Is the American dream dead? Have YOU achieved it?

[marylander1940]

 

Is our national ethos dead to most? For some Americans living in expensive cities the only way to reach homeownership is moving away to another area, at the same time we have regions like Appalachia and huge parts of the Bible belt who never even got a taste of if while others in our inner-city (if they haven't been gentrified) know of some relative who have achieved it. 

 

Is the American dream really dead?

WWW.FT.COM

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Has US economic stagnation destroyed the myth of an ever-better life for its citizens? David Leonhardt argues that it has

 

[SouthOfTheBorder]

the American dream is dead for most Americans - children now tend to advance less than their parents, or worse they end up with a lower standard of living than their parents. 

For those immigrating to the US, the dream is very much alive in the sense they will have a better life.

and - lots of Americans leaving the country for a better life elsewhere.  

[+ Charlie]

It depends on how one defines "The American Dream." If one uses the definition posted above, then I did achieve it, in "The American Way:" I got much more formal education than my parents did--they were both high school drop-outs, while I ended up with three higher education degrees from top schools. As a result, I got better-paying stable jobs. That was what my parents dreamed would happen to me. But America also changed over our lifetimes, because unlike my parents, I didn't live through an economic collapse and a Great Depression which forced them to work at whatever jobs they could get to support their parents, who didn't have Social Security to help them survive through the first years of the Depression. I graduated from high school into a thriving post-war economy, which enabled my parents to afford to send me to college, when tuition, room and board at a good private college cost less than $2000/year. Of course, I did my part by getting good grades, which got me scholarships and work-study jobs that minimized what it cost my parents, and my first graduate degree was covered entirely by a fellowship.

Sociologists would probably have described my parents as respectable lower-middle class. I would probably be considered lower-upper-middle class, based on my education, work history, social connections and financial assets. Their/my dream came true. The question is whether the members of an American family today could rise in the same way by the same means.

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

I see the American Dream alive and well in the younger generation friends around me.  Some are children of immigrants. Some are immigrants themselves.  Some went to private/charter schools for K-12, and all went to public university for a degree in Science or Engineering.  They have stable jobs, bought beautiful 4 bedroom/2-car garage houses in nice neighborhoods, same are around 28-30 years old.  Some couples have their first and second children.  Assuming they don't get divorced, they have succeeded at the American Dream.

I have other friends who didn't study Science or Engineering at University.  They still reached upper middle class, but it took an extra decade until they were 40, and it took years of living in smaller than desired housing and then finally selling their house in California and relocating to a nicer community in Texas.

The key to all of these young successful friends I know are:

1. Finish school without debt.  2. Get married if desired.  3. Have children of desired.  (In THAT order).  I haven't seen successful rise out of poverty and debt if someone did #3 before #2 and #1.

Edited December 2, 2023 by Vegas_Millennial

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

For me personally, I achieved the American Dream at age 25.

I graduated from public university debt-free at age 23 with a degree in Engineering.  (No scholarships or loans; I just worked as I went to school to pay for it).  I landed a steady job at 23.  I bought my house at age 25.

 

On 12/2/2023 at 7:58 AM, marylander1940 said:

we have regions like Appalachia and huge parts of the Bible belt who never even got a taste of

My response to this was deleted.  Apparently it's okay to bash the Bible Belt but not okay to defend it.

Let's just say that I credit my religious upbringing to planting the American Dream in my heart.

Edited December 3, 2023 by Vegas_Millennial
My response to the Bible Belt negative stereotype was deleted by moderators

[marylander1940]

1 hour ago, Vegas_Millennial said:

For me personally, I achieved the American Dream at age 25.

I graduated from public university debt-free at age 23 with a degree in Engineering.  (No scholarships or loans; I just worked as I went to school to pay for it).  I landed a steady job at 23.  I bought my house at age 25.

 

I hope they're proud of you and most of your choices.

Thanks for sharing. Btw most gay men also work their asses of knowing their family might find out and not be there to help them, they're also more like to be successful compared to straight guys. Just a fact! 

 

[+ nycman]

I grew up in a lower middle class family in rural America. 

Through hard work, planning, and perseverance, I was able to leave that place and live beyond my wildest dreams.

So yes, it’s alive and well in me.

In my experience, people expecting it to be handed to them on a silver platter are sorely disappointed. Those that work hard at it, soar.

[marylander1940]

3 minutes ago, nycman said:

I grew up in a lower middle class family in rural America. 

Through hard work, planning, and perseverance, I was able to leave that place and live beyond my wildest dreams.

So yes, it’s alive and well in me.

In my experience, people expecting it to be handed to them on a silver platter are sorely disappointed. Those that work hard at it, soar.

How much do you think being gay motivated you to leave rural America and become a New Yorker by choice? 

[+ nycman]

2 minutes ago, marylander1940 said:

How much do you think being gay motivated you to leave rural America and become a New Yorker by choice? 

100%

I love rural America, but as my high school homeroom teacher said…."you know you have to leave…right?"

Thankfully, I love NYC life even more. Nonetheless, without that fire under my ass I’m not sure I would have ever left. 

[+ Charlie]

BTW, being gay probably helped me achieve the dream, because when I was younger, I met men above my social and financial class whom I probably never would have connected with if I had been straight. I also felt no internal pressure to marry and have children, which gave me more freedom to do things that I couldn't have done if I had a family to support. It also helped that I found a partner from a similar background who had similar experience.

[+ purplekow]

If the American dream is having the ability to establish one's own dream and achieving it, then I have.  Lower middle class upbringing though my father did own his own barber shop so perhaps that made us middle middle class. Still, there was no extra money once the mortgage was paid and the family was fed.  Scholarships, jobs and loans got me through college and one year working got me debt free.  Graduate degree put me back in debt but one year out I was once again debt free.  I bought my first new car when I was 25 and saw my father teary eyed when he bought his first new car at age 65. I can still hear him saying:  "I never thought I would be able to do this."    Though certainly at different economic levels, my father achieved the American dream of doing better than his parents and having his children do better than he did.  I feel as though I have continued that dream.  

Edited December 2, 2023 by purplekow

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

1 hour ago, marylander1940 said:

I hope they're proud of you and most of your choices.

Thanks for sharing. Btw most gay men also work their asses of knowing their family might find out and not be there to help them, they're also more like to be successful compared to straight guys. Just a fact! 

 

Yes, I do agree that the absence of a safety net will encourage most people to make better choices for themselves.  Too often safety nets become hammocks and people are worse off because of lack of motivation.

 

 

 

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

53 minutes ago, pubic_assistance said:

College educations cost a small fortune and their loan debt excessive

More people need to consider state universities and community colleges, as did I.

I find it amusing when the same people that cry foul when a state wants to fund school vouchers or charter schools that compete with public schools, have no problem asking the government for a help attending a private university when there are plenty of low-cost public universities available.

Higher education costs more today  because students today don't want to share dorm rooms or community showers.  They vote to increase student fees for lavish recreation centers in campus.   And they take out loans to pay for it all.

I'll wager a greater chance of success on an 18 year old community college student today than on an 18 year old private university student.  Assuming they both finish their degree, the one who started in community college won't be burdened with any debt upon graduation.

 

 

 

 

[spidir]

Yes, I achieved the American Dream and that dream is alive and well today. What other country offers the opportunity for so many people to accumulate wealth, pursue any whim, and shape their life as they think best?

[marylander1940]

48 minutes ago, Vegas_Millennial said:

Yes, I do agree that the absence of a safety net will encourage most people to make better choices for themselves.  Too often safety nets become hammocks and people are worse off because of lack of motivation.

 

 

 

Great explanation!

In most occasions safety nets don't encourage people to do something...

[BSR]

5 hours ago, marylander1940 said:

Btw most gay men also work their asses of knowing their family might find out and not be there to help them, they're also more like to be successful compared to straight guys. Just a fact!

Can you prove this "fact"?  I doubt it, but feel free to prove me wrong.  I point this out only because you have a habit of presenting your opinions/assumptions as "fact" when they're not.

[marylander1940]

8 hours ago, BSR said:

Can you prove this "fact"?  I doubt it, but feel free to prove me wrong.  I point this out only because you have a habit of presenting your opinions/assumptions as "fact" when they're not.

Whatever I say won't be enough to apparently change your mind.

Funny because I also think you present your opinions/assumptions as facts on here. 

Would you like to share if you have reached the American dream?

Edited December 3, 2023 by Kevin Slater

[Guest]

I take issue with the belief that anyone regardless of where they were born or what class they were born into can achieve success in which upward mobility is possible for everyone. This assumes that if you work hard enough and make sound decisions, you’ll achieve this; in other words, you have the power to make this happen for yourself. This is not true in America today, and it never was.

Many people work very hard and make sound decisions and never realize success or upward mobility. Some have achieved it, only to have it taken away. That’s because it also takes education, aptitude, access, opportunity, luck, and fairness and equity, all of which only is available to a few.

I’ve achieved the American Dream. Yes, I’ve worked hard and made sound choices (mostly). But I personally did nothing to gain access and opportunity, it was handed to me; education was not a choice but an expectation, and access to the Ivy League was never in doubt. I also had a fair playing field—with other middle class White males. All I did was make the best of what was given to me.

Sure, there are many who have lifted themselves up by their bootstraps against all odds. But please consider that there are many who historically have been denied and continue to be denied all that is needed to achieve the American Dream; it simply is not available to everyone.

Maybe it’s time for a new American Dream.

 

 

 

[+ augustus]

Live below your means and save/invest.  

[+ purplekow]

Fulfillment of any dream takes a combination of hard work, imagination and a certain degree of luck and also time.  . Not all American Dreams are achieved via a free pass to the Ivy League.  Some dreams are smaller first steps and need to be realistic for the circumstances into which one is born.  So sure, there are those who are lucky enough to be born into favorable circumstances and the chances for success are higher. There are those who are born into financial. emotional or educational poverty to whom achieving the ultimate dream is less attainable.  When my grandfather left Europe and came to the US with a dream for success, it took 100 years of work by him, his children and his grandchildren to have demonstrably achieved the American Dream.  Still, this Dream has only been achieved to the standard we have set for success.  

 There is no doubt that there are privileged individuals who start with a big lead.  There are also exceptionally talented people who rush ahead.  There are particularly lucky people who find the key to success on an early try.  That does not mean the Dream is only for them.  Success is not going to be achieved by all, rather the opportunity for success is there for all with a small number with a big lead and most others trying to inch close step by step and in my case generation by generation.  

[Guest]

I also am the product of the hard work of immigrant ancestors for over 200 years. America affords opportunities that most societies don’t, and I feel fortunate (and proud) to be part of it. But I think that the American Dream is more myth than reality for most. My point is that work ethic alone is not enough for many (possibly most) Americans to succeed and that it’s not really available to everyone. An American Dream that acknowledges this and strives for change by eliminating artificial barriers to entry, leveling the playing field, and overcoming the scarcity mentality that oppresses so many is something more meaningful that I could rally around. If we don’t, our society will only become more stratified, particularly with the rapid introduction of technology. There are many challenges ahead for the American Dream; everyone deserves a fighting chance.

[Guest]

And with that, I must now turn my attention to another important topic in the forum: “Providers and Precum” 😊 

[marylander1940]

7 hours ago, augustus said:

Live below your means and save/invest.  

We also live in a blessed country no matter who is in charge! 

We benefit from so many first and second generation immigrants with an entrepreneurial mindset! 

[marylander1940]

2 hours ago, Km411 said:

And with that, I must now turn my attention to another important topic in the forum: “Providers and Precum” 😊 

Which to be honest is the reason why most of us are here

 

[Rudynate]

Yes, I have achieved it. I grew up in a lower middle-/working class home and I had 8 siblings.  I was very precocious and did well enough in school without much effort and started college on a Regents College Scholarship from the State of New York, even though I loathed school from the first day of kindergarten until the day I graduated from high school.  I dropped out of college after a semester and joined the Army. After the Army, I settled in Colorado and attended the University of Colorado on my GI educational benefits, while working during the day.  I couldn't decide what I wanted to do and I was pretty aimless for a decade after college.  I moved to San Francisco and everything changed - things just took off.  I went to graduate school and became a research librarian in the biotech industry.  I studied to take the Registration exam in the Patent Office and became a Registered Patent Agent.  The patent attorneys I worked with kept telling me, "You really ought to go to law school," so I did and ended up a Silicon Valley patent attorney.  I'm 71 - past retirement age, but I don't want to stop, it's too much fun.  My sister is the same way.  She is a CRNA  (certified registered nurse anesthetist) and doesn't want to stop.  She retired a couple years ago, and only lasted a few months before she started to miss the intellectual stimulation from her work and came out of retirement.