Do you think current controversies with the transgender movement are making being gay more socially acceptable?

[Rudynate]

On 11/24/2022 at 10:09 AM, Charlie said:

I used to fantasize about being a girl when I was an adolescent, but it was basically because girls could kiss boys. Once I found that I could date boys, too, I lost interest in transitioning.

I was a girlish boy and I wanted to do girlish things like play with dolls.  I think I even told my mother once that I wished I was a girl, mostly because girls got to do girlish things.  In grade school I thought the teachers preferred girls.  The girls were all dainty and smug and the boys were always getting sent to the corner for one reason or another. 

Having grown up, I think there is no greater joy than being a gay man.   We get to have beards and hairy chests and all that manly stuff AND we get to make it with guys.  Doesn't get much better than that.

[+ José Soplanucas]

11 hours ago, arnemgreeves said:

On paper, maybe. But in reality, many trans people still resort to sex work, without any other opportunities. South Africa vis a vis most ofo Africa has lgbt rights on paper, but on the ground the reality is different. Rio or Sao Paolo might have gay villages, but that doesn't mean the country is generally accepting of non-cis/non-straight people.

I do not think you know what your are talking about. In Brazil, Argentina, and Colombia there are no gay villages. Fluid sexuality is all over.

There is transphobia, yes, but just as there is in North America or Europe. Or you think all American trans have a position in the Federal Government?

[+ José Soplanucas]

12 hours ago, Isrhunter said:

I am empathetic to trans people but I think their fight is separate from lesbians, gays, and bis. What they want and we want are different.

We? who? Do you think all lesbians, gays, and bis share the same fight? I do not think so.

If you do, I do not understand why you think trans do not.

I think all alternative identities share the same fight.

[+ José Soplanucas]

2 hours ago, Rudynate said:

I was a girlish boy and I wanted to do girlish things like play with dolls.  I think I even told my mother once that I wished I was a girl, mostly because girls got to do girlish things.  In grade school I thought the teachers preferred girls.  The girls were all dainty and smug and the boys were always getting sent to the corner for one reason or another. 

Having grown up, I think there is no greater joy than being a gay man.   We get to have beards and hairy chests and all that manly stuff AND we get to make it with guys.  Doesn't get much better than that.

I am glad you are happy with who you are. But I do not understand why you think that being a gay man is better than being anything else. 

After all, you could have followed your childhood's girlish dreams. Who knows? Perhaps, you could have become a happy woman with a beard and hairy chests and all that girlish stuff AND you could be making it with many guys. 

[caramelsub]

 

17 minutes ago, José Soplanucas said:

We? who? Do you think all lesbians, gays, and bis share the same fight? I do not think so.

If you do, I do not understand why you think trans do not.

I think all alternative identities share the same fight.

I don’t think lgb issues and trans issues are the same. I’m a believer in trans rights, but being lgb and being trans are vastly different. I don’t believe their fights are the same. Same sex attraction versus gender identification. A trans man or trans woman can be attracted to either women or men. And most lgb people have no desire to change their birth gender.

[Rudynate]

1 hour ago, José Soplanucas said:

I am glad you are happy with who you are. But I do not understand why you think that being a gay man is better than being anything else. 

After all, you could have followed your childhood's girlish dreams. Who knows? Perhaps, you could have become a happy woman with a beard and hairy chests and all that girlish stuff AND you could be making it with many guys. 

I do do girlish stuff- I take good care of my man, I spend lots of time primping, I enjoy needlework, I love my cats, my guests leave my dinner table in awe at the meal they just had, etc etc.  

[Isrhunter]

1 hour ago, José Soplanucas said:

We? who? Do you think all lesbians, gays, and bis share the same fight? I do not think so.

If you do, I do not understand why you think trans do not.

I think all alternative identities share the same fight.

Same sex attraction and gender reassignment are vastly different subjects with different issues. 

LGB = same sex attraction

T = transitioning to the opposite gender from assigned at birth

We can be empathetic to one another as we are both marginalized groups however to say we are one in the same is disingenuous.  

[+ José Soplanucas]

2 hours ago, Isrhunter said:

We can be empathetic to one another as we are both marginalized groups however to say we are one in the same is disingenuous.

I partially agree with you. I said that our fight is the same if you act after that empathy.

[+ José Soplanucas]

By the way, kudos to all of us. This thread is borderline Political Forum, but we all have behave so far.😇

[jeezifonly]

I’m curious about the term “socially acceptable” in 2022. 
It used to refer to behavior, and acquiescence to the restriction of that behavior in order to not make others feel awkward or uncomfortable.

Past socially unacceptable behavior could be not RSVP’ing to an invitation. Regularly being drunk at dinner parties. Wearing swimwear while pregnant. Using the wrong piece of flatware. Arguing with a spouse in public. Wearing white after Labor Day. 

Since we cannot dismiss groups of people as “behavior” what does it mean today? What behavior is considered socially unacceptable today?

 

[pubic_assistance]

19 minutes ago, jeezifonly said:

What behavior is considered socially unacceptable today?

Using your salad fork during the main course.

[jeezifonly]

52 minutes ago, pubic_assistance said:

Using your salad fork during the main course.

In my house that’ll get your jabot slapped six ways to le dimanche. 

[caramelsub]

5 hours ago, jeezifonly said:

I’m curious about the term “socially acceptable” in 2022. 
It used to refer to behavior, and acquiescence to the restriction of that behavior in order to not make others feel awkward or uncomfortable.

Past socially unacceptable behavior could be not RSVP’ing to an invitation. Regularly being drunk at dinner parties. Wearing swimwear while pregnant. Using the wrong piece of flatware. Arguing with a spouse in public. Wearing white after Labor Day. 

Since we cannot dismiss groups of people as “behavior” what does it mean today? What behavior is considered socially unacceptable today?

 

I first learned of the term socially acceptable by a mental health social worker. So I’m going to use that context related to the mental health field as my example.
It is now socially accepted for celebrities to come out and say they have suffered from certain mental health disorders. Mainly depression and anxiety. It is becoming slightly more socially acceptable for celebrities to say they suffer from bipolar disorder. However it is not yet socially acceptable for a celebrity or public figure to come out and say they have a disorder such as schizophrenia or other psychotic disorder. You just don’t hear about celebrities disclosing that.

[+ ButchAtl]

I'm happy that its easier these days for eyeryone to "be who they are" etc., but I really donlt understand the seemingly sudden explosion  of the number of transgender people.  I'm sure they have always been among the population, but now it seems as if there are so much more prevalent and  visible.  At least the media seemd to give a lot of coverage to the issue.

Or perhaps society is just more tolerant and  the transgender people feel free to become known? 

Edited December 3, 2022 by ButchAtl
spelling

[ColumbianXChange]

25 minutes ago, ButchAtl said:

I'm happy that its easier these days for eyeryone to "be who they are" etc., but I really donlt understand the seemingly sudden explosion  of the number of transgender people.  I'm sure they have always been among the population, but now it seems as if there are so many more prevalent and  visable.  At least the media seemd to give a lot of coverage to the issue.

Or perhaps society is just more tolerant and  the transgender people feel free to become known? 

i had read somewhere that it's all because of being wokeness into the military

[Rudynate]

18 hours ago, José Soplanucas said:

I do not think you know what your are talking about. In Brazil, Argentina, and Colombia there are no gay villages. Fluid sexuality is all over.

There is transphobia, yes, but just as there is in North America or Europe. Or you think all American trans have a position in the Federal Government?

We do have elected representatives who are trans.

[ColumbianXChange]

On 11/24/2022 at 10:08 AM, José Soplanucas said:

Being gay was already more socially accepted when the trans controversy raised. Y

clearly not to everyone!

[ColumbianXChange]

13 hours ago, jeezifonly said:

I’m curious about the term “socially acceptable” in 2022. 
It used to refer to behavior, and acquiescence to the restriction of that behavior in order to not make others feel awkward or uncomfortable.

Past socially unacceptable behavior could be not RSVP’ing to an invitation. Regularly being drunk at dinner parties. Wearing swimwear while pregnant. Using the wrong piece of flatware. Arguing with a spouse in public. Wearing white after Labor Day. 

Since we cannot dismiss groups of people as “behavior” what does it mean today? What behavior is considered socially unacceptable today?

 

you raise an important point here, and perhaps "socially acceptable" does not apply here at all....  and "behaviors" may equally not apply

i think the issue is what persons are relegated to the margins - are deprived of the right to happiness and equality.... are threatened by ostracism and the accompanying violence...

[josh282282]

On 11/25/2022 at 1:23 AM, Vegas_nw1982 said:

However, in the late 2010s survey results showed a declining trend in young adult approval of gays, around the time of the school bathroom gender controversy began. Therefore, gays have given a spotlight to transgender, but transgender is reversing gay acceptance a little bit.

No, no, no. The transgender community is NOT to blame for the reversing of gay acceptance of the Gay community.  Not in in long shot.  If there is one to blame for any reversing of Gay acceptance is its the hate-mongering that has come from religious extremists  and right-wing politicians who hate anything that's different. Right-wing politicians curry favor from their right-wing base by fostering hate-mongering. This only augments more hate in society, which spills over to other communities.  To blame the transgender community is very misplaced and deeply disappointing. 
 

 

On 11/30/2022 at 7:05 PM, pubic_assistance said:

I would point out that this coincides with the young adult trend of declaring themselves "poly".

And to insinuate any reversing of gay acceptance of the Gay community is due to the Poly(amorous) community is also misplaced and inaccurate.   The Poly community is about Love and increasing the ability to Love.  There is nothing about hate.  How does anyone come across Love and turn it to hate? Anyone interfacing with the Poly community & then diminishing their acceptance of different community (the Gay community) only reveals that persons own inability to love, and rather, to hate.  The Poly community are not to blame.  I inadvertently became friends with some people in the Poly community roughly 10 yrs ago.  I found them to so loving and kind, not only to one another, but to me.  I saw no arrogance of superiority-like stance in them to me or others.  They totally knew I was Gay and they knew I was not equipped/capable of having a poly relationship.  Nevertheless, they treated me wonderfully.  

Tragically, the transgender community is such a misunderstood & maligned group by society. But we are an amazing group of Gay/Bi men on this board.  We must not buy, misdirect, or buy into hate.  This board is full of (mostly) intelligent, kind and generous men who I hope agree with me. 

 

much love to all,

Josh

Edited December 4, 2022 by josh282282
Clarification

[pubic_assistance]

19 minutes ago, josh282282 said:

To insinuate any reversing of gay acceptance of the Gay community is due to the Poly(amorous) community is also misplaced and inaccurate.   The Poly community is about Love and increasing the ability to Love.  There is nothing about hate

Reading comprehension is important in a conversational thread.

No one mentioned anything about "hate".

QUOTE:  "In the late 2010s survey results showed a declining trend in young adult approval of gays."

The conversation here is about "approval".  I disagree with your opinion about the poly community being incapable of prejudice. The poly community is quite sure they've found nirvana and are in fact quite prejudiced against people who subscribe to the traditional categories including homosexuals.

[ColumbianXChange]

3 minutes ago, pubic_assistance said:

Reading comprehension is important in a conversational thread.

No one mentioned anything about "hate".

QUOTE:  "In the late 2010s survey results showed a declining trend in young adult approval of gays."

The conversation here is about "approval".  I disagree with your opinion about the poly community being incapable of prejudice. The poly community is quite sure they've found nirvana and are in fact quite prejudiced against people who subscribe to the traditional categories including homosexuals.

pet·ti·fog·ger

  (pĕt′ē-fŏg′ər, -fô′gər)

n.

1. A lawyer whose practice involves petty matters or who lacks sound legal judgment or skills.

2. One who quibbles over trivia.

 

[pubic_assistance]

1 hour ago, ColumbianXChange said:

pet·ti·fog·ger

  (pĕt′ē-fŏg′ər, -fô′gər)

n.

1. A lawyer whose practice involves petty matters or who lacks sound legal judgment or skills.

2. One who quibbles over trivia.

 

There is very much an IMPORTANT distinction between disapproval and "hate".

Hardly a trivial matter.

[+ José Soplanucas]

4 hours ago, Rudynate said:

We do have elected representatives who are trans.

We also do in South America. Google it.

[jeezifonly]

4 hours ago, ColumbianXChange said:

you raise an important point here, and perhaps "socially acceptable" does not apply here at all....  and "behaviors" may equally not apply

i think the issue is what persons are relegated to the margins - are deprived of the right to happiness and equality.... are threatened by ostracism and the accompanying violence...

I raised the issue of behavior vs persons because discussion of persons’ acceptance because of who they are seemed like a larger more political issue, not for this forum. 
 

Behavior can be changed by individuals to become acceptable, or the standard of what’s acceptable can become less rigid over time to allow formerly shunned behaviors.

“Socially acceptable” as a term originally referred to changeable behaviors. Applying it now to immutable characteristics is probably not a good way to frame the issue, IMO

 

[pubic_assistance]

2 hours ago, jeezifonly said:

“Socially acceptable” as a term originally referred to changeable behaviors. Applying it now to immutable characteristics is probably not a good way to frame the issue, IMO

 

Some people who lack reading comprehension, will try and hijack the conversation to a subject that they CAN talk about instead. Sadly, with the poor state of education in this country, you are starting to see this anti-intellectual behavior more and more.