Deli and Spas and Masseurs sections. He’s creating value fields where you can see provider and masseur posted rates and compare it to what clients actually paid, and even what they tipped. In theory, if clients are posting truthfully what went down, you will have a much clearer view into the information you mention. Alas, it’s in development, but coming soon, and then improved versions to follow after that still. Correct, I mean advertised or quoted prices. To break it down, I mean the price a provider quotes you when you text them to inquire about a service and they respond with $XXX which is consistent with any advertised prices (if any) on a platform that allows their pricing to be posted. We may be splitting hairs here, but the word “asking” price implies any provider is open to negotiations, as if there is an “or best offer” attached at the end. At least that’s how I consider the word “asking”, like a house could sell for under asking price, although I recognize that’s not an apples to apples comparison. Some providers are open to negotiation, however most are not. I advise against clients initiating a negotiation because in my opinion I agree with others that it’s tacky, or at best a waste of both parties’ time. You don’t have to listen to my suggestion though. The provider is a big boy. He doesn’t have to engage a negotiation, and he need not be rude or blast off to the client about how insulted he is. At best he can politely decline. At worst, ignore. Or maybe he is one of the few who will entertain offers. If you don’t care about being tacky (and you don’t have to care about it!) nothing is stopping you. Negotiate to your heart’s content with those who will engage. But don’t be surprised or offended when he says some version of ‘no’, or ghosts you. If the provider initiates a negotiation, by all means go for it. My experience tells me that way more often than not, a provider will not go there. If he wants more business, he will lower his advertised rates and quote you those rates. If he’s happy with the amount of business he does, he will not. Occasionally he may do a one-off negotiation, so you never know. There are no rules. I’m no lawyer so I have no authority to say with much confidence, but I’ll share how I think about it. If neither party is willing or able to enforce such a contract (verbal or written) in a court of law, it is, for practical purposes, an unenforceable contract…due to the fact that neither party is engaging in a legal business activity in the first place.

We want this too! Fully agree it helps smooth out the whole process for both parties. Thank you @Jarrod_Uncut for emailing RentMen to request this change. I have low expectations for RentMen to change, and if so, any time soon. Honestly we want to be as transparent and straightforward as possible regarding rates with our clients. We can always be better about attitude and patience when clients ask, but the problem here (specific to RentMen) is a system over which we have no control and the way it’s set up makes it more difficult than necessary for clients to get the info they need upfront. If we could change it, we certainly would. Unfortunately, FOSTA-SESTA laws in the US heavily influence decisions at RentMen and other platforms and companies. Those decisions are symptomatic of the cause, which is policy. In light of all this, we might better direct our energies and frustrations into making state and federal policy changes with our voting decisions and other political action. I’ll stop there to avoid getting too far into political topics.

For providers, I disagree, the metrics do exist. Not on a stock exchange ticker, but it’s knowable with even a cursory amount of research. Experienced clients have a good sense for what providers in their area are charging. Asking half a dozen to a dozen providers will give you a good sense of going rates. If you’ve hired occasionally in a certain city/region for a year or more, you will most certainly have this knowledge. Also, you can quickly gauge on the websites that list rates (not on RentMen, we beat that dead horse) and compare those numbers to the providers you contact. Here on COM is a good place to ask around too. The baseline for rates is pretty easy to gauge, even if you’re starting from scratch with no experience hiring. I have to imagine with all the texts I get asking for rates that the knowledge goes somewhere in potential clients’ minds to compare with others they are texting. I discuss rates with provider friends and collaborators, so I have a good idea of what they are quoting their clients. For instance, in the Dallas/Ft Worth metro area, for one hour of full service, it runs $250 on the lower end to $300 average, and $400+++ on the high end for outliers, well known porn stars, the delusional, the fewer client strategy types, and such. You can find lower and higher numbers than these of course, but they are the minority. The baseline in my area is $300. I can’t imagine this baseline is going to be wildly different in other cities and regions because many providers frequently tour across the country, but I know it varies from place to place and over time. I recognize many factors affect pricing and don’t mean to oversimplify, but a baseline ballpark is not that crazy or difficult to identify. Someone who can afford $250 can afford $350. It’s just a matter of who is the right provider for you within the baseline range, and do you feel like an experience with them offers a good value for you in light of the price. That’s what baffles me sometimes when a client is obsessed with pricing. The more important issue is if you’re going to drop a few hundred dollars on an experience with anyone remotely close to the baseline, it should be with the right provider, not the cheapest, or the one you like who happens to be $25 or $50 less than the other one you like. It’s basically the same at that point. Tipping decisions alone make those a trivial pricing comparison. Tying back to the OP question…the baseline is known (or easily knowable with the smallest bit of research) and that’s why it’s annoying when clients ask our rates and say it’s too expensive…because we know what our peers charge and it’s not that different from our own prices. It’s like the client is saying “escorts” are too expensive for me (which is their problem), and instead framing it as “you” are too expensive for me (implying it’s the provider’s problem). To your point, the overall economy certainly plays a role. I will leave the impending recession discussion for the finances section. Not all agree that. In recessions, luxury goods and services remain in demand because people with money are less affected. They still want their spa treatments, vacations, and they’re still horny AF. If anything, recessions are exactly the time one most wants to escape reality, if only temporarily, even when you can’t really afford it. More so for those that still can. Regarding my analogy to the construction industry, those metrics do exist and are known to both parties. Construction project costs are well documented by project type, location, and year started/completed. These are the baseline for pricing proposed projects and submitting bids. Prices of course vary from the baseline when considering all manner of factors, but the baseline for a comparable project is known. One might consider the concept is like comparable properties or “comps” in the real estate industry, at least for establishing a baseline. If only “offers over asking” were a thing in this industry 😂 That, and financing 🤣

This is not the industry for that kind of mark up then negotiate down approach. Most everyone is charging 2-4 hundred dollars for an hour, most/average being 300 or less, depending on your area, almost never below $200. Massage is different, so I’m not considering that side for this discussion, just escort services. Providers are competing for your business. If they’re way overpriced compared to market, there’s a reason for it whether it be delusion, they’re new and lack experience, they are in extremely high demand, they’re “famous” like a currently popular porn star, they intentionally want fewer but higher paying clients, or they don’t really do this as their full time job and it’s just gravy money. The vast majority of guys fall closer to the average ranges. The outliers have their reasons. The value conversation is really more about what you’re getting for those hundreds than saving or spending 50 bucks above or below the average going rate in your area. If the service is exactly what you want and valuable to you and it’s with the right provider for you, win-win, I see no need to negotiate. If you can’t generally afford something in the hundreds of dollars for an escort service, you probably shouldn’t be hiring anyway. Better to save your money and rely on your hand until you do have the ability to hire exactly what you want at close to the going rates in your area. It’s one thing to be a street vendor selling a piece of furniture. It’s quite another to be an escort. I’ll consider it from the construction industry which is my background. The low bidder usually delivers lower quality, and/or demands change orders in the middle or at the end to give the client what they actually want in terms of quality or scope. With change orders, the total spend often ends up matching (or exceeding) the medium to higher bids quoted. If the low bid is a rigid number that the owner can’t exceed, for instance for financing reasons, the owner has to reduce scope somewhere to stay in their budget. In that case, the owner isn’t really getting what they want, but setting for low quality, or less product. You have a mismatch between services desired, and original price quoted. Someone is getting the job at some price, but the important question is: will the owner be happy with the results? It’s so much better to pay the prevailing price and get better service, no change orders, and a smooth process. It’s not worth the headache and penny pinching mentality to hire below market.

@RadioRob responding to your points: Review application content all good, approach makes sense to me. Massage table: item record Rates: your suggested price range values are good for the item record, which should be the advertised rate expressed as per one hour of massage service, for apples to apples comparisons. The reviewers can post in their text what the masseur actually quoted when they contacted him and specify the details. For example, 90 mins is XXX dollars which may be slightly different than 1.5 times the 60 minute massage rate. Agree with field description: "The price you agreed to at the time of booking" Multiple platform URLs would be nice to roll out in a later phase if it’s possible to develop. We need one platform URL field for starters. Payment methods: item record Massage equipment: item record, to state what is available, not necessarily what was used in a given session. Additional services: item record, by the same logic as massage equipment. ”Extras”: I agree we have to be very careful about how we word things and what information we share, how explicit it is. Let’s avoid compromising the masseurs. Personally, I think this type of information should be shared by private message only. YMMV concept applies to almost every masseur, so including extras specific fields places an unreasonable expectation (or implication) that a certain masseur will perform an “extra” service for every single client, every single time. We all know that isn’t the case but it would read that way. I would not include explicit things like “Blowjob: Y/N”, and certainly not publicly. It takes very little to become a member and then view the content in a members only area, so that is a razor thin veil. If master threads are a thing, maybe that would be the best place to share extras info at a very high level, and keep the explicit descriptions to private messages, much as the forum operates now. My view is the item records and attached masseur reviews should document all the basic information, things that can be Y/N, 1-5 stars, check boxes and drop down menu fields. The more nuanced information (like extras) requires more context, detail, and explanation to have much meaning. Forcing members to private message one another for certain privileged types of information fosters more relationship building, trust, and community. It also puts the info in context and allows for nuance and explanation.

I see no reason why a provider should be bothered by the rates question, especially if we’re talking exclusively about RentMen only, and no other ad websites. Lots of guys post on more than one site and often we don’t know which one you’re viewing unless you state as much. In this case, you do. Most of the time we get a random text from a new contact phone number that says: ”rates?” In which case the provider has to go fishing to figure out what ad the client viewed, and that could be 2-6 profiles, sometimes more. Or just assume the client viewed RentMen and respond with their escort rates. That’s not hard. Quick aside: “RM” can easily be misconstrued to mean RentMasseur instead of RentMen. Spell it out because a lot of guys are on both. The rates question is frequent. I even have a note on my phone to copy/paste easily into a text response. If the rate is not in the ad, and their ad does NOT direct you elsewhere for the information, go for it. Perfectly reasonable to ask. I think the providers who get bothered are the ones who provide the information (or a method to view the info somewhere else) but their clients don’t read it. As for the whole questioning rates issue or a client asking for a lower rate, I think it’s perfectly reasonable for the provider to politely end the conversation. No need to engage in negotiation or haggling, unless the provider invites it. I don’t get that, personally, but sure, if they want to work for less, indulge them.

I’ve been on the site here and there for a year or two at a stretch. Not much luck meeting people so I gave up. Frankly, I’ve had more success meeting my peers/competitors on our advertising platforms and arranging trades from there. If more members were engaged I would give it another try. I enjoy a massage trade experience.

No, no, no….a mediocre top does this. And sadly so many bottoms settle for it. A GOOD top takes it to the next level by exploring positions, angles, varying tempo, intensity, depth, pulsing, side-to-side action, and pulling all the way out and plunging back in again. Not to mention all the foreplay possibilities. For an educational journey, read my expert rimming pocket guide! Plus all the fun you can have with gazing, stimulating nipples at the same time, holding his body in a certain way, slings…. It’s a full contact sport and a creative art. Topping (at least good topping) is quite involved, and very, very fun. It takes practice and experience to hit your stride. vs boring, mechanical straight-in-straight out a few pumps then cum. Ick! @CuriosityKilledTheCat no harm in exploring. I encourage you to try new things. Doesn’t mean you have to like them, but it just might open a world of pleasure and possibilities you never knew you needed in your life. Best to know, either way. I suggest any beginner top also try bottoming, at least a few times, even if he decides bottoming is not for him, just to understand what it feels like and how to make everything better for your bottom. Empathy and patience go a long way. You may want to hold off on that experience until you’re sure you even like topping by trying it out with a provider. Regardless, men of all orientations can benefit from prostate stimulation, not just in a sexual context (although that’s the most fun), but also for men’s health reasons. Also, it’s probably the best kind of orgasm you will ever have, if done right. It’s absolutely worth it to hire a provider for a no-pressure expert to help walk you through it. The tricky part is finding the right one who understands your needs and meets you where you are. I’m patient and understanding in that way and enjoy teaching. Pick out a few in your area and ask on the forums for input and recommendations. We are a wealth of crowd-sourced knowledge here.

Was working for a short while, then down again. Seems to be unstable, in and out. I’m in Dallas, if that matters.

This is true for RentMen. Even with VPN the ads that have rates at all are from five or more years ago, so they are not current reliable information. Newer ads since then do not have a place to list rates, so even with VPN, many of the ads will not list rates because they were never input in the first place. Not so for RentMasseur or MasseurFinder; they each list rates. RentMasseur gives the option for the provider to put “ask” instead of a dollar figure. I find this opaque and unnecessary, but other providers have their reasons. FriendBoy uses the term “score” and omits the dollar sign. Other sites may say “tribute”, “donation”, or what have you. Personal masseur and escort sites often list rates explicitly, like mine, @Jamie21’s or@Jarrod_Uncut’s. I refer clients to my website in my ad text, as do some others. RentMasseur does not allow us to post URLs directly into our ads, but they do allow us to post it in our blog, which is a tab on the profile. It’s an extra step, unfortunately. My ad text directs clients to the blog, where they can link to my website and find all the relevant info clearly displayed at their fingertips, including pricing, service descriptions, reviews, and schedule availability. It also is an automatic self-booking tool. Seriously, the easiest thing ever. Getting clients to the personal website is a huge hurdle, but they do find it when they actually read the ad. Many don’t read the ad, so I do the whole answering 20 questions bit, see the client, they like my work, and then I send them a link to my site for their next visit. That’s when the lightbulb flicks on in their mind and they book me much more conveniently the next time. The savvy ones read the ad and don’t even need to text me for their first session unless it’s for a question not already answered in my ads or personal site. Those questions I am more than happy to answer. All the other questions I answer as a matter of general customer service. Not begrudgingly, but in the hopes my patience wins over enough of them to justify the time spent. Clients don’t read ads. You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink. And then the horse says to you, “I’m thirsty.”

I thought this was just a fact, not a controversial statement…lol. I have Dolly and Whitney in my playlists, some originals and some remixes/collabs. Not that song though, it’s not great for massage IMO. I love them. I am so gay! Fun facts: Elvis requested rights to sing this song. Dolly passed. It was a good business decision. She wrote the song when going through a rough professional breakup with Porter Wagoner, who sued her for breach of contract, which she paid back in the following years. Chump change in light of her legendary long solo career.

@RadioRob Thank you for your hard work putting the review platform together! Great base format. Here are a few input items, in no particular order of preference or importance: 1. Shower available: Y/N 2. Home city (or “primary” city?) 3. Differentiate between massage “modality” as in sports, deep tissue, Lomi Lomi, Swedish, Reiki, etc and “sensual / erotic” as a separate category altogether, however you want to label it. It’s nice to know what the masseur does apart from anything erotic or sensual. Erotic/sensual is no a replacement for a primary modality as such. The modality could be a check all that apply item. 4. Massage table: Y/N. It’s important to know this. If the answer is no, the implication is that the massage is on a bed, couch, mat/floor, and these are generally inappropriate and unprofessional ways to give a massage, although it happens frequently. Nice to know the level of professionalism and this is one of the biggest base indicators. Applies to incall or outcall, so no need to differentiate. I agree with @Jamie21 5. Previous aliases, similar comment to those in the Deli thread. 6. Rates are a touchy subject. My two cents: let the client put rate/fee info in their review content, since there are so many reasons why a rate or total “fee” may vary apples to oranges with another masseur. The client can elaborate if desired. 7. This may be unpopular, but a field to indicate how much a client tipped may be helpful to show others what is normal, or conversely, if the reviewer is not tipping, under tipping or overtipping, and the review content can support why. 8. Skill level: 1-5 stars 9. Reliability: 1-5 stars 10. Formal training: Y/N 11. Responsiveness: 1-5 stars 12. Ability to post multiple platform URLs for quick reference, such as MasseurFinder, RentMasseur, RentMen, FriendBoy, MintBoys, shared couple/collaborator profiles etc. 13. Payment methods accepted: check all that apply: Cash, Zelle, Venmo, Credit Cards, Apple Pay, CashApp, PayPal, etc. 14. Massage equipment (besides table): check all that apply. Theragun, hot towels, aromatherapy, candles, hot stones. A little help from others on more options would be nice. I mention theragun because some guys rely on these too heavily as a way to not actually massage the client. Why bother hiring? Some use it only as a supplement which is fine. 15. Music: 1-5 stars 16. Additional services: check all that apply. Body Scrubs. Grooming. Esthetician services (covers a fairly wide range from waxing to facials). Others help me out by adding more ideas. I do body sculpting (laser lipo) but I know that’s much less common. 17. Massage products used. Same comment as @Jamie21 but I would include a simplified drop-down list: natural oil, massage cream, massage gel, baby oil (to out the bad ones who actually use this!), and “other”.

Agree. There’s what a provider is willing or able to take in to make his life work for himself, and there’s what the market will bear. Price adjusts accordingly and somewhere between the two the rate lands there. The rest of the fine tuning is the provider determining his own value, and perhaps a smidge of marketing.

Highly recommend Edras. He moved pre-covid to La Habra. Miss that guy. It was not uncommon for his boyfriend to be in the other room as he worked. Never bothered me, but see how maybe that would be a negative for some. Haven’t seen him in La Habra yet, hope to someday.

I reached out to Anthony for a massage in San Diego pre-covid, several times in fact, months apart. No response, ever. Maybe the number he advertised at the time was old? Never said anything creepy or weird, did not send a photo or anything, just said I’d like to schedule a massage for xx date, do you have availability, something like that. Nothing. Puzzling. Curious if anyone has seen him recently. And yes…he has some really good videos out there from his studio days. Sigh.

Maybe a few people with really scaly skin, but haven’t jumped to any conclusions. Seemed nice enough…

Wow, lots of mental health issues. Makes me sad. Then the politics issue. Urggg, can’t people keep this to themselves? We’re here for massage, not to vote. I feel like I’ve dodged many a bullet getting massages from by-and-large normal, stable, professional people. Have yet to run into any lizard people. 😂

What a bunch of hotties here 🤠 I hired DTX_Jock (Grant) for massage only. He’s stunning. Drop dead gorgeous. I cannot recommend him for massage, but if I were in the market to hire him for more, I definitely would. FYI he’s a bottom. Good luck…let us know who you pick and how it goes!

Play nice y’all. If we can’t exchange ideas and opinions here, where can we? It’s ok to disagree on stuff. @Jarrod_Uncut gives us a less filtered view into a lot of provider experiences and concerns you wouldn’t hear otherwise. I don’t agree with all of his approaches, policies, and opinions, but I share some of his same frustrations. Take all of our contributions with a grain of salt.

We providers can have the clearest, most straightforward, well communicated rates and policies on our ads. That’s ideal. Doesn’t matter. There will always be a percentage of prospective clients asking bird brain questions they can easily answer for themselves by checking the website or reviewing the ad content. The question asking behavior doesn’t necessarily mean the client has bad intentions, or that they’re trying to play a game or negotiate for a more favorable rate. Maybe some are, but a lot of people are simply not that good at reading the information and need some hand holding. Even so, if they decide not to proceed for whatever reason, that’s their prerogative. If you get angry at them for asking (admittedly) an unnecessary question, you’re alienating them from ever hiring you in the future. I agree, it’s annoying wasting time answering questions to which clients already have the answers if they bothered to look. A considerable number of these question askers follow through and become clients, and of those, some become regulars/repeat. You have to sift through a lot of silt and muck to find a few gold nuggets. It’s tedious work, and not every pan yields a valuable reward. Customer service is never glamorous or enjoyable, but it’s a necessary part of running a good business.

I agree. I assume the same when providers don’t post rates, like they want the client to engage and then be more likely to book if they are already in a conversation, even if the rate is too high. There’s nothing wrong with the client asking and saying sorry, I can’t afford it and you both move on. Clients ask questions all the time about stuff clearly posted to the ad. It’s just people being dumb, not reading it. That’s what people do. It’s just part of the biz. Politely respond and move on. Not everyone can afford you. A few possibilities: Providers may set rates differently for each client, both for good reasons and bad ones, usually bad. Providers offer multiple rates for different levels of service and duration. For example, a BDSM session is X, vanilla full service is Y, oral only is Z. Massage or combination massage/escort is another rate. Maybe topping has a different rate than bottoming or vers play. Overnights and weekends may have their own rates. In that case the provider needs to know what the client wants before he can appropriately quote the rate or total fee. Rate fluctuation based on travel city. Someone in San Francisco may be more likely to pay a higher rate than someone in Kansas City. Sometimes a provider feels this out, sometimes he knows what his rate is in different areas and doesn’t want to give the impression he is a certain rate across the whole country. The better ones maintain a constant rate regardless.

Thank you! Glad the system provides for vetting and ensuring all the key information is complete and input correctly up front before an item is added.