Gay Repellent

[ericwinters]

Are any of you in a similar bucket as me?

I don't have any real gay friends. Of course, there are gay men and lesbian women that I'm friendly with... But I've never been one of those guys that hung out in the gay pack of guys at the club, sauna, beach, and so on.

Yes, I'm out. I founded my gay student group at college in the early 90's. So, it is not that I'm in the closet.

I've lived in big cities nearly my entire life. I am from a very closed and culturally conservative area of Pennsylvania with draconian German ideas, but I left there in 1990.

If there were gay bug spray, I'd be the number-one-selling brand. 

But seriously, does anyone else identify with me?

[+ ApexNomad]

Unless you’re wearing Drakkar Noir, you’re not a gay repellant! 😊 Not every gay person finds themselves in the typical social circles or ‘gay packs’ often associated with the LGBTQ+ community. Everyone’s experience is different. Being out doesn’t necessarily mean gravitating toward certain spaces or groups—some people don’t feel connected to the club or sauna culture, etc. and that’s okay.

What you’re describing sounds like more of a personal preference in how you connect with others. It’s important to find the types of friendships that feel authentic to you, regardless of whether they align with the more common social experiences of other gay men. Have you found spaces where you can relate to people on a deeper level, outside of just sexuality—like shared hobbies, work, volunteer groups, or even online communities focused on things you’re passionate about?

It’s about finding what feels comfortable and meaningful for you.

[pubic_assistance]

3 hours ago, ericwinters said:

does anyone else identify with me?

Yup. I'm also Pennsylvania Deitsch. Grew up religious conservative. Moved to NYC at 25 years old. 28 years later I still have very few gay friends. I am however bisexual myself and married with kids..but identified as "gay" in my late 20s...and did all the night clubs / sex clubs and had lots of gay friends at one time. Unfortunately my experience is that gays are not as loyal as my straight friends unless you're a complete clone of themselves.

If you don't spend all your time doing "gay things" they will abandon you. Try having a couple of kids and they will all send expensive baby gifts, beautifully wrapped and then you will never hear from them again. 😕

It's mostly (in MY experience) a lifestyle overlap issue. If you don't hang out every night at the local gay bar and go to every Broadway show, they don't know how to socialize with you...so they don't.

Most of the few gay friends that I DO still have tend to be highly educated, and well traveled and more interested in life outside the gay bar. Those are hard to find...but they're out there. Even on C.o.M. I have cyber-met a few nice fellows who take an interest in my life in spite of it being different from their own, while the small majority can get pretty nasty and dismissive when you disagree with them.

 

Edited October 14, 2024 by pubic_assistance
spelling

[Rudynate]

59 minutes ago, pubic_assistance said:

.\the few gay friends that I DO still have tend to be highly educated, and well traveled and more interested in life outside the gay bar. Those are hard to find...but they're out there. Even on C.o.M. I have cyber-met a few nice fellows who take an interest in my life in spite of it being different from their own, while the small majority can get pretty nasty and dismissive when you disagree with them.

 

They are more common than you would think.  They pop up all over the place. 

[+ Charlie]

Leaving out the "gay," do you have any real friends? Where did you find them? How do you keep them? What is it about them that makes you consider them "friends"? It's hard to believe you can't find more people like them who also happen to be gay. My friends are usually people with whom I share common interests and values, and I have usually met them as a result of having similar backgrounds and experiences, regardless of their sexual orientation.

[+ DynamicUno]

I've come to a point over the past several years where I don't have a circle of gay friends who are local to me.  This is because several things have happened including:

• Moving cities a couple times, ending up in a midwestern city that lacks a strong gay center
• The gay friends I had from where I lived before have also dispersed as work and life events have scattered them about
• I've settled in a suburban part of town that is not close to many gay social amenities, and I do not particularly want to drive 20 miles to a sketchy part of town to go to a bar
• Engaging with social groups (gay or otherwise) outside of work or my neighborhood have become more difficult over the past couple of decades due to changes in work culture and more personal demands on time

To be fair, it's not just gay friends, but building a new social circle in general has become more difficult in the past several years.  I'm now working in a position where I'm completely remote and do not have to go into an office at all.  I'm also away from home frequently, so structured after-work activities can be a little challenging.  Also, if you live in suburban America, a lot of the social avenues are oriented around kids activities or religious institutions, and other community outlets tend to be less consistent.  I have considered moving to another city that has more social avenues, but I'm waiting for some other issues to settle down before I consider another move.

I do have a circle of gay friends who've scattered to the four winds who I still keep in contact with, but it is not the same as having people close to you in your community.  

 

 

[+ Jamie21]

I can identify, although I think maybe you are believing the pictures that others present. They’re not necessarily reality. 

I have some gay friends but I don’t tend to hang out with them at the club, sauna, beach etc like you describe. I don’t do that with my straight friends either…and the groups do mix. How I spend my time with friends doesn’t have much to do with our sexual orientation. I’m not bothered about going to gay clubs, or gay themed events. If the event is of interest to me then I’ll go regardless of whether it’s a gay or straight event. 

I think you’re not unusual nor do you have a gay bug spray! You don’t need to live in a gay social bubble or do only ‘gay things’ with gay friends. Do what you want with who you want. I accept that my attitude is probably extreme because I refuse to be part of any group (my contrarian streak) but I think you shouldn’t worry about what others seem to be doing. Just do things you like with people you like and ignore the gay / straight labels. 
 

[TonyDown]

I agree with most of what everyone posted.

Demands on time is part of the challenge.

Where I came from, my family of origin and lack of diversity in people and in worldview impacted my ability to strike up new friendships as I ventured into the world.   Moving away long ago, to the West Coast, was helpful.

Everywhere out here I've lived, Oregon, Bay Area, and SoCal,  I've made good friends.   But I've learned after moving or switching companies,  that folks are not apt to keep in touch.  It takes work.  I get it though. People only have so much time.

Having a gaggle of bar friends isn't my scene.  I do have a group of friends, including a straight guy and straight woman and some gay dudes.   They are all single.  We have common interests and enjoy time together.   But I live further out from the city so the drive for me can be exhausting.

I do the best I can, and when it seems like that isn't enough I own that.

My sense is anybody can feel isolated.  Yes maybe being gay feels like a disadvantage, but should it? 

Lastly, COVID derailed some social activities that never got going again.  

Edited October 14, 2024 by TonyDown

[Rudynate]

8 hours ago, Charlie said:

Leaving out the "gay," do you have any real friends? Where did you find them? How do you keep them? What is it about them that makes you consider them "friends"? It's hard to believe you can't find more people like them who also happen to be gay. My friends are usually people with whom I share common interests and values, and I have usually met them as a result of having similar backgrounds and experiences, regardless of their sexual orientation.

Exactly - I'm not really in the market for gay friends.  If they happen to be gay, that's great.

[ICTJOCK]

Certainly there is some identification with you for sure.   I have a number of friends and when I came out (in my 20's),  I naively thought,  "I'll have guys I really identify with and add a bunch".      The reality is,   I tend to be very friendly with those  (gay or straight)  that I share education,  interests,  ideas,  view of life and other similarities.      An older gay friend (who was a staff member at my college when I was a student)   once told me,   "I'm different,  but you are really unusual for a gay man".    He was right.   I probably have more in common in many cases,    with straight guys.    Career work and goals keep my time with friends limited,  but I do get out and see many,  some are straight,  some gay,   

Edited October 15, 2024 by ICTJOCK

[soloyo215]

On 10/14/2024 at 6:30 AM, ericwinters said:

Are any of you in a similar bucket as me?

I don't have any real gay friends. Of course, there are gay men and lesbian women that I'm friendly with... But I've never been one of those guys that hung out in the gay pack of guys at the club, sauna, beach, and so on.

Yes, I'm out. I founded my gay student group at college in the early 90's. So, it is not that I'm in the closet.

I've lived in big cities nearly my entire life. I am from a very closed and culturally conservative area of Pennsylvania with draconian German ideas, but I left there in 1990.

If there were gay bug spray, I'd be the number-one-selling brand. 

But seriously, does anyone else identify with me?

Kind of. I have gay friends, some for decades, but what we have in common is that we're not that much into "the community", if can call it that. What I see in the newer generation of the community is as much hate and discriminatory behavior than the conservative side shows, so to me is quite off-putting.

In my experience, many gay men don't feel very comfortable with me due to their judgemental, biased and stereotyping attitudes, not to mention how abrasive I become when they rub me the wrong way. I'm not going to change, and they're not going to change either, hence, I only have a handful of gay friends.

[+ Charlie]

This thread made me reflect about my gay friendships. My best friend (not just best gay friend) from high school till his death from AIDS in his 50s, came from different social backgrounds, but we had the same teachers, were good at the same subjects, went to the same kind of college, lived in the same kinds of cities, and passionately enjoyed the same kind of music. My best gay friend from college was a year behind me, of a different race and economic background, but we majored in the same subject and pursued the same type of career (unfortunately, he died only a week after the previous friend). My best gay friend from work, and for many years afterwards, was several years older than I was and had a very different background, but we were interested in the same things outside work and enjoyed traveling together to the same places. Common backgrounds, interests and experiences--and being gay was certainly an important part of those experiences--were always the keys to establishing a friendship, but I think something else about being gay was also important: we were not interested in a sexual relationship with one another, nor did we sexually compete with one another for other gay men. We also had good social relationships with one another's friends.

Both persons being gay is a reasonable starting point for a friendship, but it is not enough. My gay neighbors in the house on one side of me are charming; my gay neighbor in the house on the other side of me is younger and better looking, but he's an asshole.

[Rudynate]

On 10/14/2024 at 5:40 AM, pubic_assistance said:

Try having a couple of kids and they will all send expensive baby gifts, beautifully wrapped and then you will never hear from them again. 😕

 

 

Do you try to look them up?  They may have felt abandoned when you left the life and became too busy for them with wife and family. I remember many years ago, I was friends with a straight guy that I had been in the military with - he and his wife just sort of turned up in the city where I was living because he was going to go to graduate school there.  We got together regularly to get high and party, like the old days, but his wife wasn't comfortable with it. He finished graduate school, got a great job, they bought a house in a cushy suburb and started pumping out kids and we saw a lot less of each other. Occasionally we would run into each other and I got the feeling that he and his wife just really wanted to move on and we never saw each other anymore.  I saw a notice in the paper a few years ago that he had retired and he was unrecognizable in his photo - an anonymous old guy with white hair.

Edited October 15, 2024 by Rudynate
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[pubic_assistance]

3 hours ago, Rudynate said:

Do you try to look them up? 

Some of them live a few blocks away.

They just can't be bothered coming around if they have to behave themselves in front of children.

[Rudynate]

14 hours ago, pubic_assistance said:

Some of them live a few blocks away.

They just can't be bothered coming around if they have to behave themselves in front of children.

Young children can be scary when you're not around them much. I hadn't been around young children in a long time. Then, my husband's niece had a child - a beautiful little girl.  I was uncomfortable around her until her second birthday party  - she wanted me to help her open her presents.  Somebody would hand her a present and she brought it over to me and we unwrapped it together.  Then we would go through the same thing with the next present.  The last time we got together for dinner, she insisted on sitting next to me and we chatted all the way through dinner. 

[pubic_assistance]

1 hour ago, Rudynate said:

Young children can be scary when you're not around them much.

Which is what I'm saying. Some gay men spend ALL their time disassociating themselves from the rest of humanity and only want to be in an all gay environment. SO they can't function with mainstream people and won't.  My wife and I aren't even what you'd call mainstream but once we had kids 90% of the gay friends disappeared.

[Rudynate]

12 minutes ago, pubic_assistance said:

Which is what I'm saying. Some gay men spend ALL their time disassociating themselves from the rest of humanity and only want to be in an all gay environment. SO they can't function with mainstream people and won't.  My wife and I aren't even what you'd call mainstream but once we had kids 90% of the gay friends disappeared.

I don't know  - maybe things are different in NYC.  Here gays have assimilated more or less. Even before that, I moved relatively freely between the straight world and the gay world.  Straight guys used to tell me I was a different kind of gay.

[pubic_assistance]

1 minute ago, Rudynate said:

maybe things are different in NYC.  Here gays have assimilated more or less.

It's different because of the large gay population. It allows them to spend all their time at gay bars, gay restaurants, gay clubs and even gay churches. In small town environments, that isn't an option.

[Rudynate]

6 minutes ago, pubic_assistance said:

It's different because of the large gay population. It allows them to spend all their time at gay bars, gay restaurants, gay clubs and even gay churches. In small town environments, that isn't an option.

Sure people can do that here in SF as well, but more and more, gay people aren't that interested in all gay all the time.

[pubic_assistance]

31 minutes ago, Rudynate said:

more and more, gay people aren't that interested in all gay all the time.

Well THAT would be a comforting thought if it were true. I always thought as time went by and the world became more accepting of homosexuality/bisexuality that people would be more comfortable to be themselves in any environment. But it almost seems to me that there are even MORE gay only venues in NYC than when I was younger.

[Rudynate]

Sure, there are gay bars, sex clubs, gay restaurants, gay churches, gay AA groups, gaybourhoods, etc.  You would never have to set foot outside of the Castro if you didn't want to, but not too many people elect to live that way.  New Year's Eve, there is a Black and White Ball that raises funds for the symphony. It is a VERY toney event - in addition to the bluebloods and old money, it is always full of same-sex couples in black-tie. Everybody shares the dance floor without giving it a thought. 

[pubic_assistance]

1 hour ago, Rudynate said:

It is a VERY toney event - in addition to the bluebloods and old money, it is always full of same-sex couples in black-tie. Everybody shares the dance floor without giving it a thought. 

I work in a luxury industry with very wealthy people. It would be more shocking to NOT see a few gay couples at their events.

[Rudynate]

17 hours ago, pubic_assistance said:

I work in a luxury industry with very wealthy people. It would be more shocking to NOT see a few gay couples at their events.

If you have all these "A" gays to run with, what is your issue?  Just don't worry about the ghetto gays.

[pubic_assistance]

2 minutes ago, Rudynate said:

If you have all these "A" gays to run with, what is your issue? 

I didn't say that I did.

I said, when my A-list clients host events there's always a few gay couples attending.

I didn't say they were MY friends.

A list or B list... it's been difficult for me to keep relationships going with gay men. I'm sure the gays who show up at these events make an effort to socialize based on the high level of wealth of my client. None of them make any effort to hang out with me.

[Rudynate]

It helps to know where you fit.  My husband had a client who he had a very friendly relationship with. The client was getting married to a woman whose family name is a household word.  Before he got married, my husband wanted to have the couple over for dinner.  He kept issuing invitations and they kept finding excuses to decline and he couldn't understand why.  I said, "I'm sorry, but they are telling you that they don't want to come."  He was dumb-founded, but he realized I was right and he realized that the client didn't see the relationship as a friendship but a friendly business relationship.