Preventing Deposit Scams

[Slotman55]

Cash transfer services have made it much easier to send someone cash - and has increase scams. A lot of this was learned "the hard way" but I have come up with various policies toward escort deposits that may prevent someone out there from losing money.
1) There is no reason for a deposit for same-day or even next day appointments - especially for an escort who is local.
2) New escorts with no reviews (or no recent reviews or photos) should not receive deposits unless there is a face-to-face video call beforehand.
3) No deposit should be sent unless the escort sends his full legal name.
4) Pre-appointment deposits should not exceed 20% or $500 - whatever is less. When the deposit is sent, it should include a note that no additional deposit is available.
5)  If you are furnishing transportation, that is considered part of the deposit.
6) "Emergency" requests for pre-appointment money should be denied. Doesn't the escort have other resources that a client they have never met or only met once.
7) Negotiations for deposits should be done on the Escort site (Rentmen or whatever) if at all possible. If the client suspects a scam, the escort should be reported to the site - as well as to the cash transfer service. 

Any additional thoughts on this?
 

[Wanderoz]

1 rule:  Just don't do it.

[maninsoma]

5 hours ago, Wanderoz said:

1 rule:  Just don't do it.

That's my simple rule.  I just don't think it makes sense for the client unless you are talking about an extended appointment or having someone travel a significant distance to you.  If having that policy means that some guys don't want my business, so be it.

[Nodalguy]

On 8/30/2023 at 8:50 AM, Wanderoz said:

1 rule:  Just don't do it.

Yep. Never again. 

[Guest]

As I've advised previously, the only deposit I've ever made is to cover the costs of the escort getting to me. In those cases, I do need the copy of the man's driver's license or passport, and I will purchase whatever travel needs in that person's name. 

[Jarrod_Uncut]

Well let’s not forget, sometimes clients flake on their own deposits. And in this case, I just did a very nominal deposit. Which I don’t normally do but I was trying to make it easy for the person. 

 

So, throw that no same day appointment idea for deposits out the 🪟 I especially do it for same day appointments, because I have to be ready at short notice quicker than anticipated. 
 

[+ specific25]

Don't do it, unless you're paying for uber, airfare, etc.  I've gotten these results whenever I do deposits: the provider has a conflict with his schedule, requests more $ for discounts, and most common, no response after you send the deposit.

[harlow]

[JamesB]

On 8/30/2023 at 8:50 AM, Wanderoz said:

1 rule:  Just don't do it.

I do love this simple rule.

[pubic_assistance]

On 8/30/2023 at 9:27 AM, Slotman55 said:

I have come up with various policies toward escort deposits that may prevent someone out there from losing money.

[Trick]

Anyone looking for a potential business venture?  Try gay escrow services.

[Figueroa7778]

Why would you leave an audit trail behind, an  electronic evidence that can easily be scrutinized for an illegal transaction? 

[Trick]

33 minutes ago, Figueroa7778 said:

Why would you leave an audit trail behind, an  electronic evidence that can easily be scrutinized for an illegal transaction? 

This is why I only do cash, no cash transfer app, rideshares, etc.

[AngusStevensxxx]

On 8/30/2023 at 9:27 AM, Slotman55 said:

Cash transfer services have made it much easier to send someone cash - and has increase scams. A lot of this was learned "the hard way" but I have come up with various policies toward escort deposits that may prevent someone out there from losing money.
1) There is no reason for a deposit for same-day or even next day appointments - especially for an escort who is local.
2) New escorts with no reviews (or no recent reviews or photos) should not receive deposits unless there is a face-to-face video call beforehand.
3) No deposit should be sent unless the escort sends his full legal name.
4) Pre-appointment deposits should not exceed 20% or $500 - whatever is less. When the deposit is sent, it should include a note that no additional deposit is available.
5)  If you are furnishing transportation, that is considered part of the deposit.
6) "Emergency" requests for pre-appointment money should be denied. Doesn't the escort have other resources that a client they have never met or only met once.
7) Negotiations for deposits should be done on the Escort site (Rentmen or whatever) if at all possible. If the client suspects a scam, the escort should be reported to the site - as well as to the cash transfer service. 

Any additional thoughts on this?
 

Provider here: All of these things are just common sense. 

These are good standard rules to live by! - except rule #3 which is unreasonable in my view. (There would be no way to verify the ID they show you is genuine anyway, but - to each their own.) My discretion is something I value really highly and I give my clients the exact same respect in return. 

 

Let me explain why I have deposit requirements:

The amount of last minute cancelations I have had, the amount of times I have been booked for fake appointments and gone to hotels only to have the client magically stop replying when I am only one block away, have made it impossible for me to work without a deposit from clients I have not met. This happened once to me 7 times in a row btw: Either fake booking or last minute cancel.

It has meant I have had no choice but to either quit or implement a deposit policy, but I try to make it as easy, safe and discreet as possible. 

My policy is - if you want an advance booking: 

• You can send deposit by cash app (anonymous + private) or Venmo (anonymous + private) 
• I only require a small deposit - can be as little as $20-$50. whatever amount you are comfortable with, just send something to show me you are legit and serious. 
• I have over 50 positive reviews, you can contact the reviewers, you can see my pics, my address, etc. If despite all that that you are STILL uncomfortable with deposits, that is totally OK, I get it and totally understand peoples hesitation - some clients are in the closet or married, maybe they have a job that could be jeopardized and requires higher level of discretion, and after all you do read the horror stories here from people who send deposits of $1000s to providers with wonderful photos and no reviews,  - there could be a multitude of reasons why they do not feel comfortable with deposits - you can still just message me on the day of the appointment- and if I am still available, we can get together and we WILL have a fun time. The clients that are not comfortable with doing Venmo/cashapp - they more often than not still message me on the day, so I have found this system works well for these clients too. If they don't message, it's not a problem as I haven't cleared my calendar or refused other potential bookings. 

 

If you send me a deposit - I do then refuse to accept any other bookings in that time slot.

If you don't send a deposit and I keep the spot for you and you then cancel last minute - I am left in the red and its just not a viable way to conduct business.

Since I implemented this system it has weeded out almost all of my cancelations, and actually increased my bookings. 

 

 

Just to note- I get that people are worried about scams - as they should be - but you may not be aware that:

 Providers get contacted by scammers EVERY. SINGLE. DAY.

We get contacted by pranksters EVERY. SINGLE. DAY.

We get contacted by time wasters who are literally jerking off while metaphorically jerking us around EVERY. SINGLE. DAY!

Just today I have been contacted three by fake accounts saying "I want to send you cheques just give me your bank details!" (of course they don't open with that, but they waste our time chatting first, usually pretending to want a multi hour booking). When scammers contact us pretending to be clients - we have no choice but to reply as initially, we can not tell the difference between a genuine enquiry and a false lead.  A client who says that they are willing to spend a few hundred dollars on a provider who has many reviews  - but won't spend $20 on a deposit to lock it down - unfortunately lacks credibility.

I have proven to you I am real, authentic and genuine, a small Venmo or Uber allows you to do the same! 

We really put ourselves out there and asking for a minimal deposit is not a stretch too far.  

 

To surmise- The OP gives really good advice.  Take it!  The post is not about 'are deposit good or not', but how to do harm reduction and I think the points raised are wise and are super sensible - but of course there will be a chorus of anonymous profiles shouting "no deposits! scammers!"  I would bet the farm a good deal of them like to be able to cancel last minute! 

 

Have fun out there guys!  Be Kind! 

[josh282282]

1 hour ago, AngusStevensxxx said:

Provider here

Hi

I'm a provider too, albeit slightly different.  I'm a board certified physician practicing medicine here in the US.

1 hour ago, AngusStevensxxx said:

The amount of last minute cancelations I have had,

Yes, I get those, too. Even from established patients of mine. I discharge any patients who do this repetitively. I do not demand deposits to make an appointment.  

FYI: ALL professionals get no-shows.  It's perplexing why you think your profession should be somehow exempt from this.

All good business men (including physicians) must come up with strategies to manage business scheduling losses.  

 

 

FULL DISCLOSURE: I will never give a deposit.  I've been hiring for awhile & I consider myself quite experienced now, and I have never been asked for a deposit & never will provide one.

 

TO ALL MY GAY BROTHERS OUT THERE WHO HIRE:

Do not listen to the above escort.

Do not EVER pay a deposit. You WILL very possibly regret it.  You will help other Gay men regret it.

 

And if you DO pay a deposit:

You will encourage MORE SCAMMERS to infiltrate the gay-escort business who will RIP  us OFF!  But by keeping a No-Deposit-Culture we minimize this cancer.

If you DO pay a deposit: 

You will encourage more psychopaths to infiltrate the gay-escort business who will then PREY ON US (cuz they have YOUR personal info) BY extorting those who provide this info.

 

To My Gay Brothers Who Cancel Last Minute or No-Show:

What the fuck is wrong with you?!?

Escorts are beautiful,  wonderful,  fun and VERY worthy of all the respect & love we can GIVE THEM.  No-showing harms EVERYONE.  

 

MY SUGGESTION: 

If we hear of any gay poster to these boards we absolutely should BAN HIM as he helps to create the very toxicity that drives the above mentioned escort to his inappropriate deposit-demanding behavior. 

Love & hugs to all,

Josh 

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

Jesus christ, the sturm und drang on this thread.

Pay a deposit, don't pay a deposit...  It's your personal call.  You do you.  Whatever makes you comfortable.

These posts- pro or con- aren't going to change the entire industry.  Yet we keep on mastrubating.

 

[AngusStevensxxx]

53 minutes ago, josh282282 said:

Hi

I'm a provider too, albeit slightly different.  I'm a board certified physician practicing medicine here in the US.

Yes, I get those, too. Even from established patients of mine. I discharge any patients who do this repetitively. I do not demand deposits to make an appointment.  

FYI: ALL professionals get no-shows.  It's perplexing why you think your profession should be somehow exempt from this.

All good business men (including physicians) must come up with strategies to manage business scheduling losses.  

What a disappointing reply from a faceless, anonymous poster. I choose to believe your heart is in the right place and  I loathe to get into a tit-for-tat but I do have to point out some inaccuracies in your post. 

 Do you ever get called out to strangers addresses to attend inside someones house or apartment all on your own? Do you ever have to give out your address to patients? Do you ever get asked to go inside hotel lobbies wearing bow ties and wait for the client to greet you? Do you take bookings from anonymous style profiles on rentmen?  Congratulations on your alleged, very prestigious profession - But you are not put in vulnerable position that we are. We are certainly not the same providers, but IF you are a doctor, the only commonality is that we both help people.  

1 hour ago, josh282282 said:

FYI: ALL professionals get no-shows.  It's perplexing why you think your profession should be somehow exempt from this.

All good business men (including physicians) must come up with strategies to manage business scheduling losses.  

 

• I pay a deposit to make advance booking with my I go to my hairdresser (which I go to monthly) 
• I pay deposits when I book hotels
• I pay deposits to advance bookings at restaurants.
• Here in NYC I even paid a deposit to book seats at a cocktail bar just this month!    ('Overstory'  if anyone gets the chance to go there - the drinks are INCREDIBLE) 
• I am having tattoo removal (silly decisions when I was a teenager) and guess what ? The clinic takes my cc details and charges me a no-show fee when I book the advance appointment! 

You are correct that all professions have no-shows, but the scale at which we are inundated with fake calls and no shows is astounding.  Including from some people who post here on these forums. 

 

 

I think you may have missed the part where I mention I offer options for clients who -for whatever reason - are uncomfortable with deposits: message me on the day and if I am available we can make an appointment. But I will not hold a spot for someone who I have never met, from a google voice phone number, or random RM account - who professes to be willing to spend hundreds of dollars but will not commit to send $20 to lock it down.  Just like your 'I'm a doctor so my posts has weight' lacks credibility - so does these types of booking requests.

1 hour ago, josh282282 said:

Do not listen to the above escort.

Check out my rentmen profile - check out my twitter. I put my name behind my words, which in my view gives it some weight.  Telling people to "Do not listen to the above escort." as if I am going to scam them is pretty rude and I take great offense to it.  I am a geniune, kind and trustworthy person - I have proven myself, and have the reviews to back it up. 

1 hour ago, josh282282 said:

MY SUGGESTION: 

If we hear of any gay poster to these boards we absolutely should BAN HIM as he helps to create the very toxicity that drives the above mentioned escort to his inappropriate deposit-demanding behavior. 

How does this protect me from fake bookings, prank bookings and no-shows again? (rhetorical question because the answer is:  It doesn't.)

But thank you for that very unhelpful advice!  Once again -somebody who professes to be willing to spend hundreds of dollars but will not commit to send $20 to lock it down lacks credibility. 

 

Finally - I am glad you profess to love & respect us. This post you just made didn't feel really respectful and loving. It actually made me feel the very opposite. 

[AngusStevensxxx]

41 minutes ago, BenjaminNicholas said:

Jesus christ, the sturm und drang on this thread.

Pay a deposit, don't pay a deposit...  It's your personal call.  You do you.  Whatever makes you comfortable.

These posts- pro or con- aren't going to change the entire industry.  Yet we keep on mastrubating.

 

I think the OP posed a more unique question - 'how can we make it safer?', rather than 'should we or shouldn't we?'.  

The question requires a bit more nuanced discussion that has gone over many repliers. 

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

Just now, AngusStevensxxx said:

The question requires a bit more nuanced discussion that has gone over many repliers. 

Nuanced is not this board's wheelhouse.

I'd agree about the op's query, but I seriously don't see that particular conversation happening on this thread.

People here can be black.  People here can be white.  They have great difficulty in the gray area.

[AngusStevensxxx]

1 hour ago, josh282282 said:

If you DO pay a deposit: 

You will encourage more psychopaths to infiltrate the gay-escort business who will then PREY ON US (cuz they have YOUR personal info) BY extorting those who provide this info.

Another inaccuracies/scaremongering- 

cashapp is anonymous and you can use any name you like for it - the provider who receives payment will know your cashapp profile name ONLY  which can be literally anything you want - including something like crazy like  "josh282282".  As confident as you are posting under that handle - you can feel just as confident sending money through cashapp under the same handle. No one can track down your information like that and extort you. 

 

It is a very safe way to send small amounts of money. 

 

Edited February 27 by AngusStevensxxx

[viewing ownly]

Nice to see providers who require deposits to put in their two cents, and I'd be VERY curious what kind of difference requiring one has done to their business levels compared to prior to reaching that decision.

The bottom line for most who seek company is that we'll more than likely find someone who floats our boat who doesn't require a deposit who potentially might not be who we were initially looking for, but could be as enjoyable.

To those providers who have reached the point of being past their wits' end of flakes, time-wasters, and no-shows, I completely get it. I am disgusted and ashamed of many (not most all, just way too many) fellow seekers of fun who sadly have reached such a low-life level of decency to ruin it for the good, honest, noble & timely men like myself who appreciate the company. 

I paid a deposit once and only once. The provider flaked, as I feared he would. Never again. 

[Jarrod_Uncut]

44 minutes ago, viewing ownly said:

I paid a deposit once and only once. The provider flaked, as I feared he would. Never again. 

Again, you’re talking about a one time thing. That would be like an escort saying: “I got a hotel to host a client ONCE and he didn’t show, I never hosted again”. Let’s talk about how many times I’ve had clients who didn’t show after I paid for accommodations and travel since I started in 2008, and how many didn’t show, faked in their communications etc etc etc. Everything from the blatant no shows, to the ghosts, to the ones who I thought would show but didn’t:

Just do a low number of 4x a week, multiplied by 16 years. That’s an estimate of 3,328 times I’ve been scammed. Double it for ALL inquiries, and the number is 6,656. Times that by an average of $250 per flaked session: that’s $1,664,000 dollars LOST. Divided by 16 🟰 $104,000 annually. Never recovered. And you’re bitching about your one time? Bitch…goodbye ✌️😆 

As has been repeated over and over: we as escorts deal with that ALL THE TIME. People will often say, “that’s part of doing business” and yes it is. But it’s also part of you hiring. Hell, I’ve given many examples over the years of clients getting scammed just paying cash.

I will say this plainly: CLIENTS ARE STUPID IF THEY THINK THEY WONT GET SCAMMED BY PAYING CASH. Why? I’ve seen more than once clients get ripped off paying cash. I won’t say the details, but it’s very easy. If I was low integrity, I’d be doing it myself and making more money than I am now. 
 

The fact you’re paying for sex alone: is a risk to get scammed. Someone can take your money, and then knock you over the head with a frying pan 🍳 Or have someone else in a closet do it. Or just not fuck you, at best. Not exactly Jeffrey Dahmer, but safety as A WHOLE is not based on upfront money. that’s an example of why deposit has nothing to do with it. You are equating deposit to bad experience when in reality, it has nothing to do with that. You can go on a free site and a dude will do the same thing. I’m pretty sure more people get killed/robbed meeting people on Grindr, than RentMen. RentMen requires members to sign up with a credit card OR drivers license to get photos verified. Grindr does not.

I collect deposits because: I can’t afford to gamble money anymore. I also travel across states, pay for hotels etc. I’m not just a guy hanging out in an apartment or seeing clients within a 5 mile radius. Many of my bookings are 3-4 hours minimum away. On the occasion I have local clients, it’s always last minute. For example: I had a client contact me the day after valentines when I was spending time with a new boyfriend. If he didn’t already send the deposit without me asking, I wouldn’t have taken him serious. But because he did: I cancelled movie night with him, and took care of responsibility. I’m not going to invest that level of sacrifice to someone who’s half-assed in their confirms.

And to the guy who said he’s a doctor or whatever: medical care cannot be compared to sex work. I understand that’s also an industry where no shows happen: but you are running a standing practice office. You’re not getting hotels AND treating patients. You’re not traveling from Los Angeles to Chicago AND treating patients. If you were, you’d be asking for something right? 
 

And here’s another example: regular client of mine from Kansas City. Pays well ($400-$500 every booking), but he still cancelled on me and refuses to reply to me asking for a cancellation fee, even though I let him slide without a deposit last time. Fortunately, I didn’t bother making the drive until the next morning…but that also affected my trip to Buffalo, New York. Both him and a few others ghosted me the week I was trying to make a visit up to the area. I’m appalled (I’m in blue bubble, regular client who’s seen me in a different city in gray)

 

Edited February 27 by Jarrod_Uncut

[viewing ownly]

13 minutes ago, Jarrod_Uncut said:

Again, you’re talking about a one time thing. That would be like an escort saying: “I got a hotel to host a client ONCE and he didn’t show, I never hosted again”. Let’s talk about how many times I’ve had clients who didn’t show after I paid for accommodations and travel since I started in 2008, and how many didn’t show, faked in their communications etc etc etc. Everything from the blatant no shows, to the ghosts, to the ones who I thought would show but didn’t:

Just do a low number of 4x a week, multiplied by 16 year. That’s an estimate of 3,328 times I’ve been scammed. And you’re bitching about one time? Bitch… 😆 

As has been repeated over and over: we as escorts deal with that ALL THE TIME. People will often say, “that’s part of doing business” and yes it is. But it’s also part of you hiring. Hell, I’ve given many examples over the years of clients getting scammed just paying cash.

I will say this plainly: CLIENTS ARE STUPID IF THEY THINK THEY WONT GET SCAMMED BY PAYING CASH. Why? I’ve seen more than once clients get ripped off paying cash. I won’t say the details, but it’s very easy. If I was low integrity, I’d be doing it myself and making more money than I am now. 
 

The fact you’re paying for sex alone: is a risk to get scammed. Someone can take your money, and then knock you over the head with a frying pan 🍳 Or have someone else in a closet do it. Or just not fuck you, at best. Not exactly Jeffrey Dahmer, but safety as A WHOLE is not based on upfront money. that’s an example of why deposit has nothing to do with it. You are equating deposit to bad experience when in reality, it has nothing to do with that. You can go on a free site and a dude will do the same thing. I’m pretty sure more people get killed/robbed meeting people on Grindr, than RentMen. RentMen requires members to sign up with a credit card OR drivers license to get photos verified. Grindr does not.

I collect deposits because: I can’t afford to gamble money anymore. I also travel across states, pay for hotels etc. I’m not just a guy hanging out in an apartment or seeing clients within a 5 mile radius. Many of my bookings are 3-4 hours minimum away. On the occasion I have local clients, it’s always last minute. For example: I had a client contact me the day after valentines when I was spending time with a new boyfriend. If he didn’t already send the deposit without me asking, I wouldn’t have taken him serious. But because he did: I cancelled movie night with him, and took care of responsibility. I’m not going to invest that level of sacrifice to someone who’s half-assed in their confirms.

And to the guy who said he’s a doctor or whatever: medical care cannot be compared to sex work. I understand that’s also an industry where no shows happen: but you are running a standing practice office. You’re not getting hotels AND treating patients. You’re not traveling from Los Angeles to Chicago AND treating patients. If you were, you’d be asking for something right? 
 

And here’s another example: regular client of mine from Kansas City. Pays well ($400-$500 every booking), but he still cancelled on me and refuses to reply to me asking for a cancellation fee, even though I let him slide without a deposit last time. Fortunately, I didn’t bother making the drive until the next morning…but that also affected my trip to Buffalo, New York. Both him and a few others ghosted me the week I was trying to make a visit up to the area. I’m appalled (I’m in blue bubble, regular client who’s seen me in a different city in gray)

 

The analogy at least in my case just isn't adding up to compare the awful volume of non-commitments you've had to deal with. I've been seeing men for nearly a decade, and in every one of those circumstances (when the meet-up happened, and sure, providers can be flakes, too), I donate upon arrival, and EVERY time it's someone new, right away to prove being legit. This is countless encounters, with zero of those being ahead of time deposits. I had a total of five occasions, which averages out to about one in less than two years, of having the meet-up not transpire on their end when I've gone to their location.

So when I've been hesitant to pull the trigger (and from this subject on this forum, a major volume of men warn to not ever do so), and go ahead and leave a deposit because I REALLY wanted to see this person, it stinks for you & everyone else who has that requirement for your own protection that this turkey took my money for the sucker he thought I was. Again, I'd never done that before, and never had a problem when a meet-up transpired. Nobody wants to be victimized. We understand your reasoning for doing what you do, but understand our reasoning for not wanting to do it.

[Jarrod_Uncut]

18 minutes ago, viewing ownly said:

The analogy at least in my case just isn't adding up to compare the awful volume of non-commitments you've had to deal with. I've been seeing men for nearly a decade, and in every one of those circumstances (when the meet-up happened, and sure, providers can be flakes, too), I donate upon arrival, and EVERY time it's someone new, right away to prove being legit. This is countless encounters, with zero of those being ahead of time deposits. I had a total of five occasions, which averages out to about one in less than two years, of having the meet-up not transpire on their end when I've gone to their location.

So when I've been hesitant to pull the trigger (and from this subject on this forum, a major volume of men warn to not ever do so), and go ahead and leave a deposit because I REALLY wanted to see this person, it stinks for you & everyone else who has that requirement for your own protection that this turkey took my money for the sucker he thought I was. Again, I'd never done that before, and never had a problem when a meet-up transpired. Nobody wants to be victimized. We understand your reasoning for doing what you do, but understand our reasoning for not wanting to do it.

And that’s great, I’m glad you understand the magnitude of it all.

As I’ve said elsewhere before; I and probably even @AngusStevensxxx have done without deposits for a long time. 
 

Yes: I used to never take deposits. I started in 2008 with a laptop and gay.com. I had a basic flip phone with no pay apps.

I get it. I understand some clients like to do “what they’ve been doing for the past 30 years”. But that doesn’t mean shit in the big scheme of things. Times are different. People change. These days, hooking up and ghosting has become ACCEPTABLE. Even clients who pay, I know are on hookup apps. I met with a client the other night, and I could hear his phone making the Grindr ding. I didn’t say anything, but it goes to show: he probably ghosted someone or someone ghosted him, or he’s just browsing killing time. Who knows. I just know I got my deposit and went over to see him. 
 

These days, and specifically in the markets I work (Midwest, long distance drives, flaky clientele): I require a deposit. Now: if I was in say a fun place like Palm Springs or South Beach Miami and just had a room or apartment; I probably wouldn’t take a deposit. I’d just be trying to get guys to come as they come.

In fact, when I’m resorting to seeking Grindr clients; I won’t take a deposit at all. But that’s because I know they are close range, and I’m putting little investment. Plus I know many of them aren’t trying to pay anyway…so I try to get them in as easiest as possible. But they are always same day, spur of hour or miss the chance. It’s a whole different playing field that I don’t generally prefer.

Edited February 27 by Jarrod_Uncut

[Cooper]

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