Simon Suraci

Comments about whether to be in the biz at all notwithstanding… …speaking fluent Spanish is an asset in San Diego. Occasionally a client will contact me requesting service with Spanish-only communication. Unfortunately I do not speak more than a few phrases and words in Spanish, so I rely on an automatic translator to relay information. Clients with the patience and understanding to communicate that way will see me. I have several Spanish speaking clients with very limited to no English skills and we get by just fine. Sometimes I miss out on work because the language barrier is too much for the client. It’s just a matter of client preference. I imagine some of our local Spanish speaking clients would prefer a fluent Spanish speaker provider. I can’t say being a Spanish speaking provider would be unique or novel around San Diego, but it certainly would be an asset and an opportunity to capture a particular niche in the market, especially if your look is different than the majority of other Spanish speaking providers in the area. I can’t speak to your look since I don’t have an ad or photo to go on. I recall seeing your ad while back when you posted it, but I lack a photographic memory. I speak French and I have many francophone clients. That would help me a lot more in Canada or other French speaking places, but those clients seem to find me here just fine one way or another. Another reason location isn’t everything.

I can’t speak to NYC but many other members here can. My understanding is that it’s the largest market in the United Sates. Dallas/ Ft Worth is a large metroplex area. It’s on track to exceed Chicago within the next 15 or so years. Dallas constantly has many traveling providers because it’s 1) a major city and 2) an air transportation hub. Southwest and American are based there, and several major airlines have routes there. There’s plenty of room for competition in Dallas, but if you try there, see what you can do to differentiate yourself from everyone else. That’s good advice anywhere, but it’s easy to get lost in the crowd in Dallas. Anywhere is going to be less of a crowd than NYC, so maybe that doesn’t matter for your purposes. You might try a trip to Dallas just to see how the locals respond to you. Try a week and see how it goes. There’s no lack of demand, just varying tastes and schedules. You might even bump into several traveling clients, since it’s such a hub and travelers have more urgency to book in a given timeframe than locals.

^This guy gets it!

I agree with most of the above. Every provider is different. You can charge whatever you want and it doesn’t have to match what the average is in a given area. It just has to make business sense for you. An escort’s advertised rate for one hour does mean something, but it’s more nuanced than that. I have different rates for massage than I do for escort service, for example, and I even do some breakout pricing for clients who want a blend of both in a single session. My escort rate is $300/hr which covers all the basics and even some niche interest activities. I discount my rate for longer hires, which is a lot of my business. You might find rates similar to mine in almost all major US cities. Higher in NYC/LA/SF etc, and lower in the American heartland. I can’t speak for everyone or give you an average rate, but mine is probably not very far off from a lot of other guys around SD. You get a LOT of outlier guys around SD and LA charging 5 or even $600+ for a single hour of service, but they can’t possibly be that busy working full time as an in person service escort. Most of them are doing fans sites work and/or have other jobs, and take the odd client once in a while who is willing to pay an outrageous fee for a specific look, body type, or niche service. The serious escorts who do this every day full time for their main living charge closer to the going rates. Even the part time guys often fall within the going rates: $250/hr at the low end, up to $350+/hr at the high end, excluding the unserious outliers I mentioned above. Some of that pricing becomes irrelevant when you’re entertaining clients for longer hires, like half a day, overnight, or multiple days. Those total in the thousands. Clients hire me most frequently for five hours, all-inclusive for $1000. That’s only $200/hr, but makes a hell of a lot more business sense for me. The per-hr rate is not everything. It’s just a benchmark. It’s the closest thing we have to something objective to compare. Like @SouthOfTheBorder mentioned, there are a lot of variables at play. You do what makes business sense for YOU, not what you perceive everyone else does. @socurious No kissing is quite limiting. Your pool of potential clients will be much smaller if you either can’t or won’t do all the vanilla basics like kissing, touching, jerking off, cuddling, oral, and anal (either or both positions), and preferably flexible on protected vs unprotected. The majority of clients want one or more of those activities, usually multiple. Most clients willing to pay close to the going rate want some kind of penetration, but not all. To be successful, you need to appeal to a wide variety of people. If you’re not all of the following: in your 20s (true age), conventionally extremely attractive, and fit, you have to appeal to the majority of clients in other ways. Some of those are: providing all the basic (and maybe some niche) services, demonstrating superior skills, and being easy to work with, and to a much lesser degree, how you price your services. I agree with many of the points @SouthOfTheBorder mentioned too. Price is probably the least important factor of all, assuming you’re not pricing way below or way above the going rates.

Agree 100% with @SouthOfTheBorder. You have to be good, no matter where you’re working. Some markets will be better for certain providers, but overall, the best providers do well most anywhere that has a sizable population to support them. Traveling is another strategy. Moving to San Diego won’t magically change your businesses overnight. I’m from San Diego originally and currently work in the San Diego market as a masseur and escort. I was successful in Dallas for a couple years too. Yes, SD is a smaller city, and a smaller market, and more difficult in some ways. We have more than plenty of provider choices, and a great many traveling providers constantly passing through. Fewer permanent guys, but plenty relative to the population. The gay porn industry is anchored here, and by extension, LA and the rest of SoCal. Many years ago I used to work my desk job on the floor above “Suite 703”. It actually was located on the seventh floor of my building. Sean Cody is here, among many others. A lot of those models are active here, or retire and remain in San Diego long term. I know some of them. A lot of them escort or do massage, or personal training. For example, you might recognize Anthony from his films: https://rentmasseur.com/AnthonySD All that to say, there is a lot of fierce competition here among providers. We may be a smaller city relative to NYC, LA and others, but we have no lack of attractive working men. Arguably the *quality* massage talent is lacking. We have lots of rub and tug guys who get by seeing one and done clients. There are a just a handful of good masseurs. For escorts, we are spoiled for choice. Lots of those. There’s what we like to call the “sunshine tax”, which means the cost of loving is very high, but wages across the board remain relatively very low in comparison to the high cost of living. This year SD is ranked the most expensive city to live in the US, topping even SF, Miami and NYC. Most years prior it was ranked below those. People move here because they love being here and are willing to sacrifice some aspect of their standard of living for the trade off of enjoying the less tangible benefits of living in SD. Having access to beautiful beaches, nice weather, the laid back attitude, lots of metropolitan institutions, and a thriving economy, among many perks of living here. NYC metro is also very expensive, so it may not matter if you’re comparing the two, but keep in mind business is challenging anywhere you go. You have to master your craft and how you do business. After that, you can go almost anywhere that makes sense and do well.

Do what you want. It’s waaay harder than it looks. It’s difficult to do this part time or have a casual attitude about it. If the only reason you’re considering being a provider is to hire more frequently, I would suggest seeking out many other alternative side hustles that won’t take such a huge toll on you emotionally, your time, or your personal sex life. The last thing I want to do at the end of my day is hire. Find what you’re good at, what you like, and what you can do better than most other people. Maybe that’s being a provider. For most people, it’s something else. Success in this biz demands commitment, learning, sacrifice, self awareness, and a healthy dose of emotional maturity. You can’t half ass those things or gain them overnight. Experience matters. The learning curve is shallow, as in: it takes a lot of time and experience to learn and get really good. The curve gets steeper later. You learn more and get better at a faster rate, but not without the slow, long struggle of the “shallow” part of the learning curve first. Good luck in whatever you end up doing!

I called to ask for a few yards of rock. Me: “I need something with an average size between 5” and 9”.” Vendor: “We only have 3” or less.” Me: “It’s a perfectly reasonable request…”

I disagree. Providers vary. Masseurs vary. They’re not all good either. The notion that a “giving” oriented provider versus one that prefers to be “worshipped” is also subjective. Some clients actually prefer the latter and seek them out specifically. I argue the majority prefer the former. IMHO the best masseurs and providers are givers. Giving is not a role, attitude, or a specific act. It’s an orientation and a willingness to please the client, in whatever way that client actually wants (which again, can vary widely). Even being “worshipped” is giving in a way. It’s all relative to what the client wants. It takes a special person to tune in to the nuanced needs of another and fulfill them to the client’s satisfaction. Especially if the client is not very forthcoming about everything they actually want. We often have to intuit and pivot in the moment. That takes skill, attention, experience, and a lot of awareness. I believe @Jamie21 truly gets it. The fact that he invests so much emotional energy on each client is telling. Lots of attention and awareness, lots of giving mentality. That’s a good provider in my book.

It’s harder to find, but some masseurs are equally excellent at therapeutic massage, eroticism, and sex work - and balance all of those well. I am one of them. I haven’t had the pleasure of visiting @Jamie21 yet, but from what I know from the forums, I am sure he is too. My major point of difference is not what I am willing to do, or for whom, but what you’re paying for the level of service you want. You don’t have to choose between good massage or sex work. You can have it all! At least with me. The key is finding the right provider for your particular needs, and communicating your needs. Also key is valuing the services appropriately and paying for them appropriately. Best to book ahead when you want more. Expecting someone to give away a more valuable service for free or at a discount will leave most of you disappointed most of the time. You will hear stories of freebies on these forums all the time because those are the most memorable and exciting stories to tell. The day-to-day reality is not like that at all. It’s not about the way you look, either. I serve everyone. Young, old, fit, out of shape, differently abled people, more attractive people, less attractive people, and so on. The other day, I told a client I was really into that he would need to pay my respective rates if he wants me to top him. That’s how it works, no matter who you are. Other providers will vary. Many of them cherry pick clients and what they will do with whom, but those are not the best guys to hire anyhow. They don’t understand how this business works, and they won’t last. Or it’s not their main source of income and can afford to not take it seriously. I must have stamina then. I might average more like 3 per day, but it varies. On my busiest days, I will do 5 or 6 per day, no problem. I max out at six. It also just depends on the services clients are booking and for how long. Yesterday, for example, I had a three hour appointment, and still had two other clients, one before and one after and each of those was over 90 mins. That’s quite a full day seeing only three, so I hear your point. Sometimes I have 5-6 clients per day for weeks at a stretch depending on if I am traveling to other cities for work or if it’s a busy season. The thing is, a client has no idea of my schedule or how busy I am on a given day, and honestly they don’t care anyway. Money aside, it’s unreasonable for a client to expect or request me to perform at an escort level with no notice and for the same fee. Just from a practical perspective, I can’t do it. And again, it has nothing to do with the way the client looks. This is my job. Not a hookup app with money changing hands. I have a fee schedule for clients who specifically want a fantasy massage / escort combination service. You get anything and (pretty much) everything you want on the sex side, AND plenty of quality legit massage therapy time. You pick the total time to fit your needs and your budget, and bingo. Get it all. Pay equitably for it. Everybody is happy. Here’s that, for reference: Massage / Sex Work Combo (Incall/Outcall) $450 / 120 min $400 / 90 min $300 / 60 min Compare to my regular massage rates: Incall Massage $260 / 120 min - Luxury $210 / 90 min - Recommended $150 / 60 min - Basic $80 / 30 min - Express

Sorry for the cold shower on your hot fantasy, guys. I’m just trying to inject some realism into this discussion so you can develop appropriate expectations and also delight in the unexpected when it happens. Value your providers and pay them accordingly. Please keep in mind we are not cum machines. I completely understand the client fantasy of a massage scenario morphing into a porn set. That scenario assumes your appointment is the only thing on your masseur’s agenda for the day. However, it’s just that: a fantasy. I can’t deliver cum for a massage fee for every client that darkens my door. Some days that means I would have to get hard and ejaculate six times back to back. Never mind the fact that I may have a legit escort client I have to perform for on that same day. I just can’t do it consistently and still maintain quality or sufficiently pace myself. If you want your masseur to cum as part of your massage session, please ask for it and pay his escort rate, or at the very least, tip very generously when you fail to discuss an appropriate fee prior to starting the session and he does it for you anyway. If your guy is already way overcharging for massage (like, $200+/hr), it’s safe to assume these services are already baked into the cost and I wouldn’t worry about it. $160/hr or less I would assume nothing more than massage, and enjoy the possibility of some extras if he does them. Happy endings are very common and normal, but not guaranteed. Do not expect full service, oral, or your masseur to cum for you. Some guys might do these things for their regular massage fee, but please respect masseurs with boundaries around what they will do for their standard massage fee. Boundaries vary. Clients are not entitled to anything they didn’t already discuss with their masseur. I want my clients to understand the value of each of the services they hire and pay accordingly. Massage (even erotic massage) is NOT discount sex work. Blowing loads all over clients with no discussion of rates beforehand is, in my mind, asking the client to expect discount escort services. We can debate at length about what is and isn’t sex work and many other threads already hash it out. IMHO, having to deliver cum - in one way or another - is well within the sex work category. Others can charge whatever they want for it. If your guy can consistently cum for you for a massage fee, enjoy the discount service, but please do not place the same expectations on other masseurs. I can do six massages a day. I can’t possibly take six escort clients a day. So I charge higher for escort service and lower for massage. Scarcity over a given time period is among the many reasons I charge the way I do.

OKC is an underserved market. They can always use traveling providers and masseurs. I did well there and plan to return.

I collaborate with others on erotic stuff, HE, extras, escorting, etc. I reached out to Kyle recently to see if he would be interested in working together on 4-hand massage clients. It would be for therapeutic only, no HE or anything like that. I’m trying to accommodate a wide range of needs by working with different guys. When I hired Kyle several years ago, I figured he was therapeutic only. In person, he was interested in much more than massage with me. And yes he asked for photos before meeting, which I sent. I was into him and how the session was escalating, but we did not continue further. I thanked him anyway for a good therapeutic session, paid him, and we parted ways. When I reached out this time about working together, we eventually discussed the fact that I also do escort work. He clutched his pearls when I shared this and then did not want to collaborate because it would associate him with my other work. He said he doesn’t even do a HE. I respect that and was clear that I was interested in partnering for therapeutic only massage and that some of my clients would be the right fit. Anyway, it just puzzles me that he privately does more than massage (according to my personal experience with him), and apparently cares a great deal about what his clients look like based on his ad content over the years, asking for photos, stats, etc, and yet he is uncomfortable working with me because I advertise as an escort. All respect to him for keeping it therapeutic only, and that’s fine, but I find it unfortunate that he does the same work but only on his own personal preference terms. At least I’m upfront about what I do, and I serve everyone. Definitely dodged a bullet there.

Yes. I work every day. Except for like, Thanksgiving Day and Christmas Day. Maybe Labor Day and/or Memorial Day if my family has something going on and a client hasn’t already booked me well in advance. Even when I’m not fully booked on a given day, there’s always something flexible but work related to do and I do it. It’s imperative to have periods of total downtime. Travel for fun/vacation/relaxation must be planned out and booked in advance. Even staycations are that way. It’s intentional and normal, and necessary for my well being. That said, I don’t take more vacation than most other people. Maybe 2 weeks a year in aggregate. 3 to 4 weeks a year when I am doing well and able to miss out on the work. I can’t afford to do that right now, but maybe in a year or two after my new client base in San Diego is better established.

Or bring the hose and nozzle and attach it to where a regular shower head is mounted. Plumbing tape is handy too, to get a good seal. Be sure to use an adjustable pressure nozzle.

I’m with you there. This happens from time to time. I’m direct about my purpose for being on whatever platform, which excludes personal hookups. I only block if they don’t respect my boundaries. I admit I occasionally reach out to others, but never for hookups. Either: 1) to ask about a client they’ve seen who also now wants to see me, mostly just to verify for safety reasons, not to get details or information about the client. I don’t have time for that and can’t expect another guy to do that either, but a quick confirmation that the client is safe to see is a great way to look out for one another. 2) propose a collaboration for work. I work with others, both for massage and for escorting. Sometimes a client wants more than one guy and I like to have a variety of contacts at the ready to meet various client needs. The way I see it, I’m getting work I otherwise would have to turn down, plus I’m providing value to the client using my network…and providing value to the other escort by bringing him more work…and providing value to myself by leveraging other escort networks if/when they have a client need that includes me. Tbh I bring way more work to other guys than they bring to me, but that’s how networking works. Once in a while a contact reciprocates and a good mutually beneficial work relationship flourishes.

Any other comments on BiMuscleStud I appreciate. Always looking to try other SD masseurs.

I also offer 4-hand massages with MuscleGingerXL. We don’t bump into each other. It’s pretty smooth sailing! BiMuscleStud and MuscleGingerXL are both bi, so I understand the appeal for some. I work on straight couples, including for erotic sessions. Never had an issue satisfying either party! Happy to work with bi and straight guys like these.

You could use RentMen Messenger or maybe an email that you sign into to contact escorts. Or one of the messenger apps besides the native messaging app. You might control the alerts on any if those options better than traditional texting.

This is not my experience at all. With the right providers, you get them focused on the client and fulfilling his needs the whole time. Providers can hook up on their own time for free if they want. Good providers make client satisfaction the focus of their sessions. You will find more input in other discussions on the topic. Thanks @56harrisond for posting those.

I worked in Dallas, Texas for two years after the felony laws went into effect. No change in hiring trends or number of providers, basically nothing changed. From what I’ve read, it may have marginally impacted the straight hiring scene moreso than m4m, but I don’t know for sure.

^Thank you for bringing up that point. ^Thank you. As a versatile/mostly top provider, I need notice too. Bottoming takes a significant level of prep, but I can usually handle that with two hours notice or less, I’m already near my shower, and assuming I am eating my normal diet and nothing health wise is preventing me from performing. Topping also takes notice because I want to give my clients my best. If I just blew a load, either on my own or for a client, I can’t exactly give my next client the best possible experience. Sure I can probably make it work, but it’s stacking the odds for a suboptimal meet for sure. Two hours or less notice assumes I’m a monk all day every day when I’m not otherwise working, and that I haven’t had any clients that day requiring me to top and cum for them (maybe even multiple times). ^I agree. It takes time to travel, and clients often don’t appreciate what it takes to get ready and get to them on short notice. Clients don’t factor in traffic, or distance, especially if they are visiting from out of town and have no concept of it. _________________ With all that said, I set my booking app to allow my clients to book two hours ahead from the time they are viewing. As long as it’s within my standard hours, they can automatically book same day, two hours ahead. For incall massage, that’s no problem. It’s quite handy when I am working on a client and can’t otherwise respond to a last minute request. The client books, they get a notification with all the info, and show up for their appointment. Easy. Not sure why more people don’t take advantage of that feature.

Also, MasseurFinder is among the most expensive ad platforms around. The only way to be in one of the top slots is to pay an outrageous sum every month. You can follow all the rules and be the most up-to-date, etc and still fall in the middle of the pack (at best). I pay $105/mo for bronze based on rates a few years ago, but they keep jacking everything up. It’s crazy:

Thanks for sharing this insight @Shawn Monroe. Agree, MasseurFinder is very restrictive and they ding your placement if you don’t follow all their criteria. One of those criteria is using all of the features, like offering a day of the week discount. I advertise weekly specials, but stopped advertising ongoing day of the week discounts because MF will only allow you to frame it as a flat % rather than a dollar value. Since my longer sessions are already discounted, it would be a disservice to myself to offer another discount on top of that. Besides, the day of the week discount wasn’t bringing me much extra business anyway.

I agree. To clarify, it’s ok to have boundaries. We shouldn’t be doormats. When a client flakes, I don’t book them again. At the same time, I have no need to spend emotional energy going out of my way to make them feel bad for flaking. If it helps you emotionally to vent, by all means, call them out. They don’t care though, and calling them out won’t change their behavior. Some clients are shitty, and will be shitty no matter what. You mention your website and deposits and such. Great. I have policies and ways of doing business too, and it does cut down on a lot of nonsense. Even when we have policies in place to weed out some of the worst offenders, we can’t possibly prevent them all. I accept that fact and move on. To dwell on clients being shitty is a “me” problem. I can’t force clients to change their behavior.

Turning the tables here…a client today requested I mail him a letter instead of texting. He’s 91 years old. I think that’s my oldest client to date. I get it. He’s not great with text communication. We’re good with phone calls and communicate that way whenever I’m free, and he leaves a VM when I can’t pick up, which really helps. During our session, he brought up some ideas for other things he wants to hire me for besides massage. I gave him a brief rundown, but he needs a list to mull over. I’m going to hand write and snail mail him a menu of additional services to review for future appointments.