Will it ever fly?

[mike carey]

Another story to which the question posed in the title applies but for which it was not intended has come out today, and to me is a glimmer of hope for the post-CoviD-19 aviation world. Singapore Airlines is proceeding with reconfiguring the cabins of 12 of their A380 aircraft.

 

https://onemileatatime.com/singapore-airlines-reconfiguring-a380-new-cabins/

 

I know there are some of you who while sceptical of the advantages of these aeroplanes, were 'hooked' once you flew on one. I know I was booked on one for the return leg of my ill-fated trip to Palm Springs this year (I didn't book the less convenient outbound route via LAX rather than use SFO on a B787 just to use an A380). With this announcement Singapore is all-but confirming that they will be operating the aircraft again, and SYD and MEL to SIN are likely routes for them once we open our borders. Whether Qantas does the same is still a decision for the future, and whether they will fly them, or anything, to LAX again even further in the future. In the meantime, one small victory at a time.

[MscleLovr]

American has announced that it will be adding back the 737MAX to its schedule in late December. Other US carriers say they will follow suit in 2021.

(Source: Financial Times)

 

I would not fly on the aircraft until there have been several years of successful use and no further crashes. Are other people more relaxed about flying on the aircraft?

[jeezifonly]

Why does going anywhere beyond my driveway seem so ...2019? I fear my next flight will be obligatory, under duress, for a family funeral. I need some aloha sooooo bad, but not for a while. Mainlanders bring disease.

 

I sincerely hope Boeing has in fact resolved programming and operational issues. I’d expect, should one of their craft have so much as a squiffy landing, they may be through.

[mike carey]

Are other people more relaxed about flying on the aircraft?

Nope, not even slightly.

[Guest]

Are other people more relaxed about flying on the aircraft?

I am. After ample review, we know exactly what the two problems were which caused the crashes: (1) a software issue, and (2) pilot training. Properly addressing either problem would have prevented the tragedies. It seems to me that both were addressed thoroughly, after years of work. Those aircraft are probably safer than any new aircraft recently rolled out to the airlines. How long would people wait before boarding the A380s after they were first brought out?

[Otto]

Given that Elaine Chao is running Department of Transportation, and McConnell's ties to Boeing (Got Nikki Haley on the board of Boeing)... I have zero trust in the decision to let this bird fly again, and will NOT fly on one of those planes.

[Luv2play]

I am. After ample review, we know exactly what the two problems were which caused the crashes: (1) a software issue, and (2) pilot training. Properly addressing either problem would have prevented the tragedies. It seems to me that both were addressed thoroughly, after years of work. Those aircraft are probably safer than any new aircraft recently rolled out to the airlines. How long would people wait before boarding the A380s after they were first brought out?

There is actually a third problem. As we discovered, the MAX 737 was the old 737 fuselage basically with new engines that were larger and had to be placed on the wings in such a way as required software to correct potential stall issues.

 

Only the software has been changed. The plane is basically a pig that flies, or might fly satisfactorily as long as nothing goes wrong with the software or the devices that feed it information such as the sensors on the outside of the fuselage. If anything in that link malfunctions well, as the expression goes, kiss your ass as you bend over in your seat.

 

As an addendum, I would like to see the entire senior management of Boeing and the FAA and their families, wives and children, take a flight before the first commercial flight takes place by any airline. Even then I wouldn’t get on the plane.

[Guest]

...

 

Only the software has been changed....

No, the pilot training has also changed, so the pilots now know what to do if the software fix also fails.

[Luv2play]

No, the pilot training has also changed, so the pilots now know what to do if the software fix also fails.

We’ll see how that works out. Knowing what to do and actually reacting in time when alarms are going off and the recording “Pull up pull up” is yelling in your ears can induce a panic in some individuals, despite all the training in the world.

[Guest]

We’ll see how that works out. Knowing what to do and actually reacting in time when alarms are going off and the recording “Pull up pull up” is yelling in your ears can induce a panic in some individuals, despite all the training in the world.

I would think that pilots are vetted to weed out those who panic in emergency situations. And if the captain were to panic, hopefully there are other people in the cockpit who know how to fly the plane and not panic. And if you have a panicky pilot, it could be a problem in any aircraft.

[Luv2play]

I would think that pilots are vetted to weed out those who panic in emergency situations. And if the captain were to panic, hopefully there are other people in the cockpit who know how to fly the plane and not panic. And if you have a panicky pilot, it could be a problem in any aircraft.

yeah, I guess its hard to panic in 6 seconds, the amount of time they would have to correct the problem.

[Luv2play]

For me the key takeaway from the investigation was that the Max 737 uses older technology and can’t use computers systems that newer plane designs can to assist pilots in dealing with emergencies. So it relies on humans dealing with a situation where multiple alarms and even contradictory warnings are assaulting the pilots’ senses simultaneously, as in the 2 crashes causing 347 deaths.

 

Boeing then used expert test pilots to test the systems, a far cry from the average pilots used by the airlines.

 

Here in Canada the transport minister said yesterday Canada would not accept the FAA new training advice and would develop our own so the plane won’t be certified to fly here automatically. Canada also happens to manufacture the flight simulators used in pilot training worldwide (CAE).

[Luv2play]

Ps our transport minister is a former astronaut who has been to outer space a few times.

 

He was heavily criticized after the second Max crash when he delayed like the Americans for an extra day in grounding the jet, when British and other major countries had all moved immediately to ground theirs.

 

This time he is apparently not going to be caught off side again.

[Guest]

yeah, I guess its hard to panic in 6 seconds, the amount of time they would have to correct the problem.

There are certain professions, like surgeons and airline pilots, where the training and supervision goes on for years to make sure that the person does not panic under stressful situations. I personally have never had a panic attack, for example. Lots of things can go wrong when flying an airplane (or during an operation, when the heart can stop, for instance). Whatever the situation, it's bad news if the captain panics, but even then the co-pilot or navigator should be able to take over quickly. I do prefer sticking to large airlines, since they would tend to hire the most experienced pilots. It's always riskier flying with "Discount Indonesian Airlines" and the like. I'm going to Mexico in a week. On the way back, I could have chosen a non-stop flight from Guadalajara to Oakland on Volaris, a discount airline, but I instead chose to fly on United via Houston to SF. I would also avoid discount US airlines such as Allegiant.

Edited November 19, 2020 by Unicorn

[mike carey]

An avgeek tangent.

[Luv2play]

There are certain professions, like surgeons and airline pilots, where the training and supervision goes on for years to make sure that the person does not panic under stressful situations. I personally have never had a panic attack, for example. Lots of things can go wrong when flying an airplane (or during an operation, when the heart can stop, for instance). Whatever the situation, it's bad news if the captain panics, but even then the co-pilot or navigator should be able to take over quickly. I do prefer sticking to large airlines, since they would tend to hire the most experienced pilots. It's always riskier flying with "Discount Indonesian Airlines" and the like. I'm going to Mexico in a week. On the way back, I could have chosen a non-stop flight from Guadalajara to Oakland on Volaris, a discount airline, but I instead chose to fly on United via Houston to SF. I would also avoid discount US airlines such as Allegiant.

This is an old post but on rereading it I just had to comment. I flew Swissair for decades to and from Canada during my diplomatic career. My respect for their professionalism took a serious hit when a Swissair plane flying from NY to Switzerland crashed off the coast of Nova Scotia.

Later investigations showed that the senior pilot overruled his junior copilot in refusing to dump their fuel over the ocean and heading straight into Halifax to land when a fire broke out onboard. Instead, the pilot flew around a great circle before approaching the airport, thus losing precious time, and before the plane could land, the smoke and heat had forced the crew in the cockpit to abandon it, thus leaving the plane pilotless and doomed to crash in the ocean off Peggy's Cove.

 

The other comment I would make is that doctors have been known to panic in the OR when things went awry. The nurses observe it but nothing is said. The old saying, Doctors bury their mistakes, reflects reality.

[Danny-Darko]

width=626pxhttps://scontent.ftpa1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/132506676_1428992780810533_479588007382899661_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=Rld1AabTU1cAX-a0ANc&_nc_ht=scontent.ftpa1-1.fna&oh=e76dc00b85f9267288c7b159a8ef6aa6&oe=600611A8[/img]

 

I have NO desire to fly the 737Max ever. I've even avoided the 787, though so far it's hasn't had anymore incidents that we know of.

Better safe... because in this case there won't be time to even be sorry! There are still many other aircrafts and airlines to fly on most routes, so why risk it?

Normally I'm not afraid of flying, but when repeated incidents happen on same type of aircrafts I avoid them.

In the 70's/80's I avoided the DC-10 after multiple fatal accidents. Yet I continued to fly often the MD-11 with KLM after the Swissair crash because it had been an isolated incident. Same with the A330 after the isolated Air France disaster. Airbus immediately took care of the issue and the A330 had been flying for awhile with many airlines without any problems, so I continued to fly on them.

I preferred the A340 but airlines were fazing them out quickly because of fuel costs. Boeing 777's, 747's are my favorite aircrafts to fly on long haul.

[Luv2play]

The Swissair accident had nothing to do with the plane the manufacturer built but the aftermarket entertainment system the airline installed. It’s wires went on fire. Simple as that.

[Danny-Darko]

The Swissair accident had nothing to do with the plane the manufacturer built but the aftermarket entertainment system the airline installed. It’s wires went on fire. Simple as that.

 

Yes, I remember.

[Guest]

Because that's what they do when there's big news. Shares ended the week about where they started. Have mentioned a time or two before, I bought for a decade, not a month or year. That said, I'm not loving the drip, drip, drip delay strategy.

 

Honey, you always wanted ring door bell for the front door. You have one now. It's a bit larger than expected.

 

[+ Charlie]

Honey, you always wanted ring door bell for the front door. You have one now. It's a bit larger than expected.

 

They're lucky it didn't land on the roof.

[Guest]

width=626pxhttps://scontent.ftpa1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/132506676_1428992780810533_479588007382899661_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=Rld1AabTU1cAX-a0ANc&_nc_ht=scontent.ftpa1-1.fna&oh=e76dc00b85f9267288c7b159a8ef6aa6&oe=600611A8[/img]

 

... Boeing 777's, 747's are my favorite aircrafts to fly on long haul.

Edited February 22, 2021 by Unicorn

[Max]

Honey, you always wanted ring door bell for the front door. You have one now. It's a bit larger than expected.

 

 

 

For sale. $9,999. This deal just dropped in my lap and I don't need it, so I'm passing on the savings.

[Guest]

For sale. $9,999. This deal just dropped in my lap and I don't need it, so I'm passing on the savings.

Wait Max, there's more!

 

The engine of a Boeing 747 exploded in midair Saturday over the Netherlands, dropping metal debris that injured two people, according to Dutch authorities.

 

The plane, a cargo jet operated by charter company Longtail Aviation, began experiencing engine problems shortly after it took off from the town of Maastricht in the Netherlands, bound for New York City, CNN reported.

 

Witnesses heard explosions, and air traffic control informed the pilot that one of the plane’s engines was on fire, according to Reuters. The plane scattered parts over the Dutch town of Meerssen, injuring two people and damaging property. One widely circulated photo of the destruction shows what appears to be a part of an engine blade wedged in the roof of a car like a knife stuck in a block of butter.

 

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/boeing-747-engine-catches-fire-drops-parts-over-the-netherlands-injuring-2/

[Guest]

For sale. $9,999. This deal just dropped in my lap and I don't need it, so I'm passing on the savings.

Wait Max, there's more!

 

The engine of a Boeing 747 exploded in midair Saturday over the Netherlands, dropping metal debris that injured two people, according to Dutch authorities.

 

The plane, a cargo jet operated by charter company Longtail Aviation, began experiencing engine problems shortly after it took off from the town of Maastricht in the Netherlands, bound for New York City, CNN reported.

 

Witnesses heard explosions, and air traffic control informed the pilot that one of the plane’s engines was on fire, according to Reuters. The plane scattered parts over the Dutch town of Meerssen, injuring two people and damaging property. One widely circulated photo of the destruction shows what appears to be a part of an engine blade wedged in the roof of a car like a knife stuck in a block of butter.

 

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/boeing-747-engine-catches-fire-drops-parts-over-the-netherlands-injuring-2/