+ DrownedBoy Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 I have to add - if you're in a decent market, you shouldn't even have to think about negotiating. According to RM, there are 210 guys within a 50 mile radius who kiss, 63 of whom are currently available. It's not worth the time in that case. + APPLE1, + Vegas_Millennial and Your Man in Arlington 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWnyc Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 On 4/23/2024 at 12:55 PM, Medin said: Agreed....and I do consider that a luxury. Not too many other services we purchase that cost $300+/hour. The economics is fascinating for those that can make it work (that doesn’t mean lucrative - it’s just one of the few examples of very free market economics in labor and price clearance) Most female providers see very little of the sums charged Most regular service providing models (eg law, audit) see fees go to owners of the business who (unless sole or limited proprietors) aren’t actually on the frontlines dealing with clients who expect service based on the value of the fees to them When people say “I know my value”, with no disrespect to anyone intended, I roll my eyes a little - unless I’m sure they know what all the aspects of that word they have fully thought through. And I bite my tongue when I want to reply with something like: I know the value of what I’m prepared to hand over to anyone for anything as well, as I know what it took for me to earn it + APPLE1, + DrownedBoy, Medin and 2 others 2 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socurious Posted April 24 Author Share Posted April 24 (edited) On 3/27/2024 at 8:10 AM, Pensant said: Even in second-tier cities, we’re seeing $300, which is fair. I don’t mind $400 for a real hottie. Can give example of what you consider "second-tier" cities? To me first-tier citied would be: New York San Francisco D. C. Los Angeles Miami Chicago Boston San Diego Edited April 24 by socurious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+ DrownedBoy Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 19 minutes ago, socurious said: Can give example of what you consider "second-tier" cities? To me first-tier citied would be: New York San Francisco D. C. Los Angeles Miami Chicago Boston San Diego If you're only measuring by escort donations, I guess Chicago is a "second-tier" city. Which is fine because we're always been the "Second City".... socurious, + APPLE1, Luv2play and 1 other 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWnyc Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 11 minutes ago, DrownedBoy said: If you're only measuring by escort donations, I guess Chicago is a "second-tier" city. Which is fine because we're always been the "Second City".... Among those that consider it a city … 😉 mike carey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWnyc Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 On 4/23/2024 at 6:33 PM, DrownedBoy said: I have to add - if you're in a decent market, you shouldn't even have to think about negotiating. According to RM, there are 210 guys within a 50 mile radius who kiss, 63 of whom are currently available. It's not worth the time in that case. Exactly my reaction when someone I’ve politely told it’s not going to work comes back with a revised proposal isn’t “you’re not professional, you don’t know your real value, you’re undermining the market” - it’s “you’re being realistic and trying to close a deal, good for you for trying“ (and also “let’s drop the martyrdom act”) Medin, + Pensant, + APPLE1 and 1 other 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloKyle Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 2 hours ago, DrownedBoy said: If you're only measuring by escort donations, I guess Chicago is a "second-tier" city. Which is fine because we're always been the "Second City".... I would think it's a first tier city. By population it's the 3rd largest in the USA: List of United States cities by population - Wikipedia EN.WIKIPEDIA.ORG Simon Suraci and socurious 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luv2play Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 3 hours ago, socurious said: Can give example of what you consider "second-tier" cities? To me first-tier citied would be: New York San Francisco D. C. Los Angeles Miami Chicago Boston San Diego My impression as an outsider is that there are 5 top tier cities in the US for male providers. NY, LA, SF, DC and Houston. These translate into, finance, entertainment, hi tech, big government and oil resp. Encompassing the areas at the top of the food chain in the USA. That’s my own assessment which I came up with just through observation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+ BenjaminNicholas Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 Chicagoan here: Chicago is and always has been in the top 5 (in my lifetime, at least). It's not considered a second-tier city, even though it's been called 'The Second City' (to NYC). + DrownedBoy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvwnsd Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 53 minutes ago, BenjaminNicholas said: Chicagoan here: Chicago is and always has been in the top 5 (in my lifetime, at least). It's not considered a second-tier city, even though it's been called 'The Second City' (to NYC). This. There are a few "global cities" indices, including the one maintained by The Globalization and World Rankings Research Institute. New York is rated an "Alpha++" city, while Chicago and LA are rated "Alpha" cities. San Francisco is rated an "Alpha -" city and both DC and Houston are rated "Beta +." When you look at the number of Fortune 500 companies headquartered in a metro area, New York ranks #1 (65), followed by Chicago (33), Dallas (22), Houston (21), and Minneapolis and San Francisco (18 each). Interestingly, when one looks at the revenue of the largest Fortune 500 in each metro, Dallas comes in at #1 (ExxonMobil), Minneapolis #2 (UnitedHealth Group), San Francisco #3 (McKesson), New York #4 (Verizon), Chicago #5 (WalgreensBootsAlliance), and Houston #6 (Phillips 66). ExxonMobil and UHG dwarf the rest by a large margin. Back to escorting rates, I don't see how an escort could charge $300/hour and survive on escorting alone in NYC. Perhaps as a sideline, but not as a primary source of income. And if a guy can charge less because he is escorting as a sideline, does he want to be the "cut-rate" escort? I think not. I wonder how massage therapists make it without pushing their hands and arms to the absolute limits. + DrownedBoy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+ Vegas_Millennial Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 7 hours ago, socurious said: Can give example of what you consider "second-tier" cities? To me first-tier citied would be: New York San Francisco D. C. Los Angeles Miami Chicago Boston San Diego Here's a recent thread discussing rates in San Diego, which you consider in the same "tier" as New York. In summary, most responded that typical rates fall between $250-$350 per hour in San Diego; but, don't expect as high $300 for not kissing, rimming, oral, bottoming, etc. socurious 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortCutie7 Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 9 hours ago, DWnyc said: The economics is fascinating for those that can make it work (that doesn’t mean lucrative - it’s just one of the few examples of very free market economics in labor and price clearance) Most female providers see very little of the sums charged Most regular service providing models (eg law, audit) see fees go to owners of the business who (unless sole or limited proprietors) aren’t actually on the frontlines dealing with clients who expect service based on the value of the fees to them When people say “I know my value”, with no disrespect to anyone intended, I roll my eyes a little - unless I’m sure they know what all the aspects of that word they have fully thought through. And I bite my tongue when I want to reply with something like: I know the value of what I’m prepared to hand over to anyone for anything as well, as I know what it took for me to earn it Exactly! I have posted before and gotten flack for it, but it is a fact that it takes me TWENTY hours of work to take home pay (after taxes and 401k etc) for ONE hour of a provider. Yes, it is worth it, and the jobs are not comparable, but that is a HUGE difference. 44 minutes ago, rvwnsd said: Back to escorting rates, I don't see how an escort could charge $300/hour and survive on escorting alone in NYC. Perhaps as a sideline, but not as a primary source of income. And if a guy can charge less because he is escorting as a sideline, does he want to be the "cut-rate" escort? I think not. I wonder how massage therapists make it without pushing their hands and arms to the absolute limits. I think a lot of you are greatly overestimating the income of the average New Yorker. According to the census (https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/newyorkcitynewyork/HSG010222), median per capita income in 2022 in NYC was 48K. An escort charging $300 per hour would only have to work just over 3 hours per week to make that. Again, I’m not saying $300 or even $400 is too much; just putting it into perspective with what most people make. + Pensant, + Vegas_Millennial, Medin and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWnyc Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 1 hour ago, rvwnsd said: I don't see how an escort could charge $300/hour and survive on escorting alone in NYC. Particularly if the have a long list of “here’s what I won’t do” but that amount pre tax is around $500 an hour … 4 hours a week = $2000 … so start doing the math and it doesn’t take long to be better off Than most New Yorkers + Vegas_Millennial and Medin 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socurious Posted April 25 Author Share Posted April 25 (edited) 4 hours ago, Vegas_Millennial said: Here's a recent thread discussing rates in San Diego, which you consider in the same "tier" as New York. In summary, most responded that typical rates fall between $250-$350 per hour in San Diego; but, don't expect as high $300 for not kissing, rimming, oral, bottoming, etc. I think New York is in the upper first-tier range while Chicago in the lower. In my definition it's not really about how big a city is but more about how expensive and competitive. Houston and Phoenix (for example) are bigger than both Boston and San Francisco and to me they are 2nd-tier cities ranking lower than those two. Edited April 25 by socurious + Pensant 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socurious Posted April 25 Author Share Posted April 25 (edited) 8 hours ago, Luv2play said: My impression as an outsider is that there are 5 top tier cities in the US for male providers. NY, LA, SF, DC and Houston. These translate into, finance, entertainment, hi tech, big government and oil resp. Encompassing the areas at the top of the food chain in the USA. That’s my own assessment which I came up with just through observation. Don't forget about Miami. After New York, it is likely the most competitive city for escorts in the USA. Then I guess it's L. A.? I'm surprised Las Vegas isn't listed. Or is Vegas not really good for escorting? Someone on another thread said it was risky for the business. Edited April 25 by socurious Hot4latin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+ nycman Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 (edited) 13 hours ago, socurious said: Or is Vegas not really good for escorting? I’ve said it before, I love Vegas but has nothing to do with the local escort scene. It’s the one city where I suggest people higher travelers. I’ve had a few good experiences with locals, but mostly not. Even the dreaded traveling escort is usually better in this town Edited April 26 by nycman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+ Pensant Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 On 4/25/2024 at 12:33 AM, socurious said: Can give example of what you consider "second-tier" cities? I believe your question has been answered! socurious 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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