Simon Suraci

Lol this happens with my clients all the time. Total tops come to me with an agenda and find something missing in their life they never knew they wanted so badly or could enjoy so much. All this comes from embracing a spirit of exploration, openness, and feeling out the chemistry. With the right time (no rushing) you get a chance to nurture the right atmosphere. Sometimes it happens over multiple sessions. One of the benefits of repeat/ongoing hires is building on the trust, understanding, and chemistry you’ve already established.

The only thing limiting you is your own creativity! I like to encourage clients to imagine what they would want for longer sessions. Massage, working out together, playing video games, shopping, meals, Jamie’s bathhouse idea…the possibilities are endless. Then of course there’s always the simple cuddle and conversation approach, which is always nice. Clients vary in their sexual and non-sexual needs and desires. What works for one client in an hour may work better for you in two. You might enjoy quick (and perhaps multiple) rounds, or going for a long stretch at a time with a lot of buildup, and perhaps some breaks, or alternating back and forth between activities. Some clients really like extended edging, for example, which takes a considerable amount of session time. Sometimes things change in a session. You thought you wanted one thing, but emotionally and physically you feel like doing something else in the moment, so you pivot, and that’s ok. A good pro Iwill roll with it. The most important thing is that you’re getting the experience you want and that you’re satisfied, no matter how long or short the session. The key is to know yourself well enough to budget enough time, which gives you the emotional space to fully enjoy the experience. These things cost a lot of money. You want to savor it. There is no one-size-fits all. You’re in total control of the session and responsible for communicating your needs to your provider. Doing so maximizes the value of your hiring time.

Your experience is common. Escort service is by the hour (or portion thereof). Masseurs charge by half hour because it’s intense, skilled, focused physical work versus a conversation and cuddle lasting 15 mins longer or shorter. That’s not to say I think an escort appointment going over by 5 mins merits charging a full extra hour, but we work to the client’s satisfaction. I take cues from the client. When he’s satisfied and ready to leave, all good. If he wants the full time, it’s also perfectly good. When things start to drift much beyond the scheduled time, I gently signal that it’s either time to wrap up, or offer to extend the session if I have availability to extend.

Here is a source. Their poppers are milder than the more well known labels. The payment process was a little roundabout, but you can obtain poppers pretty easily online. I tried the linked brand below hoping to actually enjoy poppers. They were milder than most but for me it was a bust. I hate poppers of any strength or brand, period. Taking a hit makes me go limp, lightheaded (in a bad way) and feel all kinds of sick. More power to the large segment of the community that enjoys using them. In person, in sex shops, you have to ask for “popcorn”, at least here in California. I’m assuming there’s a legal reason they can’t explicitly use the common street name. Technically, poppers are still illegal, but still widely available everywhere. The laws regarding poppers are not strictly enforced, and in some pockets of the US not enforced at all. Double Scorpio Poppers - Solvent Cleaner Source! - Double Scorpio Poppers SCORPIOPOPPERS.COM Double Scorpio Poppers. Taking the world by storm. Scorpio Poppers the authentic choice for Double...

Yup. Use the correct terms. We’ve discussed this and closely related topics elsewhere. Here are a couple relevant posts:

Sides are a minority, but they exist. I have some side clients. Not every man interested sexually and/or romantically in other men wants to have penetrative sex. Often they only like oral play, or sometimes not even that, but find other ways to be intimate and sexual. The reasons for their preferences are both wide and complex. It’s not always about trauma or avoiding STIs. Some just find anal sex to be generally gross. For some, it’s a practical matter rather than a preference. For example, he can’t bottom, for medical reasons. Or he can’t top, because he is a trans man and doesn’t enjoy strap-on play. Or like Jamie mentioned, his size makes it impractical to penetrate, even if he otherwise would want to.

I automate this process. Once the client confirms day, start time, and services, I book them in my booking system. Then the system works on my behalf days or even weeks later sending a reminder to the client with all the relevant details. That assumes I have an email or phone number, even if it’s a junk email or burner number. Some clients do not wish to share a contact method. I ask for it when confirming their appointment request details and most share one. For bookings coordinated 100% on other platforms, I sometimes remember to send a confirmation message the day before, or hours before their appointment. Sometimes I don’t. Most still show.

Answer to title question: yes. Every client, no, but most, yes. No masseur is obligated to provide a HE, but almost all clients want and expect one, especially from an independent masseur advertising on m4m platforms. Unless the masseur explicitly advertises “therapeutic only” or similar phrasing, with appropriate pricing to match, the norm is to provide some level of erotic elements. What those are and how far they go varies widely. I agree with @nycman’s post in almost every respect. Full service during a massage (i.e. penetration) demands escort pricing and client agreement on said pricing beforehand. Otherwise you’re leaving a lot of money and self respect on the table. Please don’t do this, for your sake, and for the sake of others in the profession who have to deal with incredibly unreasonable client expectations of us to provide escort service for a massage price. If you’re not skilled at massage, I recommend sticking to escort service. There’s nothing more disappointing than a massage from a provider who has no idea what he is doing. You can learn, of course, but until you develop your skills, I recommend not advertising massage.

Way back in the thread before any mention of the the tattoo, I noticed the forehead. I have nothing against face tattoos in general, but I sure as hell am going to see a red flag when someone willingly puts anything that could be immediately construed as violent or threatening on their face…even as a reference to a musical artist. Not everyone will get the reference. Even when they do, this particular tattoo isn’t very tasteful or attractive, in my subjective opinion. At best, distracting. At worst, unsettling. It demonstrates bad judgment. Say he didn’t have that horrid tattoo. His pics are all grimaces and frowns, when you even see his face at all, otherwise behind a sloppy camera-blocks-face selfie. Nothing professional, inviting, or alluring about that approach. Trashy vibe in general. In this case, what you see is exactly what you get. I never would have hired the guy. Aside on Houston: between Memphis and Houston, these two cities were where I felt the least safe so far. In fact, I stayed in a nice area of Montrose, the Houston “gayborhood”. A vagrant robbed one of my clients on his way out to his car after his appointment with me. My client tracked down the thief using using an apple tracking device and paid a ransom to get his valuables back. I had other troubles in Houston I won’t even get into here. Please, clients and providers alike, be extra careful and vigilant in Houston. It has a lot of shady characters. Even the nicer areas are vulnerable to crime. Use common sense no matter how professional and put together your guy is, but especially when your guy looks like this. I hate to say it, but sometimes a book cover does not belie its content.

I strongly suggest NOT doing this. When you have a firm cap on what you’re willing to spend, I suggest sticking to providers that advertise a figure within that cap. Sending photos and asking for a discount puts a good provider in an awkward position. First off, it makes you seem entitled. Not a good tone to start things. Second, if he agrees, he’s less motivated to provide you with the same level of service he normally would. You’re basically asking for subpar service. OR he’s providing the same or better service for less, but ONLY for clients he finds attractive. That’s not how this business works. That’s a sign of a bad provider. He doesn’t get it. This isn’t Grindr with money exchange. His needs and desires should not be the focus. It really shows when you have a guy who clearly has his own agenda and wants to get paid for it too. That makes for a bad client experience. It’s tolerable in a hookup, but not in a hire. When the photo with discount request scenario happens to me - and it does more frequently than I care for - you’re suggesting that you’re so attractive that the provider should perform a service to you for less because you presumably provide more non-tangible value to the provider than what you’re willing to pay, and you’re assuming the provider values said non-tangible benefit literally more than his livelihood. That’s a big ask. Fine for a hookup. Not fine when you’re working to pay your bills. For me, it’s the same work, the same time, and the same focus on client satisfaction. It doesn’t matter if you’re physically attractive or an oaf. I’m still making your pleasure the priority. Arguably, the less attractive client is often easier to please. Hygiene, communication, respect, and other things being equal, the more attractive clients can often be higher maintenance compared to less attractive clients. It just depends. I’ve worked with some really beautiful jerks in my time, and I much prefer good chemistry and mutual respect with an average or unattractive client. I’ve worked with some very attractive yet very good people too. You never know. It’s not all about looks. We spend the same hours before, during, and after your appointment devoted to bringing you the best. It behooves us to entertain clients who pay our full rates. Spending that same time on clients demanding to pay less is a disservice to our business and livelihood. We can hook up on our own time if we really want to, and the rules and dynamics are totally different when no money is involved. When you hire, you’re getting something of value, so please value it accordingly and respect us by doing so. If you want to hook up, try the apps. Your beauty will get you pretty far there, but remember people are flaky, selfish, disrespectful, shallow, impatient, impulsive, and mostly only considering their own needs. Hiring bypasses all that stuff. Providers offer inherent value in that regard. When you hire, you are asking someone to make YOU their priority and serve your needs, on your schedule, the way you see fit. If your provider enjoys the experience (good acting or genuine, you never need to know the difference), all the better, but his focus is on serving you to the best of his ability. A good provider gets that, and to provide a quality experience demands of a provider the same level of attention and care than he would deliver for a less attractive client. Therefore, he should be compensated the same.

I’m with you guys on the fake stuff. It’s easy to make fun of cartoonish exaggerated body enhancements on guys like these, but for some clients this is the total fantasy. There’s a niche market for it. More power to the providers who “fill” it!

Thanks @BeefyDude. I agree with your approach on time of day. If you’re leaving some sort of written notice that you’re trying to get in contact for a phone call, that helps A LOT. If you give times you are available, or confirm it’s ok to call back any time, that helps too. I would call back whenever I’m free in that case. I would apply the same courtesy you mentioned of calling at times that make sense i.e. not late in the late evening, early in the morning, or in the middle of the night. Keep in mind I also try to respect clients’ privacy. Each client has different privacy needs. You might be fine with a call back whenever I free up. Some clients do not want to receive unexpected calls for various reasons, so if it’s unclear or they request so, I would text them to confirm when they are free for a call. The same applies if the client reached out on RentMen Messenger or RentMasseur Messenger, email, etc. instead of text. If I see a single missed call - or even repeated missed calls, for that matter - from a non-contact without any voicemail, I would ignore or block the number assuming it’s spam, by default. This happens to me all the time and I have no way to know the difference. A voicemail or text message tells me that you’re a client asking for a call back, and I gladly do call back in that case.

All well and good, and I agree calls are great for seeing if there’s going to be a good connection, but if your man isn’t expecting your call and doesn’t pick up from an unknown contact on the first ring, would you pass him by? Let’s say he’s at, say, the gym where he can’t openly talk about explicit sexual details and rates for his services. Would you blame him for not picking up at that moment? More likely he’s with another client when you dial and he can’t pause a session to take a random call. Can you imagine if he did that with you during your session? I would be pissed. Same goes for when he is having a face to face conversation with someone. Maybe it’s late and he’s already asleep, or at his doctor’s office, or driving, or anywhere else that it would be inappropriate, unsafe, or rude to answer a call. What expectations do you have of a provider to answer your call? Anytime, anywhere, without notice? Or would you be ok asking ahead to schedule a time to call? Would an initial contact by email/messenger/texting be a total dealbreaker for you?

Hey, that’s good business. If the client is happy and you’re happy, that’s success! Sounds like a good arrangement. You’re providing value to the client by leveraging your contacts, you’re providing value to your contacts by referring them business, and you’re providing value to yourself by inspiring loyalty and appreciation from your client. Win-win-win. Not all benefits are immediate or tangible. Loyalty is worth far more than a $200 finder’s fee. That’s just a bonus, and I think it’s fair. Plus, it’s ongoing! Good for you, @ModelScort!

Regarding the personal data comment@Unicorn mentioned, I don’t need everyone knowing my middle name. I’m sure many clients would feel the same way if the positions were switched. The date of birth item I don’t care about since I use my real one to match what I advertise. Other hired guys frequently age shave, sometimes by a lot, and I’m sure many of them wouldn’t want to share this info with their clients - in particular new clients they’ve never met before. I am a registered known traveler, which helps me get me through security faster at most domestic airports. I use a Known Traveler Number when I book air travel, which, in the wrong hands, could be used to hack for lots of other information. How would you clients feel if I were booking travel for you? Would you feel comfortable sharing your information with me? I know that’s not how it works, but the same concerns you might have about sharing your information apply in the reverse. Clients use assumed names, share inaccurate ages, and other fabricated info with me all the time. I know their real names and ages through various means, but I don’t let on because I want them to feel comfortable. I would never do something to violate their privacy or discretion because I have a lot to lose by doing so. A client, however, has very little to lose by doing the same to me. By the way, I seek out client information firstly for personal safety and secondly to get a sense of whether the client is reliable. The rest I don’t care about. I’m not going to shame someone or blackmail them or anything like that.

That’s what I am saying. I AGREE with you. The policy is for first time clients who want to hire me anyway.

We providers can’t have it all our way. We can’t eliminate risk. Correct, there is no solace in that. It’s not all bleak though. When things don’t go my way, I don’t blame the system or demand the system conform to my expectations, however reasonable those expectations may be. Rather, I try my best to reduce risk rather than eliminate it. In an ideal world, our profession would be legal and all clients would either a) be willing to pay deposits or b) show up and fulfill their commitments without deposits. We do not live in that world. We can’t change human nature or force the nature of hiring to work that way. Our expectations are reasonable, but clients are often unreasonable. Maybe moreso in your market, but it’s a problem everywhere. It’s not fair, but the system works that way. Legalization would certainly help change the dynamic, but we are very far from that in the US. I hear you want to create a more favorable hiring world for us by educating clients. I think you’re an idealist in that sense, whereas I am a realist and a pragmatist. I accept the world as it is and make the best decisions I can to work with it rather than against it. Try as we may, our efforts only go so far. We shouldn’t give up doing important work to change hearts and minds on forums like this and elsewhere. However, our conversations won’t change the whole system. There will always be a majority (or significant percentage) of clients that will never pay deposits under any circumstances, and there will always be some percentage of flakes when we don’t require deposits. There’s no getting around that. Complaining about people being dickheads doesn’t advance our cause or earn us any more money. It doesn’t change the world in which we live. The dickheads will continue to be dickheads. We can’t control how people behave, but we can control how we run our businesses. When we find the right systems and policies that work for us, the right people find us and hire us. The rest fall away. Weigh the pros and cons and make decisions that work for you. When things don’t go your way, you can either consider it a cost/risk of doing business and cope, or decide the cost/risk is too great. If you land on the latter, consider changing your approach and policies to reduce risk. There is always some level of risk in doing what we do. Find your level of risk tolerance and let the rest go. We can’t win every bet, but we can arrange the game (i.e. business model, business decisions) to favor the house. It’s a matter of weighing which options work better for you. You could: 1) require deposits and accept the fact that your pool of potential clients is going to be much smaller…and you’re ok with that and don’t complain about the consequences of your own choices. 2) don’t require deposits and you accept the fact that some clients are going to flake…and when they do, you don’t complain about the consequences of your own choices. 3) figure out some other risk mitigation strategies you haven’t explored yet. At least be willing to try something different if you want different outcomes. 4) complain when the world doesn’t work the way you want it to and continue to do business as usual. 5) expect, ask, hope, beg, and try to convince the world to change and then continue to be upset when it doesn’t. 6) is there an option I’m missing? The way I do things will not be the right solution for everyone else, but here’s my approach for reference. I choose the no deposit path, but I also make other business decisions to support that one, like not being on the road all the time, and being strategic about trips when I do travel, among other things. I set up the game to favor the house. At the end of the day, I lose some, but I win more than I lose, and I’m successful because of the decisions I made. I don’t complain when I lose. I move on and focus on the majority wins. When there are not enough consistent wins to outweigh the losses, I change strategies until I find the right mix to favor the house. If you want ideas and are actually open to implementing them, ask. You have a lot of smart, helpful, compassionate people here who care about you and your success.

I hear you on that point @Unicorn. If I were a client hiring a provider for the first time, I wouldn’t do it. Usually in this situation the client and provider have more than one successful meet prior to establish rapports and trust. That makes a big difference. When a new client really wants me, and for me to travel far away for them, and they demonstrate their seriousness by taking a risk to pony up, I do it for those clients. The rest I turn down because the risk is not worth it to me. I take a much more generous approach with long established clients I trust. In my experience, the further the client is and the longer they want to hire me for, the more likely it is that they will cancel, often the day before or even the day-of. That’s the biggest reason why I won’t risk my time and $ for a first time client far away. Also, I prefer to make my own arrangements for privacy and security reasons. Handing over all my personal information to someone I don’t know is bonkers to me. Any other providers with more experience in long distance travel hires? I’d love to hear your perspectives and policies.

This is how I operate too, and why I almost never charge deposits either. When a client flakes, I only lose the time I spent waiting for them, and potentially another booking I had to turn down because the flake client occupied a slot on my calendar. IF I agree to travel to a city an hour or more away (and that’s a big IF), I would request a travel deposit up front, or at least charge the client a travel fee, even if it’s in the total and not in the form of a deposit paid in advance. If there is air travel involved or the client is multiple driving hours away, I would absolutely require a sizable deposit in advance to cover flights, gas, etc. I arrange my own travel. I don’t allow clients book flights or accommodations on my behalf. That way I can control cancellations, refunds, and rebooking things if necessary. For outcalls in my local area, I have a new policy: I only travel for clients booking services totaling $300 or more. I don’t charge a travel fee or deposit, but the total fee makes it worth my while to travel. For massage outcalls, I spend extra time setting up and taking down, which is unpaid, by the way, along with travel time in both directions, and gas, and most clients don’t appreciate ANY of this. The higher total fee incentivizes me to give away all this time for free. Also, I refuse the booking if the client doesn’t have space for my massage table and room to move freely around it (approx 9’x12’ clear area) My new policy means any of the following, that the client is: 1) Hiring me for outcall escort service. The client is owning that, and not trying to pretend they’re only getting a massage and then demanding full service on their own turf for the price of a massage. This is all too common 🙄 2) Hiring me for couples massage. For example, I massage one partner for an hour for $150, followed by the second partner for an hour for $150. I did this just the other day and the couple loved it. 3) Hiring any combination of multiple services totaling $300 or more. 4) Not getting a bed massage. I don’t do this. I can’t give a proper massage on a bed, and calling it a “massage” doesn’t change what the client really wants and expects. The client needs to hire me for escort service in that case, and pay the respective rate for it. I totally understand why others charge deposits. When you’re on the road traveling far to a client, spending money on accommodations, and taking only 1 client a day, or 2 at the most, it makes total sense. Personally, I couldn’t make that business model profitable for me, even if every client showed up and paid me my rate. So I don’t run my business that way. More power to providers who can make business sense of it and profit enough to keep going. When I do tours, it’s to places I know the local demand will fill my days with multiple appointments, and I only accept incalls where I am staying, with very few exceptions. I think I did one outcall for one client out of a whole month of a multi-city tour. Outside of the cases I mentioned, I stick to incall appointments in my home city. That is a profitable business model for me. This model allows me to not have to rely on deposits and travel fee requests to run my business well. There are many ways to do business. I suggest each provider find the right one for him. If your business relies heavily on deposits, I stand by the comment about not complaining. You have the power to change how your business operates so that you don’t have to rely so much on deposits. If the deposit policy works well for you on the whole, there is no reason to complain. If it doesn’t work well for you, I suggest changing your business model. If you don’t want to change your business model, by all means, keep throwing punches into the wind! But don’t complain when you’re not hitting anything.

At least in this context everything happens with consent, and I’m double the legal age… For the right price, I’ll kiss a ring or anything else he wants 😂

Here we go again. Please check the threads @56harrisond referenced. Deposits have been covered many, many, many times before in previous threads, even on threads that are not about deposits. @Phil Wagner check out the search function. That will shortcut you to all the best topics covering what you are asking about here, and you can contribute to those threads as well. The short answer is: do whatever makes sense for your business. You don’t have to cave to what clients want or expect. If you get enough business from clients who conform to your policies, great. Be upfront with everyone, and when they say no, move on…and please don’t ever complain about not getting enough business as a result of your own business policy decisions. OR take on clients without deposits at your own risk…and please don’t ever complain about flaky clients you engage as a result of your own business policy decisions. There is no perfect solution that works for every client or provider. I recognize there is plenty of room for nuance, but I won’t get into it here. The big issue is whether to require deposits or not. How much, and under what circumstances, etc is just details. You choose what works for you and ignore others who insist on their way of doing things. Either way, choose the best policies for your business and don’t complain. Take the compatible clients, weed out the incompatible clients. If your policies aren’t working out for you, change them, and stick consistently to them. Love long and prosper.

Lol I had a Catholic priest client one time. He was particularly handsy and creepy with me. Come on man, at least try not to play into the stereotypes and baggage. Oh well. They’re people too, with more or less the same desires and same needs as everyone else. I’m not judgmental at all, but I have to remind myself if these things sometimes.

@BeefyDude personally I have no problem talking on the phone, but I have my reasons for not picking up the phone for every Tom, Dick, and Harry that dials my number. Some of those reasons I’m sure I share with many other masseurs and escorts. Only after the client requests a call via text or through a messaging system, I will accept a call. Even then, I have to add the client as a contact before the call will ring through because I silence calls from all non-contacts. I see the missed call but my phone does not ring or buzz when they dial, until I add them as a contact. I do this for many reasons: 1) Avoids disturbing my current client. Who wants their masseur’s phone in the room to be buzzing or ringing non-stop? 2) I’m not always alone, available, and in a private place ready to talk. 3) Often clients try getting a free phone sex experience from me under the guise of “just asking questions”. 4) Many questions clients ask are already answered on my ads. Unless the client is asking questions that a phone call addresses better than the ad, I don’t see the point. In fact, it’s a red flag that this client isn’t one I want to see anyway. Some questions are good, it just depends if they want me to basically recite the ad for them or if they actually have substantive questions. 5) Telemarketers and scams are abundant. I have no time or patience for them. People still call my number trying to contact whoever was using the same number many years ago. I ignore those. 6) Mr Number and other sources are a clue. If the number has a lot of negative reports, I’m less inclined to be generous with my time for the client. As I already acknowledged, a lot of immature providers post unfair comments. There’s nothing wrong with asking questions and if you decide not to book, that’s no reason for the provider to leave a negative comment. Therefore, I take it all with a grain of salt. When the comments are consistent, specific, and warranted, I pay more attention. For example, consistent pattern of no-shows. Not general, vague things like “time waster”, or “stupid guy” or things like that. For some, a time waster is simply a client asking a few questions and then doesn’t book. I don’t consider that a time waster. I would if they tried to have phone sex with me or sext with me after I tell them my boundaries for unpaid calls.

Agree with all the above. I do à la carte service for clients who only want platonic time together. For everyone else, which is 99% of the time, I quote a rate for one or two hours, and then an all in rate for a longer period to include both platonic time and sexy time. I structure these as a 5-hr all inclusive option to include massage and spa services, sexy time, and time together doing all other activities like dinner, date, etc. It works out to a lower hourly rate. For me right now it’s $200/hr for those longer sessions instead of $300/hr. Others may be different, but for most of us it makes sense to give the client some sort of break on rate vs full rate X several hours. It’s an opportunity to earn more than we otherwise would for the same time. It’s a more enjoyable time for the client and worth his $. This concept may not apply to well known porn stars and whatnot, but you never know. It’s always best to ask. Here is a related discussion below:

Tal told me today that he is deleting his RentMasseur ad at the end of October 2023. I can’t afford to take advantage of his specials this month, but I’d love to try him eventually. As of today, he still advertises on RentMen. He’s also advertises on mainstream platforms Google Business and Yelp. https://sharoneskinspecialist.com AllForMen - Pornstar Performer, Rentboy, Gay Massage in San Diego, CA | RentMen RENTMEN.EU Pornstar Performer & Rentboy in San Diego, CA - AllForMen: All For Men