samhexum Posted February 3 Author Posted February 3 45 minutes ago, Rudynate said: When I was in high school, lots of us had after-school jobs. The girls did filing or answered phones in offices and the boys pumped gas Wasn't that part of the plot of a recent Ryan Murphy miniseries? pubic_assistance 1
Archangel Posted February 3 Posted February 3 @Rudynate – My nephew (He’s in first grade) is do 2-digit multiplication and learning about the solar system, complete with the moons of Saturn and Jupiter. (He likes it, but that’s a separate point altogether.) On top of that, he is taught all about navigating the internet to find information. In first grade…I had computer lab time in NINTH grade, if I remember correctly, for the first time. He had worksheets for homework in kindergarten and now multi-day projects. In first grade. I don’t remember multi-day projects til high school. What were you doing in first grade? The demands of school today are much higher (more neutrally, different) than when you were younger, I’m going to guess. These kids have high expectations placed on them as much as they have things handed to them. When do they have the time to do well in school and have an after-school job that might pay for a pair of shoes if they work all week… Further, I personally just don’t like the idea of kids working. School is their job. Adults work all day. Come home. Do housework. Rub errands. Relax. Why should kids go to school all day and then work afterwards? And before we get too judgmental about young people expecting the world on a platter for nothing – this is a forum where we pay guys simply for looking nice and fucking us. Many here have applauded the likes of Reno Gold for his success. I’m betting if he didn’t do what he does, he’d be just like any of these run-of-the-mill young people you’re disparaging. mike carey, MikeBiDude, + Charlie and 1 other 2 2
mike carey Posted February 3 Posted February 3 On the subject of omelettes, cooking involves knowledge of science, and we have seen accounts here of people of all ages having no idea about cooking or what is involved, even the science of operating a can opener. In the actual cooking process, sometimes there are tricky processes, what makes dough rise, eggs stay frothy when cooked, meat stay or be made tender, others are simple. Cooking a proper omelette is complex, the pan needs to be right, the eggs beaten into a froth and it needs to be cooked properly to remain aerated. An American omelette is much less so, beaten eggs on a hot flat surface and folded up when it's done. Not being able to make such a dish, or to boil an egg is unfortunate but neither is instinctive, they have to be learnt so is a bit concerning, but there were always people who were unable to do so. 7 hours ago, marylander1940 said: What about your brother? Why do you ask? Maybe he doesn't have a brother, or his brother is not married to this inept woman. Archangel and MikeBiDude 1 1
cany10011 Posted February 3 Posted February 3 8 hours ago, marylander1940 said: What about your brother? no doubt! Never before a younger generation had so much influence in the lives of the entire society because the creation of new technologies, apps, disruptive industries (Airbnb, Uber), etc. For the record I agree that some of the criticism expressed in this thread about Gen Z, and by extension Millennials is accurate. My sister in law has 2 nannies. One for herself and one for her daughter. My poor brother is the slave that pays for it all. She wakes up at 11 and does nothing. My brother thinks my massage chair is better than sex… which is a disturbing thought. marylander1940, pubic_assistance, Lotus-eater and 1 other 1 2 1
marylander1940 Posted February 3 Posted February 3 9 hours ago, cany10011 said: My sister in law does not even know how to use a can opener, nor does she do laundry. 8 hours ago, marylander1940 said: What about your brother? 12 minutes ago, mike carey said: Why do you ask? Maybe he doesn't have a brother, or his brother is not married to this inept woman. His brother is married to that woman, making her his sister-in-law. In some relationships men cook more than women. 4 minutes ago, cany10011 said: My sister in law has 2 nannies. One for herself and one for her daughter. My poor brother is the slave that pays for it all. She wakes up at 11 and does nothing. My brother thinks my massage chair is better than sex… which is a disturbing thought. I'm sorry to hear about your brother. Is up to him to change it or not. cany10011 1
mike carey Posted February 3 Posted February 3 3 minutes ago, marylander1940 said: His brother is married to that woman, making her his sister-in-law. He didn't mention his brother, or say who his sister-in-law is married to. It could equally be his wife's sister. Of course you may be correct in your assumption, but at this stage an assumption is all that it is. marylander1940 1
marylander1940 Posted February 3 Posted February 3 (edited) 1 minute ago, mike carey said: He didn't mention his brother, or say who his sister-in-law is married to. It could equally be his wife's sister. Of course you may be correct in your assumption, but at this stage an assumption is all that it is. I assumed @cany10011 brother was straight! I guess I was right. Most lesbians have better and more functional relationships. Edited February 3 by marylander1940 mike carey and pubic_assistance 1 1
samhexum Posted February 3 Author Posted February 3 1 hour ago, marylander1940 said: I assumed @cany10011 brother was straight! mike carey, pubic_assistance and marylander1940 3
Archangel Posted February 4 Posted February 4 (edited) 6 hours ago, marylander1940 said: Most lesbians have better and more functional relationships. Sometimes I wonder where in the hell you come up with ideas. I do not care to know, but the blundering assurance with which you make your claims is astounding at times… Edited February 4 by Archangel mike carey and MikeBiDude 2
Rudynate Posted February 4 Posted February 4 12 hours ago, Vegas_Millennial said: Most filing jobs are gone, as data is stored directly in the computer as its created. As for answering phones, many companies don't even list a telephone number, expecting customers to do business via a website or download an application. For boys, there are no full service gas stations left that I am aware of, and part-time every-level jobs in restaurants have been taken over by kiosks. These jobs used to be a great way for young people with little experience to work part time to earn some money and gain experience. But as demands for "liveable" wages for entry-level part-time jobs came to fruition, so did the replacement of these jobs with automation. Just another example of how well-intentioned older generations harmed the next generation by trying to make things easier for them.
Rudynate Posted February 4 Posted February 4 Just now, Rudynate said: 12 hours ago, Vegas_Millennial said: Most filing jobs are gone, as data is stored directly in the computer as its created. As for answering phones, many companies don't even list a telephone number, expecting customers to do business via a website or download an application. For boys, there are no full service gas stations left that I am aware of, and part-time every-level jobs in restaurants have been taken over by kiosks. These jobs used to be a great way for young people with little experience to work part time to earn some money and gain experience. But as demands for "liveable" wages for entry-level part-time jobs came to fruition, so did the replacement of these jobs with automation. Just another example of how well-intentioned older generations harmed the next generation by trying to make things easier for them. Well no, of course they aren't going to do 20th century work in the 21st century. But the princple is transferrable from that time to now. . Now, those are highly-paid union jobs
Rudynate Posted February 4 Posted February 4 7 minutes ago, Rudynate said: Well no, of course they aren't going to do 20th century work in the 21st century. But the princple is transferrable from that time to now. . Now, those are highly-paid union jobs I googled the question "Do many kids now have after-school jobs?" This is part of the AI-generated response: Increased trend: Recent data suggests a growing number of teenagers are actively seeking and holding after-school jobs, reversing a previous trend where fewer teens worked. Benefits of working: Having a part-time job can help teens develop valuable skills like time management, responsibility, customer service, and financial literacy. + Pensant, CuriousByNature and + Vegas_Millennial 2 1
CuriousByNature Posted February 4 Posted February 4 9 hours ago, Archangel said: @Rudynate – My nephew (He’s in first grade) is do 2-digit multiplication and learning about the solar system, complete with the moons of Saturn and Jupiter. (He likes it, but that’s a separate point altogether.) On top of that, he is taught all about navigating the internet to find information. In first grade…I had computer lab time in NINTH grade, if I remember correctly, for the first time. He had worksheets for homework in kindergarten and now multi-day projects. In first grade. I don’t remember multi-day projects til high school. What were you doing in first grade? The demands of school today are much higher (more neutrally, different) than when you were younger, I’m going to guess. These kids have high expectations placed on them as much as they have things handed to them. When do they have the time to do well in school and have an after-school job that might pay for a pair of shoes if they work all week… Further, I personally just don’t like the idea of kids working. School is their job. Adults work all day. Come home. Do housework. Rub errands. Relax. Why should kids go to school all day and then work afterwards? And before we get too judgmental about young people expecting the world on a platter for nothing – this is a forum where we pay guys simply for looking nice and fucking us. Many here have applauded the likes of Reno Gold for his success. I’m betting if he didn’t do what he does, he’d be just like any of these run-of-the-mill young people you’re disparaging. I think you raise a very valid point. Kids are learning a whole new set of info today compared to GenX'ers like me. And the workload in school is ridiculously heavy. Things I didn't learn until high school are now being taught in early junior high (middle school). I don't recall having homework until grade 6 or 7 - now kids in early primary are having to do research projects. Yet fewer and fewer people seem to be adequately prepared for the real world when they finish school. It may seem that I take a strong negative position against many GenZ'ers, but it's their attitudes that I find appalling. This is not their doing, but is because their parents created fearfulness, entitlement and unrealistic expectations about life. It's very unfortunate.
CuriousByNature Posted February 4 Posted February 4 (edited) 7 hours ago, cany10011 said: My brother thinks my massage chair is better than sex… What make of massage chair do you have? I should invest in one and maybe I'll finally get lucky. Edited February 4 by CuriousByNature pubic_assistance and + DrownedBoy 2
Rudynate Posted February 4 Posted February 4 20 hours ago, Archangel said: @Rudynate – My nephew (He’s in first grade) is do 2-digit multiplication and learning about the solar system, complete with the moons of Saturn and Jupiter. (He likes it, but that’s a separate point altogether.) On top of that, he is taught all about navigating the internet to find information. In first grade…I had computer lab time in NINTH grade, if I remember correctly, for the first time. He had worksheets for homework in kindergarten and now multi-day projects. In first grade. I don’t remember multi-day projects til high school. What were you doing in first grade? The demands of school today are much higher (more neutrally, different) than when you were younger, I’m going to guess. These kids have high expectations placed on them as much as they have things handed to them. When do they have the time to do well in school and have an after-school job that might pay for a pair of shoes if they work all week… Further, I personally just don’t like the idea of kids working. School is their job. Adults work all day. Come home. Do housework. Rub errands. Relax. Why should kids go to school all day and then work afterwards? And before we get too judgmental about young people expecting the world on a platter for nothing – this is a forum where we pay guys simply for looking nice and fucking us. Many here have applauded the likes of Reno Gold for his success. I’m betting if he didn’t do what he does, he’d be just like any of these run-of-the-mill young people you’re disparaging. I don't doubt that kids work harder in school than my generation did. It always seemed to me that school was deliberately dumbed-down, and I kept waiting for it to become challenging. It never did until the last couple years of high school. So I would hope that school is more challenging for kids than it was for me.
+ Charlie Posted February 4 Posted February 4 Personal computers weren't invented until I was middle-aged, which is why most schoolkids today can operate them better than I can. In fact, I was in the third grade the first time I saw a (black-and-white) television. I didn't have much exposure to the world outside my own small town. The only learning aids I saw were books. I learned how to type on a manual typewriter, and I didn't have one till I was in college. Schooling at all levels was very different for Gen Z than it was for me. After school activity was also different. I played games with other kids rather than games interacting with machines of any kind. There were no mobile phones to distract me. The only things I watched on TV, other than Howdy Doody, were the same programs my parents watched, and until I was a teenager, the music I listened to was the music my parents listened to. Kids lived much more in their parents' world rather than in a separate one of their own, as many of them do now. If kids worked after school, it was in menial jobs that served adults, like cutting grass or delivering newspapers. In many places, those jobs are now done by other adults who need the money. Pumping gas is done by the driver himself, if he doesn't have an electric vehicle, and many people read their newspapers online. The world in which Gen Z w grew up is different from the world in which I grew up, so it is not surprising that they see it differently than older generations do. samhexum, Rudynate, Luv2play and 4 others 2 1 4
+ sniper Posted February 4 Posted February 4 Eh, being in the last quarter/third of my career after having made a conscious choice not to chase the brass ring and stay at the individual contributor level, the corporate BS is thicker than ever these days. Senior execs with zero operational experience wave their hands and break both processes AND the internal talent pipeline with endless reorgs, jacking up their own pay while suppressing wages at the middle and bottom. I had a top performer who got promoted and their raise, the highest percentagewise in their function in the company, was still well under the CPI that year. And this was a year the stock did well. And senior management expresses shock at the results of the employee engagement survey, then demands explanations from managers. Employees not giving a shit is as much the chickens coming home to roost as the deficits of Gen Z. Companies do NOT train people like they used to and wonder why people don't know how to do things or mistakes get made when they cut the number of people to check the work before it goes out the door. samhexum, Archangel, + Pensant and 2 others 4 1
+ sniper Posted February 4 Posted February 4 Outside of a relative handful of jobs that frankly most people of any age simply can't do, entry level wages are down in real terms from 30 years ago despite more of these jobs demanding a college degree. Gen Z didn't do that...the "Silent Generation"(who really don't get the credit they should as villains for setting all this in motion with destroying private pensions and propagating the notion that absolutely nothing other than shareholder return should be a consideration in corporate behavior), Boomers, and Gen X did. Archangel, + Charlie and Luv2play 3
Archangel Posted February 4 Posted February 4 @sniper – Also a good observation. It used to be that employers cared about their employees. Now the employer wants employees to be cheerleaders (positive attitude) with less real benefit. Why should I invest emotionally, relationally, and psychologically in an enterprise that only sees me as impersonal capital and an expendable, replaceable liability at that? It used to be you could graduate high school, get a job, and earn enough in 40 hours a week to be comfortable and for all intents and purposes be content. Compare that to a report I heard on NPR before the pandemic about a salary (not entire benefits package) required to afford a studio in Boston: $70k. A studio. I’m sure it’s more since the pandemic. For comparison, $70k in 2019 had the same buying power as $11k in 1970. + m_writer 1
Archangel Posted February 4 Posted February 4 5 hours ago, Rudynate said: I don't doubt that kids work harder in school than my generation did. It always seemed to me that school was deliberately dumbed-down, and I kept waiting for it to become challenging. It never did until the last couple years of high school. So I would hope that school is more challenging for kids than it was for me. The trade-off is an opportunity cost. More challenging school means less time for other things, like after-school jobs. Don’t even get me started on extracurriculars…I feel about them almost the same way I do for after-school jobs. Children should be focused on their education. My opinion. Full stop.
Rudynate Posted February 5 Posted February 5 1 hour ago, Archangel said: The trade-off is an opportunity cost. More challenging school means less time for other things, like after-school jobs. Don’t even get me started on extracurriculars…I feel about them almost the same way I do for after-school jobs. Children should be focused on their education. My opinion. Full stop. I went to good schools in suburban districts in New York state, which was supposed to be second only to California in the quality of its public education. samhexum 1
+ sniper Posted February 5 Posted February 5 What amazes me is how many parents get suckered into travel sports teams for 8 year olds. + Vegas_Millennial and + Pensant 1 1
Archangel Posted February 5 Posted February 5 3 hours ago, Rudynate said: I went to good schools in suburban districts in New York state, which was supposed to be second only to California in the quality of its public education. I fail to understand what you’re trying to say. Because you went to a good school and had a job, kids today who have more demands placed on them in worse schools than you did in a good school should still work an after-school job? I don’t understand how that follows? Even if they are getting an inferior education than you received but are still expected to do more than you, they still have to perform in today’s world – not according to the standards you went to school under – in order to succeed at school, their present reality, not some future they may or may not be well prepared for. Expecting them to have an after-school job on top of more academic demands is frankly ignorant, contemptuous, and unrealistic. It’s like you want to set the kids up to fail and then want to blame them for doing precisely that.
+ sniper Posted February 5 Posted February 5 (edited) I was on the leading edge(late 80s) of the trend of throwing bullshit work into honors classes in the late 80s, and as a senior working 20-30 hours a week, I was exhausted -and pissed I was gettimg knocked down a grade in calculus over homework when everyone who did have the time to do it was copying anyway. They added a lot of nonsense to schoolwork that has zero instructional value but correlates highly with coming from a well-to-do family with parents who have the time to do some of the work for you. And this trend continued unabated....I saw it with my nieces and nephews even in their "regular" classes. The amount of time they spend on stupid art-type projects when they can't tell you to what 7 times 9 is without a goddam calculator while doing their precalc homework is insane. Edited February 5 by sniper + DrownedBoy 1
ShortCutie7 Posted February 5 Posted February 5 Millennial here… I got HOURS and HOURS of homework every night from third grade or so on. Between homework, studying for tests, and rehearsing/practicing for my arts-focused classes (I went to specialized schools for JHS and HS), there was no time for an after school job. My friends who did have after school jobs suffered academically and did not graduate on time. Archangel and CuriousByNature 2
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