Isn't 400 dollars for a hour too much for New York standards?

[Kevin Slater]

46 minutes ago, DrownedBoy said:

I'm wondering - what would happen to rates if, in the United States, sex work was legalized, regulated, and taxed like any other kind of work?

I can think of several opposing factors.

Sex work is taxed, just like any other kind of work.

I suspect rates would fall as one major barrier to entry would be eliminated.  I think more guys would be interested in offering their service, driving prices down. 

Kevin Slater

[xyz48B]

12 minutes ago, Kevin Slater said:

Sex work is taxed, just like any other kind of work.

I suspect rates would fall as one major barrier to entry would be eliminated.  I think more guys would be interested in offering their service, driving prices down. 

Kevin Slater

Could you explain how prostitution is taxed?

[Kevin Slater]

1 minute ago, xyz48B said:

Could you explain how prostitution is taxed?

We don’t discuss illegal activities on this board. Income from escorting, however, is reported on Schedule C, Profit or Loss from a Business. 

Kevin Slater

[guru68]

Assuming it was within my resources to pay $400 an hour, then for me whether or not it was too much would depend entirely on the quality of the experience. 

[Beancounter]

3 hours ago, Kevin Slater said:

We don’t discuss illegal activities on this board. Income from escorting, however, is reported on Schedule C, Profit or Loss from a Business. 

Kevin Slater

While it would be advantageous for escorts to report all of their income on Schedule C you may rest assured the VAST majority of escorts report little to none of their cash income on their tax returns.  You are one of a very few who does.  
 

If I spend $600 with an escort and ask for his SSN and address so I can provide him with a 1099-MISC, how many escorts would fork over that information?  Precious few.  Let’s not kid ourselves here guys.  This is for the most part a cash and carry profession.  Precious little is reported as taxable income.  

[xyz48B]

14 minutes ago, Beancounter said:

While it would be advantageous for escorts to report all of their income on Schedule C you may rest assured the VAST majority of escorts report little to none of their cash income on their tax returns.  You are one of a very few who does.  
 

If I spend $600 with an escort and ask for his SSN and address so I can provide him with a 1099-MISC, how many escorts would fork over that information?  Precious few.  Let’s not kid ourselves here guys.  This is for the most part a cash and carry profession.  Precious little is reported as taxable income.  

And if they do report it, as some say they do through a business like personal trainer or life coach or whatever, that’s called money laundering. The penalties for money laundering are much graver than for prostitution.

@Kevin Slater– Don’t shit on a plate and tell me it’s a chocolate covered brownie. If what you say is true, there’d be no one worried about VICE operations or the FOSTA-SESTA. We most definitely discuss it. Please don’t be disingenuous.

If escorting is what is reported on schedule C as the business, then it’s not sex work that’s taxed. It’s escorting. Which, as you say is legal. But sex work is not. Sex work is a euphemism for prostitution.

So…is sex work taxed or is escorting taxed?

Edited March 12, 2022 by xyz48B

[Scott Virginian]

On 3/10/2022 at 8:27 PM, Luv2play said:

I have been following this thread and I have to say trying to remember what I considered reasonable rates 20 years ago is getting to be difficult. When Hooboys reviews were easy to consult at that time, the rates were usually posted. 

In the early 2000s I often hired in the American market, NY, Miami, Ft Lauderdale and seem to recall $150 being the typical rate. By the mid 2000s maybe $200. It seemed to take a long time to get to $300. I think the financial crisis of 2008 had something to do with it and the great recession which followed.

Now $350 seems the norm altho $300 is still available for a quality experience. $400 is to me on the higher end.

Assuming your recollection is correct (and I don't doubt it), $150-200 in 2000, adjusted for inflation, equals $250-325 in 2022.  So $300/hr is keeping up with inflation; $400/hr is a bit more than just inflation. FWIW.

[xyz48B]

1 minute ago, Scott Virginian said:

Assuming your recollection is correct (and I don't doubt it), $150-200 in 2000, adjusted for inflation, equals $250-325 in 2022.  So $300/hr is keeping up with inflation; $400/hr is a bit more than just inflation. FWIW.

I believe that was pointed out a few pages ago, but it does well to point it out again. I agree with you. But some may not.

[xyz48B]

2 hours ago, guru68 said:

for me whether or not it was too much would depend entirely on the quality of the experience

Yes. Sadly quality isn’t known at the time of money agreement talk. And like I said somewhere, maybe earlier in this thread, no one is getting a refund for unsatisfactory experience. I would pay more to have the peace of mind knowing that the experience will meet expectations.

[rvwnsd]

55 minutes ago, xyz48B said:

...Sex work is a euphemism for prostitution.

A little research on the meaning of "sex work" reveals it includes escorting, performance in and production of pornography, stripping, and providing of phone sex. None of those activities are classified as providing sexual intercourse in exchange for money.

55 minutes ago, xyz48B said:

..So…is sex work taxed or is escorting taxed?

A worker is required to report all of their earned income and pay taxes on that income net of deductions. For a self-employed individual, expenses incurred as a result of running their business can be considered a deduction. The manner by which the individual earns the income is irrelevant. 

55 minutes ago, xyz48B said:

And if they do report it, as some say they do through a business like personal trainer or life coach or whatever, that’s called money laundering. The penalties for money laundering are much graver than for prostitution...

As has been discussed several times, escorting is not illegal. An escort who reports their income as follows 

 

is not misreporting their occupation, is not committing tax evasion (unless they under-report income) and is not engaging in money laundering.   FinCEN (Financial Crimes Enforcement Network, a unit of the United States Department of the Treasury) describes money laundering like this:

"Money laundering is the process of making illegally-gained proceeds (i.e. "dirty money") appear legal (i.e. "clean"). Typically, it involves three steps: placement, layering and integration. First, the illegitimate funds are furtively introduced into the legitimate financial system. Then, the money is moved around to create confusion, sometimes by wiring or transferring through numerous accounts. Finally, it is integrated into the financial system through additional transactions until the "dirty money" appears "clean." Money laundering can facilitate crimes such as drug trafficking and terrorism, and can adversely impact the global economy." 

Describing an escort's business on a tax form as what it is, "escorting," does not involve any of the elements described above. Without the elements described above, there is no money laundering.

 

Bringing this back to the topic, given the cost of living in New York City I don't think $400 per hour for an escort is exorbitant.

[xyz48B]

2 minutes ago, rvwnsd said:

A worker is required to report all of their earned income and pay taxes on that income net of deductions.

And @Beancounter’s post:

1 hour ago, Beancounter said:

Let’s not kid ourselves here guys.  This is for the most part a cash and carry profession.  Precious little is reported as taxable income.  

Please don’t insult our collective intelligence and think that “it’s escorting” will hold water in an actual case, with the IRS or the law on the whole. We all know what we’re about, and if found out, so would everyone else. It’s disingenuous to insist otherwise.

This site evaluates people against sexual performance…Any lawyer will make the easy case that if money is exchanged during the escorting period and something sexual transpired and is evaluated based on sexual performance on an escorting site, it’s prostitution. So what we do here is participate in something that wants to pretend to be something it’s not officially but unofficially wants to insist upon norms and mores that something it pretends to officially be would require.

[shadeheffashade]

Just don't hire them. I think a lot of escorts are charging higher prices because of the Omicron wave. I know plenty of them were not getting clients between Dec and Feb so now they're trying to make up for it. If our new normal is COVID being endemic with multiple waves a year, it would be best to hire escorts during the peak of that wave(when they're desperate) and then stay away until the next wave comes.

[Kevin Slater]

2 hours ago, Beancounter said:

While it would be advantageous for escorts to report all of their income on Schedule C you may rest assured the VAST majority of escorts report little to none of their cash income on their tax returns.  You are one of a very few who does. 

Have you any evidence to support this, or is it simply assumption? 

2 hours ago, Beancounter said:

If I spend $600 with an escort and ask for his SSN and address so I can provide him with a 1099-MISC, how many escorts would fork over that information?  Precious few.

Unless that $600 were a business (not personal) expense for you, there's no need to file a 1099.  If it were a business expense, first, I'd love to hear more and second, I'm sure he'd gladly provide you that data, just as he would to OnlyFans, etc.

Kevin Slater

[Kevin Slater]

1 hour ago, xyz48B said:

And @Beancounter’s post:

Please don’t insult our collective intelligence and think that “it’s escorting” will hold water in an actual case, with the IRS or the law on the whole. We all know what we’re about, and if found out, so would everyone else. It’s disingenuous to insist otherwise.

This site evaluates people against sexual performance…Any lawyer will make the easy case that if money is exchanged during the escorting period and something sexual transpired and is evaluated based on sexual performance on an escorting site, it’s prostitution. So what we do here is participate in something that wants to pretend to be something it’s not officially but unofficially wants to insist upon norms and mores that something it pretends to officially be would require.

 

2 hours ago, xyz48B said:

If escorting is what is reported on schedule C as the business, then it’s not sex work that’s taxed. It’s escorting. Which, as you say is legal. But sex work is not. Sex work is a euphemism for prostitution.

So…is sex work taxed or is escorting taxed?

Dude, you're getting confused.

The IRS doesn't care about the nature of the earnings, simply that it's reported.  If you reported the ransom you collected from kidnapping, the IRS would have no beef with you. And the underlying job doesn't switch from kidnapping to babysitting just because you declare the income. 

The IRS also is not permitted to reach out to other agencies with your tax data; it would take one of those agencies first coming to the IRS with a court order for them to release you tax data.  So again, all income, regardless of its origin, is required to be reported, and the reporting of said income would not launch any criminal investigation nor change the nature of the work.

Kevin Slater

[Kevin Slater]

Moderator's note:  Again, gentlemen, we do not facilitate nor advocate illegal activities on this site.  Please conduct your conversations accordingly.

[Cruiser7]

5 hours ago, xyz48B said:

Yes. Sadly quality isn’t known at the time of money agreement talk. And like I said somewhere, maybe earlier in this thread, no one is getting a refund for unsatisfactory experience. I would pay more to have the peace of mind knowing that the experience will meet expectations.

This is very important. To me, $400 is a lot to spend, though I don’t fault those for asking for it. After all, if you asked your boss for a 3% raise only to find out later he would’ve given you 6%, but you started low, you’d be pissed at yourself. You won’t get if you don’t ask. 
 

My biggest concern with spending that money is the experience. I’ve been with some terrible escorts, some pretty good ones, and some great ones. I’d gladly pay the great ones this rate, but not the terrible ones, but you don’t know going in what it will be, so I don’t like to take that chance at that price. 
 

Edited March 12, 2022 by Cruiser7
Added add’l info

[guru68]

On the question of taxes, I will only say that I am not an escort and will leave comments/speculation about this question to people who actually are escorts. 

[+ José Soplanucas]

7 hours ago, xyz48B said:

Please don’t insult our collective intelligence and think that “it’s escorting” will hold water in an actual case, with the IRS or the law on the whole.

Please, do not feel entitled to "our collective intelligence" because you are showing none.

7 hours ago, xyz48B said:

This site evaluates people against sexual performance…Any lawyer will make the easy case that if money is exchanged during the escorting period and something sexual transpired and is evaluated based on sexual performance on an escorting site, it’s prostitution. So what we do here is participate in something that wants to pretend to be something it’s not officially but unofficially wants to insist upon norms and mores that something it pretends to officially be would require.

You continue not understanding how wide the meaning of sex work is, how wide and diverse the realities addressed in this website are, and how pretentious you are to preach to sex workers what they do or do not do and what they are or are not.

And even worse, you seem to have unlimited time devoted to post your wisdom. 

[+ Lucky]

It seems odd to see a moderator posting as a regular member in a forum, then turning around with a Moderator warning in that forum. Just saying!

[KeepItReal]

3 minutes ago, Lucky said:

It seems odd to see a moderator posting as a regular member in a forum, then turning around with a Moderator warning in that forum. Just saying!

I guess I am used to wearing multiple hats so it doesn't look odd.  I am still not paying $400 an hour though! 😋

[cany10011]

7 hours ago, Kevin Slater said:

Have you any evidence to support this, or is it simply assumption? 

Unless that $600 were a business (not personal) expense for you, there's no need to file a 1099.  If it were a business expense, first, I'd love to hear more and second, I'm sure he'd gladly provide you that data, just as he would to OnlyFans, etc.

Kevin Slater

I know friends in the “service” industry and they only report a portion to not raise suspicion. Could be anecdotal, but people I know in the restaurant business that rely on cash transactions do not…  i heard of a friend’s masseur in Las Vegas pay for his apartment in cash… but in Las Vegas… so probably not that much. That’s a lot of happy endings. 

Edited March 12, 2022 by cany10011

[pubic_assistance]

53 minutes ago, latbear4blk said:

....you seem to have unlimited time devoted to post your wisdom. 

That one always has has lots of opinions but little wisdom. Isnt it a violation of the discretion policy here to be labeling our escort friends as "prostitutes" ?

[MscleLovr]

14 hours ago, DrownedBoy said:

what would happen to rates if, in the United States, sex work was legalized, regulated, and taxed like any other kind of work?

To my certain knowledge, rates in several countries where sex work is legal (and there’s gay equality) were rather low compared to rates prevailing in the US and Europe. Of course, I have no knowledge of how those rates might have been in the years before sex work was legalized.

My feeling, @DrownedBoy in answer to your question, is that if the US were to legalize sex work, rates would fall due to an influx of newbies and part-timers seeking extra income.

[+ sam.fitzpatrick]

11 hours ago, xyz48B said:

And if they do report it, as some say they do through a business like personal trainer or life coach or whatever, that’s called money laundering. The penalties for money laundering are much graver than for prostitution.

@Kevin Slater– Don’t shit on a plate and tell me it’s a chocolate covered brownie. If what you say is true, there’d be no one worried about VICE operations or the FOSTA-SESTA. We most definitely discuss it. Please don’t be disingenuous.

If escorting is what is reported on schedule C as the business, then it’s not sex work that’s taxed. It’s escorting. Which, as you say is legal. But sex work is not. Sex work is a euphemism for prostitution.

 

All income is taxable whether it is legally earned or earned from illegal activities.  Not reporting legally and illegally earned income on income taxes is tax fraud.

Reporting income on taxes is not money laundering.  Money laundering is the act of taking illegally earned income and masking it as legally earned income to move it through the monetary system such as through bank accounts.

[Beancounter]

9 hours ago, Kevin Slater said:

Have you any evidence to support this, or is it simply assumption? 

Unless that $600 were a business (not personal) expense for you, there's no need to file a 1099.  If it were a business expense, first, I'd love to hear more and second, I'm sure he'd gladly provide you that data, just as he would to OnlyFans, etc.

Kevin Slater

https://www.irs.gov/forms-pubs/about-form-1099-misc