Who chooses their sexual orientation?

[NJF]

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02312-0

[NJF]

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2155810-what-do-the-new-gay-genes-tell-us-about-sexual-orientation/

[+ nycman]

2 hours ago, pubic_assistance said:

I love hearing stories of people's journey to love.

I love fucking men. Only men. Always men. Men, men, men…..

It ain’t always love……but it ain’t bad!

On a serious note, I’ve really enjoyed reading the viewpoints of others
who have lived, or perhaps even chosen, a different path. The truth is 
each of us is living the only life he can….his own. I respect that my 
experience is no one’s but my own. 

I have loved gay men, I have loved bisexual men, and I have loved 
straight men. And in turn, I have been loved by all of the above. 
Each with it’s challenges and frustrations.

Was it nature, was it nurture, or was it just a two horney teenaged
kids? Who the fuck knows, or cares. Any man who’s good at being
"little spoon", is welcome in my bed.

Like I said, I’m 100% homo, but I love all men. 

[wsc]

A straight friend of mine once asked me when I first decided I was gay. I told him it was March 12, 1972, about 6:00 o'clock in the morning. I was in the bathroom shaving and watching myself in the mirror. I began to evaluate my life and where it was heading. Then I thought, "You know, I think that from this moment on, starting today, right now, I'm going to find men instead of women sexually attractive and compatible. Yeah, that sounds right. That's my new plan! Damn, glad I got that out of the way!" Then I looked at my friend in way that made him know I thought he'd asked a stupid question. 

It's not a decision, it's a discovery. It's not a choice, it's more like left to chance. As others have said, science doesn't have a fully developed and definitive explanation of the cause of homosexuality, nor of heterosexuality for that matter, other than it's the norm of the species. But just as there are dark-haired Swedes and blond Italians, individuals can sometimes differ from the norms.

It's also not uniform, it's a scale. Some men are completely straight (at 0 on the scale) and others are exclusively gay (or as I call it, a perfect 10). The OP is bisexual, which does give him a range of choices. But I'm not bi, and certainly not straight, so my choices are more limited.

The closet I've ever been to female genitalia was at birth, and I've never looked back. I like my women like I like my coffee. I don't like coffee. And if someone would ask me what I'd like in a woman, I'd say I like mine on the taller side, with broader shoulders and a bigger d**k.

But that's just me. YMMV.

[Milo Janus]

I can remember from my earliest memories always looking for biceps.  I loved them then and I lust for them now, and a lot more.  So, yeah I was born gay.  As a female comedian once said, "I didn't choose to be gay, I was chosen!"

[Guest]

1 hour ago, pubic_assistance said:

..."Scientists do not know the exact cause of sexual orientation, but they theorize that it is caused by a complex interplay of genetic, hormonal and environmental influences.;

I don't think you understand what "environmental influences" means here. This term can encompass a wide myriad of influences, and, in the case of sexual orientation, this refers to the environment to which the fetus is exposed in the womb. It definitely includes the biological mechanism, and definitely does NOT mean "how the boy was raised." Among the mountains of data which point to biological mechanisms, are a number of studies showing certain maternal antibodies being present in the womb of those who end up gay, and absent in those who do not. Obviously, the antibodies are neither genetic, nor hormonal, but constitute part of the biological mechanisms involved in determining sexual orientation. There are many twins who grow up to discover their sexual orientations are opposite, and obviously they get raised identically (unless and until the parents allow the children to express their inner-felt preferences). This is more common in non-identical than in identical twins (hence the genetic influence). 

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

9 hours ago, Milo Janus said:

I can remember from my earliest memories always looking for biceps.  I loved them then and I lust for them now, and a lot more.  So, yeah I was born gay.  As a female comedian once said, "I didn't choose to be gay, I was chosen!"

My obsession was abs and pecs.  I couldn't look away from the Bowflex commercials as early as 1st grade.

[pubic_assistance]

16 minutes ago, Unicorn said:

I don't think you understand what "environmental influences" means here

Oh..I understand completely.

YOU are choosing to understand it in ONE of the meanings to make your point heard.

The Prenatal environment is ONE component of the referenced "environment", not the ONLY component.

 

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, pubic_assistance said:

...The Prenatal environment is ONE component of the referenced "environment", not the ONLY component.

According to what scientific study? Upbringing has been debunked as an environmental factor.

Edited January 12, 2023 by Unicorn

[pubic_assistance]

9 minutes ago, Vegas_nw1982 said:

My obsession was abs and pecs.  I couldn't look away from the Bowflex commercials as early as 1st grade.

Similar for me. In high school, I was a wrestler and the guys on the team were incredibly muscular (esp.considering our young age of 16). I found the sculpting of their musculature irresistible, although I did need to resist because I thought masculine boys weren't supposed to get it on with other masculine boys. ( damn.. was I wrong ! ).

My earliest memory however was my first day of Kindergarten. My mother picked me up from school and asked me how I liked school. I told her the teacher was nice, they gave us cookies and milk, and that I met a cute girl and a cute boy. She stopped me right there and sat me down and had a talk with me that sticks in my brain to this day.

You can think the GIRLS are "cute", but how the boys look doesn't matter to another boy. You just like them as friends. You DON'T like them in that way.  A person has very few memories from 5 years old...but that event lives in my brain to this day.

Edited January 12, 2023 by pubic_assistance
grammar

[pubic_assistance]

Michael Balter for Science Magazine:

"Twin studies of sexual orientation have suggested varying degrees of genetic and environmental influences. But they have suffered from the limitations typical of all twin studies. These include small sample sizes and assumptions that identical and fraternal twins both have the same family environments; if identical twins are treated more similarly by their parents than fraternal twins, for example, this could be mistaken for a genetic influence.

"SAME FAMILY ENVIRONMENT" is postnatal, not prenatal.

[+ Pensant]

The last woman I fucked was in 2000. Since then it’s been all men, all the time.

[musclestuduws]

21 hours ago, Milo Janus said:

I can remember from my earliest memories always looking for biceps.  I loved them then and I lust for them now, and a lot more.  So, yeah I was born gay.  As a female comedian once said, "I didn't choose to be gay, I was chosen!"

For me it was hairy muscular legs. My earliest memories of feeling aroused by men is from going to gym class and noticing the friends who developed early and had beautiful, muscular legs with some hair already. I couldn’t stop looking at them. It took me a long time to accept it though. I kept dating women and enjoyed it. But the attraction to virile, muscular men was too strong to ignore. Still today, legs and butts are the first thing that catches my attention when I’m attracted to a guy. Then of course everything else, including a sexy face and smile. 

Edited January 13, 2023 by musclestuduws

[+ WilliamM]

On 1/11/2023 at 7:58 AM, Unicorn said:

This has been "discussed" ad nauseam in other strings. Anyone who's really interested in the subject can look at the extensive research which has been done on the subject, and understand that sexual orientation is determined by birth (or, less likely, soon thereafter). It's far more complex than simple genetics, especially in the Mendelian sense, since identical twins can, on occasion, have opposite sexual orientations. I'll never forget the 60 Minutes episode in which two identical twin boys decorated their rooms completely differently: one with military themes and GI Joes, the other with pink, and unicorns jumping over clouds. The mother noted their vastly different personalities since they were toddlers. 

Anyone can look up the science online if he's really interested. As others have pointed out, one can choose to deny one's sexual orientation, and even get married to a person of the opposite gender and have children, but I somehow doubt those people ever live satisfied lives. But whether or not sexual orientation is a choice has been thoroughly studied, and we know the answer. Socratic argument will not change the facts. 

 

I don't remember checking out dicks asses in the shower until we moved to s town with many Italian student's.

 

[Marc in Calif]

21 hours ago, NJF said:

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2155810-what-do-the-new-gay-genes-tell-us-about-sexual-orientation/

An article from more than five years ago? Why?

[pubic_assistance]

39 minutes ago, WilliamM said:

I don't remember checking out dicks asses in the shower until we moved to s town with many Italian students.

I must say I did always like the Italian boys.

 

[+ WilliamM]

53 minutes ago, Marc in Calif said:

An article from more than five years ago? Why?

There is no time limit on articles

[Marc in Calif]

22 minutes ago, WilliamM said:

There is no time limit on articles

On articles about science? There's most definitely a time limit.

Science is "current" only until another scientist tries to replicate or demonstrate the previous conclusions. Or until another scientist supplies additional or corrected data and conclusions. Then another article is written and is "current" only until the NEXT scientist publishes a revised hypothesis and tests/confirmation. Ad infinitum until a generally accepted theory is established -- like gravity.

See how science works?

[+ WilliamM]

41 minutes ago, Marc in Calif said:

On articles about science? There's most definitely a time limit.

Science is "current" only until another scientist tries to replicate or demonstrate the previous conclusions. Or until another scientist supplies additional or corrected data and conclusions. Then another article is written and is "current" only until the NEXT scientist publishes a revised hypothesis and tests/confirmation. Ad infinitum until a generally accepted theory is established -- like gravity.

See how science works?

I have been posted herefor Yers. This is usually a friendly place

[NJF]

2 hours ago, Marc in Calif said:

An article from more than five years ago? Why?

It is written for a general audience and more accessible than the other one that I posted.

[Guest]

13 hours ago, Marc in Calif said:

On articles about science? There's most definitely a time limit...

Not necessarily, though a newer article may (or may not) supplant it. Unless the facts on the ground change, an older article may be definitive. Of course, if the study examines a rapidly-changing subject, such as SARS-CoV2, an older article may be useless. Otherwise, older articles may be definitive even decades later. 

[Medin]

On 1/11/2023 at 12:08 PM, WilliamM said:

The  1970s were five decades ago, my friend. Young people don't know who  Jerry Falwell and Anita Bryant were.

True, but I'm sure there are plenty of guys on this forum who remember Jerry Falwell, Anita Bryant and the whole list of other bigots that made life Hell for so many.  

[Medin]

Who would have thought that in 2023 we are still debating whether sexual orientation is "chosen" or not-especially on a forum which is made up largely of gay men.  I keep having to remind myself I'm not on a website run by the Family Research Council or Westboro Baptist Church.  

[pubic_assistance]

1 hour ago, Medin said:

Who would have thought that in 2023 we are still debating whether sexual orientation is "chosen" or not-especially on a forum which is made up largely of gay men.  I keep having to remind myself I'm not on a website run by the Family Research Council or Westboro Baptist Church.  

You made the point right there in your response. You automatically assumed that everyone here is gay.

My question was posed to those who don't identify as 100% gay.

Not everyone in the forum has his buried in the sand, pretending that he is a victim of predetermined destiny.

 

[Medin]

15 minutes ago, pubic_assistance said:

You made the point right there in your response. You automatically assumed that everyone here is gay.

My question was posed to those who don't identify as 100% gay.

Not everyone in the forum has his buried in the sand, pretending that he is a victim of predetermined destiny.

 

No I didn't.  As I said "on a forum made up largely of gay men"-not all.   I doubt we have too many people on this forum with their heads buried in the sand and even fewer who think they are a "victim of predetermined destiny".   There seems to be a lot of confusion between sexual orientation and lifestyle.  There may be fluidity in both, but they are not the same.