What went wrong?

[SecretProvider]

Because I have time today, The red flags listed: 

- I'm new.  (for reasons mentioned above) 

- creating a new profile to reach out. (this is often done by spam bots who create new accounts daily, or seasoned tire kickers who know if we see how old/visit the profile they have had means they wouldn't be messaging this way if they were genuine.)

-Not answering the very simple yet important question, which had to be asked THREE TIMES - what do you want to do? What do you get into? What do you like to do when it comes to gay sex? (could be answered in a non-explicit way, although to be fair I despise when people answer with 'i'm looking to have fun' because what the hell does that mean) For me this was the biggest red flag. 

- asking questions that are already answered on his profile no1 - (do you do bb)  listed on our profiles as safe only/ask me/anything goes. Maybe this provider had 'ask me' as his answer but the following two points would suggest that is not the case. 

- asking questions that are already answered on his profile no2 - (are you neg) If he has taken the time to set up a new profile to reach out, why wouldn't he have read the providers stats?  He was elongating the conversation for interaction. 

- asking questions that are already answered on his profile no3  - asking the provider what THEY are into (this a common theme for the tire kickers trying to elicit free conversation of sexual nature. You tell us what YOU like, what we 'like' other than getting paid is irrelevant and the truthful answer is probably not fucking you)  

- asking sexual questions with obvious answers  - do you like to breed. (find me one top who would say 'no i hate it')

- He asked about traveling and hosting, despite later saying he only wanted to travel.  Why would he ask about both if he only wanted one. If he wanted the provider to host he would have said "i am looking for someone to host, where are you located?'  (example of elongating conversation instead of making a booking) 

- "and other services?" This is a classic way to get conversation instead of booking. Real client would say 'i saw you list available for videos, can i ask what you allow?" or " i would be really interested in filming some of our encounter, is that included in a session?" these questions would provide an answer, but that is not what he wanted - he wanted to explore conversations ABOUT making videos, rather than meeting and actually doing it. 

I hope this illustrates more about how the language of his texts were trying to get a conversation rather than firm down a booking. Does only one of these things mean automatic red flag block and ignore? Of course not. But the sum is greater than the parts, and after a while you start to be able to spot them easier.

 

Edited Monday at 05:17 PM by SecretProvider

[+ SirBillybob]

Without seeing the ad it’s impossible to ascertain whether the client’s logistical questions were mostly superfluous, apart from the titty-bounce specificity. Each side sought needed guiding information. Any true forensic analysis can be little more than speculative. If so many matches seem made in purgatory on Groundhog Day, then think outside of the box.

Male inclination to sexual gratification that, for some, drives an erotic experience not culminating in appointments is also categorically what propels actual bookings by others. Horniness isn’t useful unless it’s imperative transcends logical control and ATM withdrawal misgivings. It’s the provider’s key resource and it’s often shallow and fickle. Don’t be a heat-seeking missile and grouse about the engineering. 

If vendors wish to economize on laborious setup energy output, then a detailed boilerplate response (even if seemingly duplicated from ad platform) that covers off typical inquiry content is the better playbook. A well constructed and worded mandate need not be individualized to come across as inviting. It can satisfy the type of descriptive service scaffolding that avoids legal liability. There’s this thing called ‘select and paste’, not excluding options for personalized flourishes. 

I once ran a consultation service. Its nature was broad enough to stimulate pre-booking questions about what to expect. That ambivalence was largely assuaged by what I believe is called in marketing terms preemptive copy, deflecting the need for hand-holding through the calendar interface. It told them what I’m cooking with and anticipated the questions that could be reasonably answered ahead of time. Very very rarely did prospective consumers seek feeling me out more thoroughly if they had taken a few minutes to read the written précis. 

Edited Monday at 09:12 PM by SirBillybob

[+ PhileasFogg]

@SecretProvider, I understand your frustration.  Please be assured that, in my 42 year financial career that included being both a newbie and getting my picture on a billboard in Times Square, I encountered plenty of time wasters.   Just like the prospectors of old, sometimes you dig a hole that comes up dry and sometimes you strike a rich vein of ore.  This is not unique to your business.

@marylander1940, I’m curious…I doubt this was your encounter.  Where’d this come from. 

[Luv2play]

1 hour ago, PhileasFogg said:

@SecretProvider, I understand your frustration.  Please be assured that, in my 42 year financial career that included being both a newbie and getting my picture on a billboard in Times Square, I encountered plenty of time wasters.   Just like the prospectors of old, sometimes you dig a hole that comes up dry and sometimes you strike a rich vein of ore.  This is not unique to your business.

@marylander1940, I’m curious…I doubt this was your encounter.  Where’d this come from. 

Good question.

[marylander1940]

2 hours ago, PhileasFogg said:

@SecretProvider, I understand your frustration.  Please be assured that, in my 42 year financial career that included being both a newbie and getting my picture on a billboard in Times Square, I encountered plenty of time wasters.   Just like the prospectors of old, sometimes you dig a hole that comes up dry and sometimes you strike a rich vein of ore.  This is not unique to your business.

@marylander1940, I’m curious…I doubt this was your encounter.  Where’d this come from. 

No, it was a conversation of a friend who escorts and a potential client. 

[+ PhileasFogg]

1 hour ago, marylander1940 said:

No, it was a conversation of a friend who escorts and a potential client. 

Nothing went wrong.  It wasn’t meant to be. 

[marylander1940]

On 5/16/2026 at 11:36 PM, Whoisyourdaddy said:

Communication has always been difficult for me. However, I never contact a provider unless I'm ready to meet them within thirty minutes. I'm showered, dressed, and ready to get into my car. If I have to get a hotel because he can't host, I'll order a rideshare, so I have time to acquire one. All my communication with a provider usually takes under five sentences and a few minutes.

That works 90% of the time. I usually run into trouble with providers who ask for numerous pictures and exorbitant deposits.

Me too, except when it comes to 30 minutes time frame, I usually prefer to meet them the day i contact them. Unfortunately some people love drama

[+ nycman]

16 hours ago, PhileasFogg said:

May I suggest you do a study of Hanlon’s Razor?

For those like me, who need a little help with this one…..

 "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

[mike carey]

1 hour ago, nycman said:

For those like me, who need a little help with this one…..

 "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

This reminds me of a similar epigram, that if it's a choice between a conspiracy and a cock-up, it'll be a cock-up 99% of the time. Or perhaps it's the same epigram.

[viewing ownly]

The back-and-forth seemed to be far too lengthy. You liked what you saw in his ad, so you should arrange a date and time, then be done with it save for a same day follow-up to confirm. Work out the pec flex kinks and other wants and desires in person.

The general rule of thumb is, more and more pre-appointment questions that get asked, the less likely the meet-up will materialize. I detested playing 20 questions with prospective clients (non-escort or masseur, but this applies to just about anyone offering a service). I KNEW that they weren't going to even bother following through. 

[+ azdr0710]

1 hour ago, mike carey said:

This reminds me of a similar epigram, that if it's a choice between a conspiracy and a cock-up, it'll be a cock-up 99% of the time. Or perhaps it's the same epigram.

from an AI inquiry.....

In British English, a cock-up is an informal term for a mess, a blunder, or a disastrous mistake caused by incompetence, disorganization, or poor communication. It is the equivalent of a "screw-up" or "fuck-up" in American slang.

[Aedo]

1 hour ago, viewing ownly said:

The back-and-forth seemed to be far too lengthy. You liked what you saw in his ad, so you should arrange a date and time, then be done with it save for a same day follow-up to confirm. Work out the pec flex kinks and other wants and desires in person.

The general rule of thumb is, more and more pre-appointment questions that get asked, the less likely the meet-up will materialize. I detested playing 20 questions with prospective clients (non-escort or masseur, but this applies to just about anyone offering a service). I KNEW that they weren't going to even bother following through. 

This was an unusual case though, with an HIV client wanting bareback sex. That's not something that you can wait until the session to reveal to a provider. 

The generous interpretation of this situation is that you had a hesitant, sensitive client who wasn't handled daintily by the provider. The less generous interpretation is that the client was so hesitant and sensitive that he never would have met no matter how the provider spoke. Hard to say.
 

[+ PhileasFogg]

8 hours ago, nycman said:

For those like me, who need a little help with this one…..

 "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

In this case, I’d suggest the application is that this client did not wake up that day thinking “who’s time can I waste today” but, whether through poor composition of the message, simplemindedness, angst, fear, uncertainty, inexperience, etc -that was the result.

As @SecretProvider implies, I hear from other guys that in the first two texts, they can tell whether someone is serious or not.   I believe that to be completely true.  In this case, it did not develop into endless texts or requests for pics etc…but those are the ones easy to spot!

The challenge is responding in a manner that meets them where they are - uninformed, scared, inexperienced, etc - and gets them talking…then they probably have a client for life IF the provider has the time/tolerance to develop the lead. 

[marylander1940]

8 hours ago, viewing ownly said:

The back-and-forth seemed to be far too lengthy. You liked what you saw in his ad, so you should arrange a date and time, then be done with it save for a same day follow-up to confirm. Work out the pec flex kinks and other wants and desires in person.

The general rule of thumb is, more and more pre-appointment questions that get asked, the less likely the meet-up will materialize. I detested playing 20 questions with prospective clients (non-escort or masseur, but this applies to just about anyone offering a service). I KNEW that they weren't going to even bother following through. 

Exactly!

keep it simple and to the point, this was waaay too much drama!

[Jacob_b]

I'm curious, what if there was an additional chat messaging service?

[+ PhileasFogg]

5 hours ago, Jacob_b said:

I'm curious, what if there was an additional chat messaging service?

Like some of the many others that already exist??

[ThrowawayAccount]

On 5/18/2026 at 1:08 PM, SecretProvider said:

As I mentioned in my post - it is a regular occurrence that 'clients' message and say 'hey this is my first time reaching out' and then we discover evidence to the contrary. It was the first time-waster red-flag in his messages. Does it automatically mean he is lying? No. But more often than not it is fanciful and makes us proceed with caution. (re-read my post for examples of how we know this) 

You don't see any indication because you are a customer and not a worker. You have seen this message once, we see them daily all the time. We are professionals. A builder can spot defects on a wall much quicker than an untrained eye.

Trust me, there are many that simply looking at his pics while getting to text him and have him text back and just imagine what they could be doing together is sufficient - and best of all: FREE. As someone who  actually has experience and knowledge in these types interactions DAILY, there were things that raise red flags that you wouldn't see but we do. 

Yes you are right the provider COULD have sounded more excited "Oh I LOVE FLEXING MY PECS' 'YOU CREATED THE PROFILE TO MESSAGE ME? WHAT A COMPLIMENT' and the result would have been the same - except the "client" would have continued to ask him about underwear and flexing his pecs, maybe asking for more pics of it (im sure that was his next step) then jerked off to completion and the provider would have spent that energy unpaid.  

Every other person here on this thread who DOES hire has said they would reach out in a different way. Because they are not tire kickers. 

And Hanlons Razor? I would have agreed with this when I was a newbie. But these people are not stupid, they are very very smart. They know exactly what they are doing. 

As a person who has worked in sales, customer service, marketing and advertising, and a freelancer I can tell you providers are horrible at customer/client service.  Most providers think we should be messaging them and only them. As someone who likes to weigh his options, even hire multiple providers at once or even find a handful of regulars, if I ask what your profile is and you don't send me a link or tell me the name,  that tells me you really don't want to be hired.

Faceless pics? Or won't send a facepic in a way that you can view it at least once to me means chances are you're not attractive enough for the rate you're charging. 

High deposits? If I haven't seen your face Pic or great nudes either in your profile or DMs, then you're not getting a deposit. Choosing to not advertise yourself to catch the eye of the potential client tells me you want to take the deposit and not meet. This has happened to me several times where the provider would ask for a deposit and I break my rule about not providing one, and then ghost.

Telling me payment on arrival? You're not being paid to show up. You're being paid to spend at least an hour with me on activities we agree and consent to. I had providers who took the payment, got dressed, then left. Or one provider in Texas (who i see lives in miami) spent 10 minutes with me, asked for the full payment, then left. Also on this note,  I had a regular provider ask me to stay and help him because he was uncomfortable with the other provider that was hired...he also felt it was strange that provider wouldn't start the season without being paid in advance. 

Won't verify that their pictures are really them in some way?  Twice in NYC I ubered to a hotel only to find that the person answering the door wasn't the person in the pictures and when I chose not to have the appointment, they blocked the door and also invited their friend out of the bathroom trying to coerce me to pay. Or the times, twice, I was hiring for a threesome with a regular and a visiting guy and he wasnt even the person in the pictures. 

I find having a conversation on what I like, expect, etc is crucial to me weeding out the providers who want to take the money and run, or provide poor services they are getting paid for. 

What i don't think providers understand, or care about, is the clients are the ones paying your bills and buying your luxuries.  I'm finding you guys need to be better at presenting yourself to a potential client so you get them to book you. You're basically working like a car salesman. Not everyone, or maybe most people, won't buy the car. That's part of the business, like it or not.  My conversations are to avoid all of the above so I don't waste money that. 

I had a regular provider in Cleveland recently who I felt we clicked on our first meeting. We met a second time. It was great. Beginning the third time he was telling me about his sugar daddy who asked him what he needed money for and he went off on him.  His sugar daddy left him. Then as he was taking his time prepping for our appointment while I was there,  on the clock, he started getting mad that I was frustrated he wasn't already ready which turned into a conversation, no joke, about him wanting his mother to die so he can get his inheritance and if she didn't die soon enough,  he would kill her himself. He was also an animal abuser and I had saved one of his cats that he was throwing outside in the snow.  I didn't have a conversation with this provider before meeting him because you don't have many choices in Cleveland. I wish I had spent more off the clock time vetting him and nothing came up in the research, but had a few good reviews.