Will it ever fly?

[Guest]

 

I doubled up on Monday at $340.

 

Now's your chance to short BA and prove me wrong.

 

Please.

 

New York (CNN Business)President Donald Trump said Tuesday that Boeing should get financial assistance from the federal government in the face of the coronavirus crisis.

Boeing confirmed that it is seeking $60 billion in federal help, primarily in loan guarantees for the aerospace industry. It did not say how much of that assistance it would seek to access itself.

Before it revealed the details of the package it was seeking, Trump had voiced support for helping the company.

[Max]

New York (CNN Business)President Donald Trump said Tuesday that Boeing should get financial assistance from the federal government in the face of the coronavirus crisis.

Boeing confirmed that it is seeking $60 billion in federal help, primarily in loan guarantees for the aerospace industry. It did not say how much of that assistance it would seek to access itself.

Before it revealed the details of the package it was seeking, Trump had voiced support for helping the company.

 

Fortunately, I was out a long time ago.

 

Time to put politics aside.

 

We are facing an unprecedented public health threat that will likely put our economy into recession...if we are lucky.

 

Everyone stay safe. Wash your hands. Stay home if you can.

[mike carey]

New York (CNN Business)President Donald Trump said Tuesday that Boeing should get financial assistance from the federal government in the face of the coronavirus crisis.

Boeing confirmed that it is seeking $60 billion in federal help, primarily in loan guarantees for the aerospace industry. It did not say how much of that assistance it would seek to access itself.

Before it revealed the details of the package it was seeking, Trump had voiced support for helping the company.

My view, and it is likely to be seen as a left wing perspective is that if corporations of 'national significance' want to receive government assistance in times like this, it should be on the condition that the money is invested as equity funding and for it to use the leverage it has to reduce or even eliminate obscene levels of executive salaries and bonuses (even claw back those paid recently when the corporation failed to prepare for what caused it to need a bail-out), or even to use it to further government employment objectives.

[mike carey]

Here's one that won't fly again, at least not in its current incarnation. QF28, operated by B747-438 VH-QEE, landed in Sydney today from Santiago. This marks the end of an era as Qantas concludes 48 years of operation of the B747. The almost complete cessation of international flight operations has meant that the airline brought forward the retirement of the type.

Edited March 29, 2020 by mike carey

[Max]

BA0193 yesterday flew LHR-DFW with zero PAX.

[mike carey]

It might be the first, certainly the first I've seen during this crisis. Airline Virgin Australia has gone into voluntary administration yesterday. That's analogous to US Chapter 11 (I don't know precisely how that works so I'm not sure how close it is), with an external administrator brought in to run the company rather than the company management being allowed to continue. The airline had been signalling that it needed help of the order of $1.4b since flight restrictions began, but its shareholders (Branson; Singapore and Etihad Airlines; and a couple of Chinese investment funds) have been unable or unwilling to provide any funds. The Australian government had also declined to provide any funds, either as a loan or an equity injection. It does, however, have an interest in retaining a second major carrier in the country, so will assist in some way in the process that has just begun.

 

The administrator will continue to operate the airline (for the time being on a vastly reduced scale), retain its staff and assets, and basically try to sell it as a going concern. The restructure will wipe out the existing owners' equity and probably eliminate much of the airline's debt. Any new owners will probably be required to operate the airline and not be permitted to asset strip it and close it down. The airline management, the administrator and the government are all confident that the firm will be restructured and be ready to continue operations after the crisis. Apparently there are already 10 expressions of interest, but the administrator is very tight lipped about them, not even being prepared to reveal whether any of them are foreign airlines.

 

Although the process of restructuring and sale could well be completed fairly quickly, the recovery of the airline industry in the country will be much slower. The progress of the epidemic in Australia is looking positive, and the prospect of domestic aviation opening up here, and across the Tasman where New Zealand is on a similar Covid-19 trajectory, is reasonably positive. The prospect of international passenger aviation resuming in any meaningful way is much less clear. Nobody is confident that travel from Australia to anywhere except New Zealand will resume before the end of the year. Virgin's international presence was quite small, operating its own metal to only a few destinations (one of those is the US, where it has a partnership with Delta), but it covers other international destinations with code shares on Singapore, Etihad and South African (that I know of).

 

The administrator gave an interview on ABC radio this morning and the presenter asked him about the travel credits that the airline currently holds (swollen by all the cancellations of the last two months) and whether they were at risk. His view was that they probably weren't, mainly because honouring them would be one key to retaining and even enhancing customer loyalty. Of course, any potential buyer would be able to factor that contingent liability into their offer price. One other issue, that was a concern to me, is their frequent flyer program, but they sent an email to program members yesterday. The program is run by a separate Virgin owned company, and its points liability is covered by cash in a trust account. How secure that is, I am not sure. The email said that they are confident of continuing to operate, and hope to continue their relationship with the airline.

[mike carey]

Well, this one won't be flying for a bit. An A380 from Singapore Airlines has arrived at the long term aeroplane parking lot at Alice Springs.

 

[MEDIA=twitter]1254182503947972608[/MEDIA]

[mike carey]

More an aviation geek story (as the author notes) is this one from the dying days of international aviation (yes, hyperbole). The last few QF SYD-LHR flights, which were usually routed through Singapore had to be changed due to a change in Singapore government policy. So Qantas for a couple of days had non-stop A380 flights from Australia to London when it operated with a technical stop in Darwin rather than a standard stop in Singapore.

https://onemileatatime.com/qantas-a380-australia-london/

[MikeBiDude]

Possible test flights?

https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/boeing-737-max-certification-flight-tests

[gallahadesquire]

That the 737MAX hasn’t been destroyed and rebuilt from the bottom says I personally will NEVER fly that beast. I like my life too much.

[mike carey]

This is one that won't ever fly again.

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media-releases/qantas-farewells-queen-of-the-skies/

Well, not commercially in QF livery.

 

I didn't realise (or perhaps rather I didn't remember) that Qantas was the first airline to have a business class cabin. With the B747 retirement and the grounding of its A380s, for the moment Qantas doesn't have any first class cabins. (They do have flat-bed business class seats in wide body domestic and the remaining international fleet[ not flying now].)

[MscleLovr]

This is one that won't ever fly again.

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media-releases/qantas-farewells-queen-of-the-skies/

Well, not commercially in QF livery.

 

I didn't realise (or perhaps rather I didn't remember) that Qantas was the first airline to have a business class cabin. With the B747 retirement and the grounding of its A380s, for the moment Qantas doesn't have any first class cabins. (They do have flat-bed business class seats in wide body domestic and the remaining international fleet[ not flying now].)

 

And last week, British Airways announced they would retire their entire fleet of 747s. I really enjoyed flying on the upper deck as it felt like a rather private cabin.

 

That the 737MAX hasn’t been destroyed and rebuilt from the bottom says I personally will NEVER fly that beast. I like my life too much.

 

Today I read that the 737-MAX re-certification may come as early as October. I’m with @gallahadesquire as I will never trust that aircraft enough to fly on it.

[mike carey]

And this cute gesture on departure (in the embedded video).

https://onemileatatime.com/qantas-draws-kangaroo-final-747-flight/

[MscleLovr]

And this cute gesture on departure (in the embedded video).

https://onemileatatime.com/qantas-draws-kangaroo-final-747-flight/

 

Pity there‘s no emoji for “sweet”

[wklukas]

And last week, British Airways announced they would retire their entire fleet of 747s. I really enjoyed flying on the upper deck as it felt like a rather private cabin.

 

I started really frequent / nearly constant international travel for my work around late 1998.....so, I had nearly 5 years of being a frequent passenger on BA (& Air France) Concorde flights.....when Concorde ended, I really missed the time savings & the options / flexibility those savings provided in terms of scheduling, planning, etc.....however the cramped, almost claustrophobic interior space was really pretty uncomfortable....thankfully the flights were short enough that trips to the lavatory onboard were nearly never needed — they were so super-small as to be almost impossible for just an average-sized person to use.....flying Concorde was the definition of a love / hate relationship.....for me, at least.

[mike carey]

And one last comment,

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/jul/22/secrets-of-the-boeing-747-on-board-the-last-qantas-jumbo-jet

[MscleLovr]

I started really frequent / nearly constant international travel for my work around late 1998.....so, I had nearly 5 years of being a frequent passenger on BA (& Air France) Concorde flights.....when Concorde ended, I really missed the time savings & the options / flexibility those savings provided in terms of scheduling, planning, etc.....however the cramped, almost claustrophobic interior space was really pretty uncomfortable....thankfully the flights were short enough that trips to the lavatory onboard were nearly never needed — they were so super-small as to be almost impossible for just an average-sized person to use.....flying Concorde was the definition of a love / hate relationship.....for me, at least.

 

Oh, memories: I loved the Concorde @wklukas. In the late 1980s, I was put in charge of my firm’s operations in the US and with operations in NYC, DC and San Francisco, I was a monthly commuter on BA Concorde out of London.

 

It felt like the last gasp of the era when flying was glamorous and the food was more than edible. I agree the seats were narrow but I never found it claustrophobic. The service for passengers was exemplary. Once you were seen as a regular customer, treatment was exceptional. I recall one time I was late arriving at LHR: unbidden, they had held the Concorde for me - saying there was no time to check my baggage, they rushed me through the airport and gave my bags to the cabin crew.

 

And, if my memory is not playing tricks with me, for a while BA offered a helicopter service that met the Concorde‘s arrival in JFK.

[Daverwr]

The B747 was always my favorite aircraft. It’s sad that virtually all airlines have phased out the aircraft. But, it’s happened before with the flying living room (first class, anyway) the L1011. Alas, I’ll have to find a new favorite aircraft.

 

I also remember flying on British Airways Concorde, the slim bullet. It was tight and I would not have wanted to do it weekly. BA realized how tight it was for their meal service for all 99 passengers at the same time that they started offering meals in the Lounge prior to the flight hoping people would not ask for another one on board.

Edited July 22, 2020 by Daverwr

[Guest]

....

I also remember flying on British Airways Concorde, the slim bullet...

At prices significantly above first class, consider me impressed! Maybe you should change your avatar...

Edited July 23, 2020 by Unicorn

[Guest]

https://www.flyertalk.com/articles/boeing-737-max-recertification-could-come-by-october-2020.html?utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=

[MscleLovr]

Today I read that the 737-MAX re-certification may come as early as October. I’m with @gallahadesquire as I will never trust that aircraft enough to fly on it.

 

And today Flyertalk reports that Southwest hopes to reintroduce the 737-MAX

https://www.flyertalk.com/articles/southwest-airlines-hopes-to-fly-737-max-by-end-of-2020.html?utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=

[Otto]

I am reading articles that the FAA says 737's could have dual engine failure, after being brought out of storage.

 

Will it ever fly is right. This thread has aged well!

[Otto]

I am reading articles that the FAA says 737's could have dual engine failure, after being brought out of storage.

 

Will it ever fly is right. This thread has aged well!

[mike carey]

Will it ever fly is right. This thread has aged well!

It has indeed, in as far as its use for the 737MAX rolling clusterf**k is concerned, but the thread title was less prescient when one notes that it started out in 2009 to discuss difficulties Boeing was then having with the B787.

[mike carey]

Will it ever fly is right. This thread has aged well!

It has indeed, in as far as its use for the 737MAX rolling clusterf**k is concerned, but the thread title was less prescient when one notes that it started out in 2009 to discuss difficulties Boeing was then having with the B787.