Would you only hire providers vaccinated for monkeypox?

[Guest]

I clicked on the link from the new member who was asking about escorts in Las Vegas (there was a great one I hired a few years ago), and I noticed many escorts now advertise being vaccinated for monkeypox. I'm not hiring any more, but I'm wondering for those who are--do you limit hiring to those vaccinated for monkeypox, or is it enough that you examine their skin before proceeding? When Covid-19 was far more virulent than it is now, I only hired those who were vaccinated, but I'm not sure about monkeypox. I suppose being vaccinated would certainly be a selling point, but I'm not sure being unvaccinated would be a deal-breaker. Obviously, I feel all escorts should get vaccinated. Public health officials appear confident that lesions need to be present for transmission to occur, however. So I don't know if it'd be a deal-breaker. 

[+ nycman]

I would only hire someone who has gotten their 1st shot at least 4 weeks ago.

I’d prefer 2 weeks after 2nd shot, but that prospect is looking dimmer everyday.

[pubic_assistance]

Would you only hire providers vaccinated for monkeypox?

Does the Pope shit in the woods ? 😝

 

[Jim_n_NYC]

I've seen a lot of the ads saying that they are vaccinated for MP.  But I wonder how they ALL can be since I doubt they all got their first shot at least 6 weeks ago.

I did see one provider who said he had gotten his first shot.  Kudos to that guy.

[TylerInTexas]

I would want some documentation to see they were truly vaxxed.

[SirBillybob]

Any provider could be among the 10,000+ confirmed infected so far, possibly multiples of that depending on undercount. It appears that minimally 1/150 of the hypothetical at-risk have or will imminently have natural immunity. Therefore, the question is whether they have bona fide immunity versus comparatively questionable artificial immunity, assuming the former reflects true disease clearance. And will a provider want to report having recovered from infection? Two levels of documentation a client may appreciate, one of them subcategorized according to dosing?

It’s all very flaccidizing. 

Edited August 11, 2022 by SirBillybob

[kingsley88]

Would you hire someone who already had monkeypox and is now completely healed?

[+ nycman]

15 hours ago, SirBillybob said:

It’s all very flaccidizing

Holy crap!….you’ve invented a new word.

37 minutes ago, kingsley88 said:

Would you hire someone who already had monkeypox and is now completely healed?

Yes. 

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

No, I would not restrict hiring to only those who provide me their vaccination records.  I do not ask vaccination status for any disease.

Edited August 13, 2022 by Vegas_nw1982

[Guest]

6 hours ago, kingsley88 said:

Would you hire someone who already had monkeypox and is now completely healed?

Absolutely. Probably has life-long immunity (not that anyone knows for certainty at this point, but if things are similar for smallpox and monkeypox).

[Guest]

21 hours ago, Jim_n_NYC said:

I've seen a lot of the ads saying that they are vaccinated for MP.  But I wonder how they ALL can be since I doubt they all got their first shot at least 6 weeks ago.

I did see one provider who said he had gotten his first shot.  Kudos to that guy.

Although public health officials may be saying it takes 6 weeks to have full immunity, most immunizations provide good protection 2 weeks after the shot (intramuscular), so I'd personally feel pretty safe if he were over 2 weeks past the shot. One of "Chris's" friends got the shot 3 weeks ago by going to an LGBT health clinic and telling them he had burning on urination, which resulted in STD checks and the immunization being offered on the spot. My beau "Chris" almost got the shot with the same tactic (he does go to raves with some pretty close contact), although by the time he was seen, they had just run out of shots. I'd guess escorts would be among the first to be offered the shots, so they should be available. I don't feel comfortable lying about symptoms, so I'll wait my turn, I guess. 

When Pfizer and Moderna did their testing for the old Covid-19 original strain, Pfizer started looking at data 1 week after the 2nd shot, 3 weeks apart, or 4 weeks after the first shot. Moderna took a more conservative tactic, looking at data 2 weeks after the 2nd shot, 4 weeks apart, so 6 weeks after the 1st shot. In that instance, Pfizer edged out Moderna. 

[Guest]

22 hours ago, pubic_assistance said:

Would you only hire providers vaccinated for monkeypox?

Does the Pope shit in the woods ? 😝

 

[nate_sf]

39 minutes ago, Unicorn said:

I don't feel comfortable lying about symptoms, so I'll wait my turn, I guess.

At least here in SF, my understanding is that if someone is showing symptoms, they are possibly eligible for treatment but are no longer eligible for vaccination.

The thinking is that if someone is already symptomatic, it's too late. They'll need to endure the infection, but will conclude with a degree of immunity. Therefore, vaccines are being offered to those who do not have symptoms, whereas those who have symptoms may be eligible for medication to help with the infection.

When I went to SF General for my shot, there were a number of screening questions, including whether or not symptoms are present. I didn't check any of the symptoms boxes so not sure what would have happened if I had. There were the other usual boxes to check about MSM, exposure to known or suspected infected individuals, sex work, etc.

This may be a shift in policy from earlier. I'd messaged another escort through Rentmen who indicated he'd received his vaccination in July, so I asked him where and how. He said he had gone to the local clinic last month for his regular 3-month STD checkup, and they asked if he wanted the monkeypox vaccine since he was already there. He was not symptomatic, but may have disclosed that he is a sex worker. 

[Guest]

5 hours ago, nate_sf said:

At least here in SF, my understanding is that if someone is showing symptoms, they are possibly eligible for treatment but are no longer eligible for vaccination.

The thinking is that if someone is already symptomatic, it's too late....

I believe you may have misread the post you were quoting. The friend who got the shot was offered it because he complained of symptoms of another STD (burning on urination), not symptoms of monkeypox. It seems that as of this time, the immunization is being prioritized to those who engage in high-risk activity, particularly gay men with STD's. 

[nate_sf]

17 minutes ago, Unicorn said:

I believe you may have misread the post you were quoting. The friend who got the shot was offered it because he complained of symptoms of another STD (burning on urination), not symptoms of monkeypox. It seems that as of this time, the immunization is being prioritized to those who engage in high-risk activity, particularly gay men with STD's. 

Got it. Yes, I misread. 

[+ Tygerscent]

On 8/11/2022 at 2:38 PM, TylerInTexas said:

I would want some documentation to see they were truly vaxxed.

This telltale spot on one’s forearm from the SubDermal MPv stays with you for a few weeks~ …and be sure to get your stickers~ I travel with all of my Vax records including covid, MPv, HPV, rabies, Japanese encephalitis, meningitis, typhoid, yellow fever, MMR, etc~ Here’s my MPv spot from my second Vax and my stickers~ 

Edited September 4, 2022 by Tygerscent

[+ Tygerscent]

On 8/12/2022 at 6:46 PM, nate_sf said:

Got it. Yes, I misread. 

Interesting… I was eligible for my shots because I’m a Provider~ I Got my second shot 30/09/22~ 
 Of the qualifying criteria for MPv in washington state, having symptoms of an STI isn’t one of those~  

[+ Tygerscent]

On 8/12/2022 at 12:53 PM, nate_sf said:

At least here in SF, my understanding is that if someone is showing symptoms, they are possibly eligible for treatment but are no longer eligible for vaccination.

The thinking is that if someone is already symptomatic, it's too late. They'll need to endure the infection, but will conclude with a degree of immunity. Therefore, vaccines are being offered to those who do not have symptoms, whereas those who have symptoms may be eligible for medication to help with the infection.

When I went to SF General for my shot, there were a number of screening questions, including whether or not symptoms are present. I didn't check any of the symptoms boxes so not sure what would have happened if I had. There were the other usual boxes to check about MSM, exposure to known or suspected infected individuals, sex work, etc.

This may be a shift in policy from earlier. I'd messaged another escort through Rentmen who indicated he'd received his vaccination in July, so I asked him where and how. He said he had gone to the local clinic last month for his regular 3-month STD checkup, and they asked if he wanted the monkeypox vaccine since he was already there. He was not symptomatic, but may have disclosed that he is a sex worker. 

Washington state is the same: if you have symptoms, they will test you for monkeypox and then of positive, put you on the antiviral medication for MP~ If you test positive they won’t give you the vaccine because the vaccine is for people who do not have monkey pox yet and is meant to be a prophylactic measure. 

[+ Tygerscent]

On 8/11/2022 at 2:43 PM, SirBillybob said:

Any provider could be among the 10,000+ confirmed infected so far, possibly multiples of that depending on undercount. It appears that minimally 1/150 of the hypothetical at-risk have or will imminently have natural immunity. Therefore, the question is whether they have bona fide immunity versus comparatively questionable artificial immunity, assuming the former reflects true disease clearance. And will a provider want to report having recovered from infection? Two levels of documentation a client may appreciate, one of them subcategorized according to dosing?

It’s all very flaccidizing. 

If you’re saying that natural immunity is equal to or greater than what you call artificial immunity (which I’m guessing you are referring to vaccinations), where are you getting this information from?

[+ Tygerscent]

On 8/11/2022 at 11:31 AM, Unicorn said:

I clicked on the link from the new member who was asking about escorts in Las Vegas (there was a great one I hired a few years ago), and I noticed many escorts now advertise being vaccinated for monkeypox. I'm not hiring any more, but I'm wondering for those who are--do you limit hiring to those vaccinated for monkeypox, or is it enough that you examine their skin before proceeding? When Covid-19 was far more virulent than it is now, I only hired those who were vaccinated, but I'm not sure about monkeypox. I suppose being vaccinated would certainly be a selling point, but I'm not sure being unvaccinated would be a deal-breaker. Obviously, I feel all escorts should get vaccinated. Public health officials appear confident that lesions need to be present for transmission to occur, however. So I don't know if it'd be a deal-breaker. 

A bit about how MP can spread and be transmitted: https://www.statnews.com/2022/08/10/what-scientists-know-and-dont-know-about-how-monkeypox-spreads/

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-02178-w

[SirBillybob]

7 hours ago, Tygerscent said:

If you’re saying that natural immunity is equal to or greater than what you call artificial immunity (which I’m guessing you are referring to vaccinations), where are you getting this information from?

You are very observant and correct to ask.

Monkeypox reinfection potential is unknown. Smallpox immunity was not guaranteed but considered to be durable. Smallpox reinfection could not be easily observed in a world eventually without disease. 

But apples oranges. I should not infer either equal or superior natural immunity over vaccination immunity because little is known about either reinfection or breakthrough infection, or for that matter transmission potential coinciding with an undetected asymptomatic post-immunity infection.

That said, I might prefer interaction with someone having recently recovered from seasonal flu compared to someone not infected (or yet infected should they eventually get and shed it) during an outbreak even if vaccinated. Flu vaccination is considered to be leaky and we know it and know it well whereas we don’t know much about MVA-BN and are far from knowing about it well.

If you don’t want to catch Monkeypox, don’t engage in the behaviours that potentiate infection. A provider declaring recovery from Monkeypox must weigh the unjustified stigma clients reading the ad might project onto that information in addition to the ambiguity regarding risk. In contrast, completed vaccination status has a flavour of self-efficacy as if the protection conferred can be taken to the bank. Both sides must weigh risk in the context of WHO guidance that underscores that assumptions of recent natural immunity provided by infection in the current outbreak are unsupported.

However, I had raised natural immunity because the trend in the thread is that providers might be sorted according to vaccination status, as if that track to protection had been established. Yet the category of natural immunity had not been mentioned and AFAIK recent recoverers are not deemed candidates for vaccination and cannot declare vaccination in the way that others may as a prematurely assumed advantage in ads.

Neither inferiority nor superiority of one immunity track over the other is established. 

All this said, I tend to evaluate estimates of risk according to background case incidence. [As well as the ‘probability minimum one’ algorithm which I won’t get into here]. About 1,300 Canadians have been diagnosed. Assuming cases almost 100% GBMSM and a per capita denominator specific to that subpopulation estimate the chances of diagnosed Monkeypox infection based on cumulative count to date were 1/200. With no mitigation and no assumed natural immunity (.5% of us) or artificial immunity (20% of us best case scenario, notwithstanding suboptimal efficacy) compared to Spring onset, the average probability of two consecutive infections is about 1/40,000 assuming reinfection is a thing, and presumably less given current prevalence as well as prophylaxis uptake so far.

Edited September 4, 2022 by SirBillybob

[LookingAround]

I’m vaccinated. Twice. I can’t control or verify anyone else’s vax status. My own vax status is enough for me. 

[Rudynate]

On 8/12/2022 at 12:53 PM, nate_sf said:

At least here in SF, my understanding is that if someone is showing symptoms, they are possibly eligible for treatment but are no longer eligible for vaccination.

The thinking is that if someone is already symptomatic, it's too late. They'll need to endure the infection, but will conclude with a degree of immunity. Therefore, vaccines are being offered to those who do not have symptoms, whereas those who have symptoms may be eligible for medication to help with the infection.

When I went to SF General for my shot, there were a number of screening questions, including whether or not symptoms are present. I didn't check any of the symptoms boxes so not sure what would have happened if I had. There were the other usual boxes to check about MSM, exposure to known or suspected infected individuals, sex work, etc.

This may be a shift in policy from earlier. I'd messaged another escort through Rentmen who indicated he'd received his vaccination in July, so I asked him where and how. He said he had gone to the local clinic last month for his regular 3-month STD checkup, and they asked if he wanted the monkeypox vaccine since he was already there. He was not symptomatic, but may have disclosed that he is a sex worker. 

I got my first shot at the beginning of the month at SFGH - short line, fill out some paperwork, bingo!  Out of there in around 30 min.

[Beancounter]

On 9/4/2022 at 4:52 AM, Tygerscent said:

Interesting… I was eligible for my shots because I’m a Provider~ I Got my second shot 30/09/22~ 
 Of the qualifying criteria for MPv in washington state, having symptoms of an STI isn’t one of those~  

Did you mean to say “I get my second shot” instead of “I got”? I’m  reading the date you provided as September 30, 2022…..25 days from now..

[Beancounter]

I received my first dose of the MP vaccine last Monday and asked for a vaccination card or some form of documentation.  The county health nurse said their office did not have vaccination cards like the ones issued for COVID-19.  When I go back for my second shot I’m hoping that has changed and their is a vaccination card they can issue.