is this the "new normal" attitude?

[xyz48B]

1 hour ago, Rod Hagen said:

xyZ, let me flesh out Slater's argument after an analogy.  

Imagine, on Craigslist, I see four separate, desirable, pairs of tickets to Sparks at Disney Hall.  I may justify messaging all 4 people simultaneously, with some questions, because there are flakes on Craigslist so I'm hedging my bet, one of the ticket sets may be bargained cheaper than the other three, and I'd like to finish this transaction as quickly as possible.

I'm expanding Kevin's argument to state that messaging all four individuals simultaneously is selfish, and we expect/hope you will see why it is. 

In case you don't, here's why.  If I purchase one ticket set, of the 4 available, I very well may hear back from some of the other individuals.  What do I say to that individual, "sorry, you were too slow, other people were able to accommodate my laundry list of wants before you did."  That person had a reasonable expectation that when I inquired about his tickets I was interested in his tickets, not other people's tickets too.  

This really is the difference between how we should interact with individuals in business vs. companies that prioritize, or at least feign to prioritize, our convenience and wants and take the hits when they come.  Respectful business between individuals is a business of mutual consideration.

 

You’re joking, right? You seriously think clients should only message one provider at a time - especially if time is a factor?

I message the four guys providing tickets on Craigslist and one of them gets back to me, I buy the tickets. End of transaction. If the other individual does get back to me, I can politely say that I already purchased tickets from someone else. I don’t see why that’s a problem.

Why this idea of messaging only one provider at a time, especially if time is a factor, breaks down is pretty easy to explain. And with real life examples. I’ve messaged providers who don’t respond for hours, maybe even the next day.

Providers will talk about how many guys they get messages from every day. They presumably deal with those messages while also still doing appointments and booking other appointments. They have multiple clients. Clients also have a host of providers to choose from. When ready to hire, especially if it’s for tonight or sometime when time is an important factor, finding a provider who can see you at that time is important. So messaging multiple providers for a particular timeframe, at the minimum, is fair.

[Jamie21]

29 minutes ago, xyz48B said:

So messaging multiple providers for a particular timeframe, at the minimum, is fair.

Seems fine to me. How would I know if the client has asked other providers unless he tells me, and why should he tell me? If he’s got a specific time he wants and I’m not available or I don’t respond in time that’s no problem to me. I get plenty of enquiries that I can’t do for one reason or another, usually because the client asks last minute. I don’t expect a client to come to me exclusively before checking other guys availability. This is a competitive business; here’s my rate, my availability, my service…if you like it great! If not good luck to you in finding someone else. Just be polite and respectful. 

 

[xyz48B]

7 minutes ago, Jamie21 said:

Just be polite and respectful. 

That’s the crux.

[Rod Hagen]

6 hours ago, xyz48B said:

I message the four guys providing tickets on Craigslist and one of them gets back to me, I buy the tickets. End of transaction. If the other individual does get back to me, I can politely say that I already purchased tickets from someone else. I don’t see why that’s a problem.

 

I don't know man, when I did exactly this for a Sigur Ros concert, messaged multiple people that I was interested in their tickets, and then bought one pair before the others got back to me, I felt like shit, and still do years later, when one of the other people I messaged was hurt that my enquiry wasn't serious, not from his perspective, and so he was shit out of luck.

It would be nice if people were more personable, but I guess if to each individual ticketholder, or escort, you are 100% clear that you're only interested in the fastest-positive response, if that's what's important to you, there's not much else you can do.  Still not sure that's the most "polite and respectful", but it's at the very least honest.

[Jarrod_Uncut]

7 hours ago, Jamie21 said:

Seems fine to me. How would I know if the client has asked other providers unless he tells me, and why should he tell me? If he’s got a specific time he wants and I’m not available or I don’t respond in time that’s no problem to me. I get plenty of enquiries that I can’t do for one reason or another, usually because the client asks last minute. I don’t expect a client to come to me exclusively before checking other guys availability. This is a competitive business; here’s my rate, my availability, my service…if you like it great! If not good luck to you in finding someone else. Just be polite and respectful. 

 

I think the key is: timing. Okay. It’s not about someone reaching out to other providers, it’s the tact behind it. It takes a bit of integrity and patience to be able to understand, but…that’s what’s missing today. 
 

I can’t necessarily say what is “adequate” timing, but if trying to get something accomplished it’s a good idea to just give people time. I know gay male sex often defies all logic and principles and many want it “ASAP”, but there’s a time and a place for that. 

[xyz48B]

It really is acceptable for clients to approach multiple providers. It’s also reasonable for everyone to expect decent, polite interaction whether you’re dealing with multiple clients/providers. They’re not mutually exclusive.

Why is it okay for a provider to ask me if I want to meet tonight because he’s trying to pin down timing with another guy if I can’t do the same with a provider from my perspective? What if I want to see two guys tonight? One right after the other…I may need to coordinate that scheduling. A provider shouldn’t feel that’s inappropriate. That’s my prerogative. 

[Guest]

10 hours ago, xyz48B said:

It really is acceptable for clients to approach multiple providers. It’s also reasonable for everyone to expect decent, polite interaction whether you’re dealing with multiple clients/providers. They’re not mutually exclusive.

Why is it okay for a provider to ask me if I want to meet tonight because he’s trying to pin down timing with another guy if I can’t do the same with a provider from my perspective? What if I want to see two guys tonight? One right after the other…I may need to coordinate that scheduling. A provider shouldn’t feel that’s inappropriate. That’s my prerogative. 

If the vibe's gonna be, always message a bunch of people and take the best option, then don't be surprised if an escort bails on you last second because somebody arrived at his place just before. 

My policy is that if two people ask about the same time slot, I say to the first: please let me know by (insert time) if you'd like to confirm for this time slot, otherwise I'll open it up to other people. 

[xyz48B]

43 minutes ago, DanteV said:

If the vibe's gonna be, always message a bunch of people and take the best option

See…I don’t know what you mean by “best.” What do you mean? Do you mean rate? Do you mean time? Do you willingness to certain things? All those things can and should be factors worth considering. No one needs to be a jerk about it. Business is business. But it’s really simple economics at the end of the day.

I’ve never had an escort tell me he had a better offer. Normally it doesn’t get that far because I don’t agree to a rate unless I’m seriously booking. If I’m asking questions about what he’s willing to do and when he could meet, that may affect my willingness to pay a bit more. (Even though we *know* we’re paying for “time.”) If we discuss money – talk that really kills any vibe – then I’m committed and not making plans with another guy. But before finances are discussed, I don’t think it’s unfair to discuss potentialities with several providers.

 At the end of the day, it’s business. And even in business you shouldn’t be an asshole. When doing projects for work, we solicit RFPs and whoever is deemed the best for our needs gets the job. We still need to inform the other bidders, but we don’t tell them, “Sorry, fuckers! We aren’t using your expensive-ass operation!” We simply say that we decided to go with another service provider. Professional and polite, but definitive. I can’t understand why that doesn’t apply here.

It’s almost like escorts want to run a business until they don’t. This business is a business like any other until the rules of business are disadvantageous to the escort. Then all of a sudden it’s a very different kind of business. When things actually happen, that’s different, but leading up to, there need to be some assumed norms. Approaching things from a normal supply-and-demand angle is fair to everyone.

And for the love all things holy, please just everyone treat everyone with respect. That covers a host of problems…

[+ nycman]

Personally, I don’t contact more than one provider at a time, but I agree it can be frustrating when a provider fails to respond. How long are you supposed to wait? I used to use a 24 hour rule, but experience has taught me that no response in 2-3 hours is pretty indicative that the escort isn’t going to respond at all. I’d say currently I wait about 6 daylight hours before moving on. It’s a little short, but I don’t usually start contacting escorts until 48 hours or so ahead of time. At some point you have to move on, or you risk spending the night alone. 

[Jarrod_Uncut]

On 2/25/2022 at 11:08 AM, DanteV said:

If the vibe's gonna be, always message a bunch of people and take the best option, then don't be surprised if an escort bails on you last second because somebody arrived at his place just before. 

My policy is that if two people ask about the same time slot, I say to the first: please let me know by (insert time) if you'd like to confirm for this time slot, otherwise I'll open it up to other people. 

I’d have to wonder how many people actually do that anyway.

One of my peeves is when someone contacts me, and then can’t recall who they reached out to. There’s been the once in a blue time someone contacted me and expected someone else to show up. That’s why nowadays I really have to make sure they have all the details at time of contact.

[jtwalker]

On 2/19/2022 at 3:34 PM, Kevin Slater said:

When you say you texted four people, did you wait for each thread to play out before texting the next?  If not, this may partially explain this environment...

Kevin Slater

I'll text one guy, wait 10-15 minutes and text another.  I realize 10-15 minutes isn't long enough.  When I use to stick to just texting one guy, I was often let down.  The fact is that many escorts never reply, and when they do, they may already be booked or it may just not be a match.

I'm polite, communicate with everyone, and even let someone know if I've already made other plans.  Following this, I usually find what I'm looking for.  Before, when I tried to be patient, I was often left with a cold shower.

Unless I'm missing something, there really isn't a better option here.  Many of us are just as busy as escorts and have limited availability.

[xyz48B]

1 hour ago, jtwalker said:

I'll text one guy, wait 10-15 minutes and text another.  I realize 10-15 minutes isn't long enough.  When I use to stick to just texting one guy, I was often let down.  The fact is that many escorts never reply, and when they do, they may already be booked or it may just not be a match.

I'm polite, communicate with everyone, and even let someone know if I've already made other plans.  Following this, I usually find what I'm looking for.  Before, when I tried to be patient, I was often left with a cold shower.

Unless I'm missing something, there really isn't a better option here.  Many of us are just as busy as escorts and have limited availability.

This is very reasonable. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. And on top of that, you seem consciously polite. Another thousand points! 

[Lazarus]

How is an escort supposed to know whether or not he is the only person you have contacted at the same time? Ridiculous! 

[xyz48B]

@Lazarus- Some guys, I’m sure, are dumb and/or rude enough to say so…

[pubic_assistance]

On 2/24/2022 at 2:18 PM, Rod Hagen said:

......messaging all four individuals simultaneously is selfish

Even with your explanation, I still don't understand how four concurrent inquiries  are implicitly selfish.

If you booked four and cancelled three....then yes. Of course that's selfish....but not inquiries....that just shopping around, which everyone does.

 

Edited March 2, 2022 by pubic_assistance

[marylander1940]

On 2/19/2022 at 3:21 PM, DrownedBoy said:

I guess I'd ask both providers and clients here if they've noticed this, but I've been getting some _really_ rude responses to my attempts to hire escorts I haven't met before (not to mention prices in excess of 400/500 an hours). Here's some incidents I had contacting several Chicagoland escorts yesterday (I texted them in the early evening, asked if they were available later that night, was completely open about my preferences (no anal), and offered to pay for Uber both ways on an outcall:

- I texted 4 people, 3 of which quoted me at least 400 an hour + Uber (I asked for a 2 hour session, but they didn't adjust their rates accordingly).

- One kid with only 2 RM reviews wanted 900 for 2 hours. He was located right next to me, and I would pay for the Uber. When I declined, he responded with a _completely unsolicited_ counteroffer that was still obscene. His text was worded like: "Oh man, I'll do it for X dollars; I DARE you!" Did he think I'd hire him when he spoke to me like that, even if it was a reasonable offer?

- Then there's the openly blatant con artists. One guy, I was purely willing to hire, but I thought it reasonable to ask him why 3 of his 15 RM reviews were bad. He told me he was insulted by the question. Luckily, he was honest enough to cancel the session before I would have.

 

Right now, I'm only hiring one of my 3 regulars, because when I reach out to "new blood," I get treated ilke this. I'd rather jack off than deal with such rude people.

Is this the new post-pandemic attitude? Obscene rates combined with rudeness? I've been hiring for 8 years, have always been nice to my hires, and have always contacted providers in good faith.

Stick to your regulars if there's chemistry both ways. 

This is not the first time you complained about rudeness by escorts.

Remember most escorts (specially while visiting a new city) are overwhelmed by the number of text messages they receive. Have you tried talking on the phone with them to see how they treat you? Yes I know... some refuse to talk on the phone. 

400 is NOT the new norm but if some ask for it is because clients are willing to hire THEM.

 

Edited March 2, 2022 by marylander1940

[Rod Hagen]

On 2/24/2022 at 10:30 PM, xyz48B said:

3 hours ago, pubic_assistance said:

Even with your explanation, I still don't understand how four concurrent inquiries  are implicitly selfish.

If you booked four and cancelled three....then yes. If course that's selfish....but not inquiries....that just shopping around, which everyone does.

 

Why is it okay for a provider to ask me if I want to meet tonight because he’s trying to pin down timing with another guy if I can’t do the same with a provider from my perspective? What if I want to see two guys tonight? One right after the other…I may need to coordinate that scheduling. A provider shouldn’t feel that’s inappropriate. That’s my prerogative. 

It sounds like I'm alone in this, which is fine :-) , but it feels like negotiating in bad faith to stack the deck.

If men were willing to pay gay escorts the same rates they pay female professional escorts, they wouldn't have to see two clients in a night.  I also understand why FPEs earn more, they take greater risks.

[xyz48B]

14 minutes ago, Rod Hagen said:

If men were willing to pay gay escorts the same rates they pay female professional escorts

 

When I book a guy for a 3-day BFE, I pay him generously. If he has another overnight or two in a month when he books with me, he’ll bring home more than most middle class US-Americans make each month.

From the way that the escorts on here talk, they are so busy and booked that a simple text message reflects a waste of their crazy busy time. So from that, it seems to me, the providers have plenty of business. And should be doing just fine if they’re living within their means.

I’ve had guys quote me $4000+ for a weekend. While those of us who hire probably skew higher than the average earner’s pay, it’s craziness to think that $4000 for a weekend of work is somehow insufficient compensation. Yes – providers deserve to be compensated fairly. But fairly. And sanely. Some providers have an unrealistic expectation of what is sane.

[Rod Hagen]

1 minute ago, xyz48B said:

I’ve had guys quote me $4000+ for a weekend. While those of us who hire probably skew higher than the average earner’s pay, it’s craziness to think that $4000 for a weekend of work is somehow insufficient compensation. Yes – providers deserve to be compensated fairly. But fairly. And sanely. Some providers have an unrealistic expectation of what is sane.

They're asking it, that doesn't mean they're getting it.  :-)

To be clear, I think not answering reasonable emails or texts, for any reason, much less he "can't be bothered" is ridiculous.

I'm sorry to go off on the tangent, I'm just kind of fascinated by the prices professional female escorts ($500+/hour) reportedly command versus us (average $200-MAYBE $300/$350, but still I'm skeptical of that higher number being average).  I guess fascinated really means, envious :-)

[xyz48B]

1 hour ago, Rod Hagen said:

They're asking it, that doesn't mean they're getting it.  🙂

I’m really getting to the point I hate the haggling. If he quotes me a crazy amount to start, I state that’s too much, and he’s a either a) unwilling to come down to a reasonable amount or b) “unable” to come down to a reasonable amount, I’m unwilling and unable to pay and move on. Lost business opportunity for him. I’m getting to the point where even that much negotiation sours the experience for me…

[Jamie21]

I want a Ferrari but I want to pay Toyota price. It’s not fair that the Ferrari dealer expects these prices. No wonder they don’t sell many Ferraris. Their loss I guess.

😉

[Jamie21]

Let me add….before anyone points it out…I don’t consider myself a Ferrari!

[xyz48B]

18 minutes ago, Jamie21 said:

I want a Ferrari but I want to pay Toyota price. It’s not fair that the Ferrari dealer expects these prices. No wonder they don’t sell many Ferraris. Their loss I guess.

😉

If you’re selling a Ford Focus, don’t expect BMW G30 payouts.

[Kevin Slater]

1 hour ago, Jamie21 said:

I want a Ferrari but I want to pay Toyota price. It’s not fair that the Ferrari dealer expects these prices. No wonder they don’t sell many Ferraris. Their loss I guess.

😉

THIS!

Also, I want to go kick the tires on a dozen or so makes and models, and expect each dealership to treat me as if I've purchased a Ferrari there.

Kevin Slater

[Kevin Slater]

Just now, Kevin Slater said:

THIS!

Also, I want to go kick the tires on a dozen or so makes and models, and expect each dealership to treat me as if I've purchased a Ferrari there.

Kevin Slater

...before I board my bus home.

Kevin Slater