establishing a relationship and time wasters

[PileDriver]

so what is the line between being a "time wasterr" and laying the ground for a first meeting? have contacted someone and within 15 minutes been in full penetration. and have also laid the ground work over more than a month though texts. all depends on expectations. on the part of the provider. no?

[+ azdr0710]

sometimes there's an art to proving you're a sincere client......

 

[Guest]

True; it can be tricky to walk this line. I keep messaging to a minimum, and only reach out to a provider if he meets threshold criteria, I’m ready to schedule, and know generally when  I will schedule (could be a few weeks in advance). I might decide not to book depending on the quality of our exchange, but I will not reach out just to fulfill fantasies. I would characterize a positive exchange as rapport building rather than relationship building. I don’t need a relationship to book, just need to get a sense that he’s fun and kind. A professional relationship might grow if he becomes a regular, but not going for that. I also will message after an encounter if appropriate, but again minimal.

[Rudynate]

4 hours ago, PileDriver said:

so what is the line between being a "time wasterr" and laying the ground for a first meeting? have contacted someone and within 15 minutes been in full penetration. and have also laid the ground work over more than a month though texts. all depends on expectations. on the part of the provider. no?

Is it that difficult?   If you cover what, when, where and who in your first communication, you have pretty much established that you aren't a timewaster. 

[soloyo215]

2 hours ago, Km411 said:

...I will not reach out just to fulfill fantasies.

That's what real clients should do. I know that there are some who are first timers, struggling with accepting their sexuality, insanely busy, working erratic schedules, and things alike, but all those things can be communicated. First time I reached out to a provider I mentioned that I am new to all this and I am interested in their service. However, I was clear and decided to go with it. I didn't reach out until I knew that I mean business. A time waster is like a window shopper, only that he's taking the provider's time. My rule is complete clarity about scheduling, availability and the service I am interested in. When that's been discussed, it's not wasting time, even if the provider of I decide not to book after the initial contact.

So far there has been only one provider who I'd say was a time waster to me, due to unclear communication on his part and cancellation at the last minute without wanting to reschedule. I just moved on and didn't bother him again.

[+ The Big Guy]

9 hours ago, PileDriver said:

so what is the line between being a "time wasterr" and laying the ground for a first meeting? have contacted someone and within 15 minutes been in full penetration. and have also laid the ground work over more than a month though texts. all depends on expectations. on the part of the provider. no?

I would love to hear the details on getting to full penetration in 15 minutes!  Sounds like a great experience.  

[Jamie21]

4 hours ago, The Big Guy said:

I would love to hear the details on getting to full penetration in 15 minutes!  Sounds like a great experience.  

So would I…. and to hear if he was dressed and making payment 15 minutes after full penetration. It sounds like the drive through fast food end of the market. 

[PileDriver]

had an assignation planned in midtown during the middle of a weekday. provider had to cancel as i was waiting downstairs so while walking back to the subway i went online and one block away someone was available so I texted him as i walked the block to his hotel. He met me as soon as I entered the lobby and we were in his room a minute later and we had fun and i then  went back to work...seeing him in a few weeks, for the 4th time now. nice guy. professional. fun. dependable. 

[PileDriver]

the best part is the provider who left me hanging and i are mature enough that we have since then continued our relationship and because he canceled i now have another sweet guy to play with...some day  when the planets align i want them both at the same time...if only all assignations and life were so easy and playful, sigh...

Edited December 21, 2023 by PileDriver

[Simon Suraci]

Here is an anecdote about establishing rapports, and a timewaster. It’s a delicate line between the two.

A client reached out recently starting out by saying he didn’t know what he wanted but that he wants to fly me across the country for a session (red flag #1). I asked to chat with him on the phone, but he refused, preferring to text only (red flag #2).

I asked a bunch of questions over text to help him communicate his interests and needs. Fortunately we arrived at some activities he was interested in. I had to tease it out of him. Frustrating, but sometimes it takes a bit of nudging to get the client to open up about what they want. They aren’t always comfortable saying what they want or confident about what they want. I don’t mind that necessarily, it’s just more time and effort on my part. At least he did open up.

To save time, I told him upfront what my fees are and that he would need to pay for my travel costs if he were interested in hiring me to visit him. I gave him a rough estimate saying if he was serious about proceeding that I would research and quote him for the dates he wants. He was all good with that saying he was willing to spend up to $X,XXX. My estimate was slightly under that figure. All good. Point for the client.

We text chatted in the following days about general things outside of hiring like our pets and home life. It takes time but it’s all rapports building and investment with the expectation that the relationship building pays off.

Then he started wanting to discuss his fantasies in a back and forth sexting style exchange (red flag #3). I redirected saying we can discuss his interests and needs to get on the same page, but he would need to save his fantasy time for the session unless he wants to engage me for sexting service. He backed off from the sexting dynamic and was respectful of my time. Another point for the client.

We discussed some dates and that he would like to host me at a hotel and he said he would get back to me with his schedule and we would discuss. Great.

Seeing some of the red flags but being hopeful that he was showing promise by respecting my boundaries, I decided to give him the following requirements to save us both time: 1) a phone call to confirm he is a real person and 2) a $50 deposit before we book travel, to demonstrate he is serious about following through.

He balked at the deposit. Fair enough. Those of you that know me know I don’t charge deposits for local appointments or when I am on the road. I avoid charging them because I know many clients will never hire when a deposit - of any amount - is required. I respect that. I make exceptions to the deposit rule, however when someone wants to fly me across the country, considering the significant amount of risk involved. It’s not as big of a deal when someone no-shows at my home studio location. Annoying and disrespectful, yes. A loss, however small, yes. But when they no show when I fly across the country specifically to meet them, that’s a different story entirely.

For a client I’ve never met before who is giving me some red flags, I felt it was perfectly reasonable to ask for a phone call and charge a very small nominal deposit to test if he is serious. It’s less about the amount and more about him demonstrating that he is serious. He wasn’t. Thank god. That saved me any more wasted time and the prospect of more loss involved with flying to another city only to be stood up.

When you’re reaching out to a provider, whether it be for something nearby and soon, or far away weeks in advance, you want to make sure you cover these points in your approach, the sooner the better:

1) Clearly communicate your needs.

2) Discuss the major logistical constraints like schedule and location, and any travel, if applicable.

3) Establish and agree to the costs (or at least a general range) the client is willing to pay for certain services over a  certain period of time. This should be sooner rather than later.

4) You may have some rapport building and back and forth, which is fine, but at some point you need to agree to a day and time to meet at the location you established. Maybe that’s at your hotel which you haven’t booked yet, but that’s fine as long as you set up the general location like a neighborhood.

Spare the provider your sexting. He will indulge your fantasy in the session.

It’s ok to engage in some relationship building, but invest in it to build up to a better session and to establish trust, not to sap the provider’s time or to meet your loneliness needs outside the session. Keep it to a reasonable amount. Don’t demand lots and lots of time, and all will be good. 

[SouthOfTheBorder]

21 minutes ago, Simon Suraci said:

A client reached out recently starting out by saying he didn’t know what he wanted but that he wants to fly me across the country for a session (red flag #1)

I don't understand "flying someone in" as a first meeting & I'll bet it never actually happens.  I could see it happening after a relationship is established.  
So much time, money & effort involved for an unknown outcome - it can't begin to make sense for either client or provider.

This scenario seems a sure time-waster.

[Simon Suraci]

Just now, SouthOfTheBorder said:

I could see it happening after a relationship is established

I agree. Too much on the line for client and provider for a first meet, but these things can and do happen.

I feel much more comfortable with a regular client. A new one, not so much.

[MikeBiDude]

3 minutes ago, SouthOfTheBorder said:

I don't understand "flying someone in" as a first meeting & I'll bet it never actually happens

It happens. I've done it 4-5 times over the years. Usually someone well known or well reviewed but exceptions even to that. However I'll agree it's better if a relationship via shorter previous meets happen.

[Guest]

40 minutes ago, SouthOfTheBorder said:

I don't understand "flying someone in" as a first meeting & I'll bet it never actually happens.  I could see it happening after a relationship is established.  
So much time, money & effort involved for an unknown outcome - it can't begin to make sense for either client or provider.

I’ve done so several times because there are few providers in my area, and I’m located in an area that’s out of reasonable driving distance but a short flight from several major metro areas. Always an overnight and I host (I’m more comfortable at home and save on hotel). They’ve all worked out very well, but always preceded by the steps that @Simon Suracioutlined above. Sure there’s risk, but I think it makes sense in my circumstances.