$400 is TOO MUCH

[mike carey]

1 hour ago, Simon Suraci said:

@RadioRob Can we move this topic to the questions about hiring section?

Fair question, Simon. I'd say it's a discussion about the merits of a $400 rate and not one about issues about hiring, so better placed here in the Lounge. The consensus of mods may see it moved.

[Simon Suraci]

Stop complaining. Hire the lower cost providers according to your budget, or suck it up and hire the higher cost providers (if you really want them), or don’t hire at all. It’s that simple.

It’s not the providers’ problem if you can’t pay or don’t want to pay what the markets support.

Save more, make more, or hire less often. Simple as that.

We could boycott gas because we think it’s too expensive. That won’t make the cost go down because global demand remains stable. We all have direct and indirect transportation needs which contribute to that stable demand. Same with hiring!

[+ tassojunior]

12 hours ago, coriolis888 said:

Craigslist and rentboy closures were a scam by misguided church ladies

Kamala's a church lady? 

She's the one who put the gay men running BackPage in prison in a vendetta against buying sex. 

[Simon Suraci]

36 minutes ago, mike carey said:

Fair question, Simon. I'd say it's a discussion about the merits of a $400 rate and not one about issues about hiring, so better placed here in the Lounge. The consensus of mods may see it moved.

It just seems to me like we have some version of this discussion in the hiring section all the time. I’m fine with it here, but it’s so closely related to the other section’s topics.

[coriolis888]

5 minutes ago, tassojunior said:

Kamala's a church lady? 

She's the one who put the gay men running BackPage in prison in a vendetta against buying sex. 

I should have written, "church-lady TYPES"

Not correct about Harris instrumental about locking up owners of BackPage.

Back to the subject of escort fees being unreasonable

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

49 minutes ago, Simon Suraci said:

Stop complaining.

I'd usually agree, but seeing as this board is now the de facto place for clients to come and chew the fat, I think that letting people complain is probably the best course of action.  It's just human nature.

While it won't actually do or change anything in the industry, posting this is, symbolically, a way to clear someone's own personal blockages...  At least for a little while.

People just want to be heard.  Even if it's in an echo chamber.

 

Edited May 23, 2023 by BenjaminNicholas

[+ tassojunior]

Usually my experience is new escorts' concept of supply and demand is that when you're not getting enough demand, raise the prices to compensate. But this time it is because of the pandemic shortage of escorts and clients' savings during lockdown.  

There really is a shortage of new young guys coming in the trade. I do my part advising as many good looking guys as I can that they should take the opportunity. 😊

[Simon Suraci]

1 hour ago, BenjaminNicholas said:

People just want to be heard.  Even if it's in an echo chamber.

Ok fine, I won’t take it so seriously then 😜.

We’ve all heard plenty from Jarrod about his frustration with clients, with no resolution. Let clients have a turn!

Scream away…into the void…along with many fellow frustrated commiserators.

And when you’re done, hire! 🤠 

[socurious]

16 hours ago, Pensant said:

I don’t think I’ve had orange juice in 25 years. It’s one of those things, like pasta, that I’ve lost a taste for. But you make a good point.

Right.

[coriolis888]

20 hours ago, Jamie21 said:

Reminder: sex workers price their services according to demand and supply.

Want lots of clients? Price low. Want no clients, price high. 

Edited above for reality

[+ jessmapex]

One argument I see for $400 pricing is rising demand combined with lack of fresh arrivals. With loneliness at epidemic levels, raised expectations about looks and body (due to excessive consumption of online porn, touched up Instagram filtered pix of youthful men who spend hours in a gym and peddle fitness advise and protein powders and drinks) that can not be met by avg real-life people,  and reduced stigma around paid sex, I am sure there is more demand for escorts than before. Also, lately I don't see a whole lot of eastern European visitors advertising ( I think the pandemic changed that traffic). Brazilians show up, but in fewer numbers. Thus, the supply chain has disrupted and OnlyFans and Chaturbate, in addition to FOSTA AND SESTA has minimized the local crop. Hence prices could be up.  I guess, my only choice is to keep it in the pants as long as I can.

Edited May 24, 2023 by jessmapex
Typo

[sjmuktop]

12 hours ago, Simon Suraci said:

We’ve all heard plenty from Jarrod about his frustration with clients, with no resolution. Let clients have a turn!

 

That guy is definitely in the wrong job - he has nothing good to say about what he does at all, he’s constantly negative and on a downer about his escorting. Surely, he must be able to do something else if he hates it that much!

[+ Coolwave35]

2 hours ago, sjmuktop said:

That guy is definitely in the wrong job - he has nothing good to say about what he does at all, he’s constantly negative and on a downer about his escorting. Surely, he must be able to do something else if he hates it that much!

@Jarrod_Uncut your fan club speaketh. 

[menaughty]

In my humble opinion $400 is too much. Heck even $300 is too much tbh. $250 should be the cap. I haven't hired in the US for almost 2 years now. I take trips to Barcelona or Brazil  etc. (I understand that the cost is more in total) but I get more bang for my buck.

I am no stingy person. But the reason I do not agree with these prices is because we talking about RM here. I can only speak from my experience, majority are not outclass, excellent providers. We are talking 400/HOUR here. You can only do the deed and leave. There is no "experience" so to speak. 

Now I understand someone who is pornstar material or is one can probably charge that but not just anybody.

I really like someone here mentioned that high cost does not equate with high equality in this industry. This is so true!! 

It is slowly become rare to find a provider that is excellent quality, some want money upfront, cut the time short, do not follow what agreed upon etc. etc.

[KeepItReal]

1 hour ago, menaughty said:

In my humble opinion $400 is too much. Heck even $300 is too much tbh. $250 should be the cap. I haven't hired in the US for almost 2 years now. I take trips to Barcelona or Brazil  etc. (I understand that the cost is more in total) but I get more bang for my buck.

I am no stingy person. But the reason I do not agree with these prices is because we talking about RM here. I can only speak from my experience, majority are not outclass, excellent providers. We are talking 400/HOUR here. You can only do the deed and leave. There is no "experience" so to speak. 

Now I understand someone who is pornstar material or is one can probably charge that but not just anybody.

I really like someone here mentioned that high cost does not equate with high equality in this industry. This is so true!! 

It is slowly become rare to find a provider that is excellent quality, some want money upfront, cut the time short, do not follow what agreed upon etc. etc.

In the eternal words of that great philosopher, Austin Powers: Yay Capitalism! 

In my experience - a great experience can be had and is worth paying for. 

Edited May 24, 2023 by KeepItReal

[Simon Suraci]

4 hours ago, menaughty said:

$250 should be the cap.

In the United States, this is the minimum. If you’re hiring for less, good for you, but it’s not really sustainable for most, unless the guy works more than one job, perhaps in another field, or does OF or porn or dances or whatever. Let’s go, for the sake of argument, with the assumption your working guy does this full time exclusively.

If a working guy has, on average, one client a day for 5 days a week, every single week of the year, that’s only $65k/yr!!! In what universe would I quit a professional entry level job to do that? In many areas of the country outside of middle America even 65k is not enough anymore to buy a house and/or live well.

Hundreds of dollars per visit may be a lot to some clients, but you should consider the implications: you’re asking the provider to not work in other professions so he can be available to you at all hours of the day and night, on short notice, weekends, overnights, single hours, travel to you, spend hours responding promptly to countless inquiries, market himself, etc etc etc. He may go to the gym at 2pm, but that’s no matter. Maintaining his image is also an important part of the job. It’s work too. This a full time job, and you’re demanding he work it for the equivalent of $65k/yr. That’s livable in some areas, but obviously not at all compelling compared to many other “normal” middle class jobs.

Yes, your man can have multiple clients a day, but let’s say even double (which is not realistic every single working day of the year btw), that’s still $130k. A great living, but still not compelling when you have skills and education in other fields and can make close to that amount in those fields, and gain a lot more security and respect over the long term.

Let’s not forget that there is a time limit to how long most providers can demand the rates they do. You’re also demanding in your $250/hr max that a man put his potential other careers on hold and not advance in those fields for the sake of working for clients like you right now. There’s an opportunity cost to consider there. Not having skills and experience in other fields gives you less opportunity to earn a good living later in life. A guy in his 20s can demand a lot more because of his looks than a working man in his 50s, even if the older guy is an excellent provider. However the 20 something is taking a premium now in exchange for less opportunity later. In theory he can save, invest and make smart decisions to help him later on. I know some blow it all, but a smart one can leverage his short term premium earnings for success over the long term. And yes I acknowledge there’s always a market for each type, including older, it’s just who is able to consistently demand a certain rate based on mass appeal and still make a decent living over the course of their life.

Taxes are another discussion. I pay taxes. Others may not pay on all their income, but even still, we’re not talking gobs more money vs if they did pay taxes on 100% of their income. You have to pay something, otherwise the IRS is suspicious and comes after you. Sidebar that topic, already discussed elsewhere. Just want to acknowledge taxes are a consideration, although not a big enough factor to consider when discussing the bigger question of minimum/maximum rates.

Then there’s the matter of traveling providers. We’ve discussed it as nauseum elsewhere, but I want to acknowledge that traveling around to different cities has significant costs. That cuts into the bottom line. Whatever he might be saving on reporting a fraction of his full income he’s certainly spending on travel costs, and then some. Not to mention the cost of multiple online ads and other expenses.

Now, for the sake of argument, let’s assume your working man has other income streams. Whether that be OF, porn, dancing, massage, other professional career, etc. He makes a decent living between his hustle and his other revenue streams, so he’s less desperate to get clients at any lowball price. In theory he doesn’t need to charge a high rate because his other income streams make up the difference. Maybe $250 is just fine for him in that case. However, the opposite is actually true. It makes less sense for him to do a lot for little gain, because he doesn’t need to. If his OF or other revenues are bringing in tens of thousands a year or more, he has less incentive to do the rough and dirty challenging work of taking on a diverse array of in-person clients. If he is seeing traditional escort clients, he’s doing it at a rate that is worth his time and energy. That rate has to be compelling enough to influence him to take on work he otherwise doesn’t have to because he makes a decent living without it. Maybe that rate is $300 or $400 or something else. So what if he has much fewer clients? It doesn’t actually matter to him because he isn’t relying on one income from those clients. A few clients take him on at his higher rate and then he has even less reason to work for less, considering he could take half as many clients and make the same! 

All of these reasons and more contribute to the prices being what they are today. It’s not a random high number designed to piss you off. It’s based on market forces and global changes in the industry. If you want to hire for an unrealistic maximum, good luck to you. The pool of guys willing to entertain you at that rate will continue to get smaller and smaller over time. They exist, and you’re not wrong for hiring them, but you are wrong to place an unreasonable rate cap expectation on the whole industry.

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

I think what's most telling/revealing in this thread are posters who are dictating what rates should be for another human being.  How this rate is too much, period.  That a cap for an escort should exist.

Sorry kids...  That's not going to happen.  And as much as you don't like it, prices aren't backsliding down to when you did most of your hiring in the early-aughts.  Time marches forward and so does cost of living.

Like I said before, if it's too much, move on.  Keep it simple.

Don't show your hand and make it personal.  That's a classic ham-and-egger move.

 

Edited May 24, 2023 by BenjaminNicholas

[mike carey]

As others have said, if $400 is too much for you don't pay it, but to say that $400 is a price that is beyond the Pale is to bay at the moon. You can no more command the price of an escort go down than you can command that of the price of petrol, all you can do is shop around. As @Simon Suraci and @BenjaminNicholas have said far more eloquently than I ever could, escorts are running a business. They set their prices and they live and die on whether they can attract customers at those prices. Some set prices below $400 and that works for them, others charge $400 or more and still succeed. That's life.

[Milo Janus]

Here is one of the main reasons I think $400 is too much that I did not elucidate in my opening post:  How long before that $400 becomes $500?  How long before that $500 becomes $600 and so on?  At this rate, the 'normal' rate will be $1,000/hr or very close to it by 2030.   You can quote me on that.

[+ FrankR]

8 minutes ago, Milo Janus said:

Here is one of the main reasons I think $400 is too much that I did not elucidate in my opening post:  How long before that $400 becomes $500?  How long before that $500 becomes $600 and so on?  At this rate, the 'normal' rate will be $1,000/hr or very close to it by 2030.   You can quote me on that.

This “Mr Freeze” thing makes no sense to me. Would you be willing to have your employer freeze your salary at 2020 levels? Of course not. So why would you expect that from a provider?  🤔

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

2 hours ago, Milo Janus said:

Here is one of the main reasons I think $400 is too much that I did not elucidate in my opening post:  How long before that $400 becomes $500?  How long before that $500 becomes $600 and so on?  At this rate, the 'normal' rate will be $1,000/hr or very close to it by 2030.   You can quote me on that.

It's as if you never noticed that new vehicles that were $7k in 1976 are now $40k+

Or, that gasoline was 75-85 cents a gallon through much of the '80s.  Now $4/gal all-in seems cheap.

No amount of hemming and hawing will stop prices- of anything- from increasing.  That is the nature of economics and the simple ugly truth of inflation.  

You do always have a choice:  Either play the game or get off the ferris wheel altogether. 

In your original post you turned the phrase average joes...  But truth be told, most of this industry doesn't cater or function around those with minimal funds.  This is a recreational activity for gentleman who have the discretionary income to purchase what they want, when they want it. 

That doesn't have to mean filthy rich, but certainly financially secure enough to not sweat the single hourly meet.

Edited May 24, 2023 by BenjaminNicholas

[menaughty]

@Simon Suraci

Thank you for your detailed post. Though I would never agree on $400 but your post made me see things from providers perspective. I respect that. 

 

[Enronnja]

For the persons who keep saying, its the reality of cost of living? That's the point, wages are not keeping up with the cost of living. Unless those pushing back are simply saying, this is an industry for people with only deep pockets? I gave my opinion its too much and I do move on. I either go to my local bate club, or bathhouse or use the apps and I have two hookups scheduled this week. Also, every evening at the train station, I have hot muscular bottoms sending me provocative pics to drop a load and leave. So, I am not really missing out here. But how far can you go for sex? Are providers really ready to risk pricing themselves out of the business? I turned to RM because I got tired of the games on the apps. But that seemed to have changed in the past year with more successful commitments.

[Simon Suraci]

3 hours ago, menaughty said:

@Simon Suraci

Thank you for your detailed post. Though I would never agree on $400 but your post made me see things from providers perspective. I respect that. 

 

You’re welcome. I’m glad the post helped shed some light on the dynamics of pricing.

I’m not here to convince anyone that they should necessarily be paying $400/hr across the board in 2023, but hope to give some context for how some providers land on a high number.

If anything, I think the baseline number right now in 2023 is $300, before applying a myriad of factors to push it lower or higher. Some may disagree, and that’s fine, it’s just my opinion. Even $300 is high for many folks, and particularly harsh on those accustomed to paying closer to $200 just one or two decades ago.

You will always find lower numbers and higher numbers, sometimes with no correlation to a subjective notion of quality. That’s just the nature of the beast.

It’s up to the client to shop around, do some homework and determine his own measure of value and apply it to his specific situation. Between the choices available, he can decide who is the best fit for him. If ALL of the available choices cost too much, that’s the client’s problem, not a market problem.

As always, COM is an excellent resource to do said homework. Your peers have seen the men you are considering hiring. Their intel is invaluable for helping you steer clear of the duds, and toward the men who are going to bring the most value to you.

At the end of the day, you should feel really happy you hired, like it was a worthwhile amazing experience, money well spent. Homework can’t guarantee this result for you, but the effort of shopping around greatly improves your chances of success.

With the above in mind, I encourage thinking about maximizing the value a provider brings to you rather than minimizing the cost of hiring altogether. If you’re going to drop any number of hundreds of dollars, it should be for the right experience for you.

[+ purplekow]

I have been hiring for a long time and I pretty much hire men I have hired in the past.  They may have changed their rates, but not for me.  So, if you want a bargain, find a regular or 4 and keep them for years.  If you want variety once and again, dig a little deeper or look a litter longer.  

If the rates are too high for your budget or your taste, a simple I can do 50 less or I can do 2 hours at a lesser per hour might change the tune. If not, move on or pay up.