is this the "new normal" attitude?

[xyz48B]

9 minutes ago, Kevin Slater said:

THIS!

Also, I want to go kick the tires on a dozen or so makes and models, and expect each dealership to treat me as if I've purchased a Ferrari there.

Kevin Slater

When car shopping…it’s the norm to check out various options.

The car dealership analogy also sort of falls apart a bit too when a salesman keeps trying to make a sale even when you’re browsing. From what I’ve read here, if a potential client even so much as inadvertently makes use of the wrong word in a text exchange, it’s a sign to drop him because he’s “not serious.” Car salesmen will work their butt off to sell you a lemon…as if it’s a Ferrari. 

[Jamie21]

1 hour ago, xyz48B said:

If you’re selling a Ford Focus, don’t expect BMW G30 payouts.

True, but it’s my Ford Focus so I decide what value it has for me. If it has the same value for you, then we have a deal. 

[xyz48B]

2 hours ago, Jamie21 said:

True, but it’s my Ford Focus so I decide what value it has for me. If it has the same value for you, then we have a deal. 

No doubt. But don’t be surprised if you’re selling a Ford and you’re expecting BMW prices if people think you’re off your rocker

It reminds me of my father. He’s always going to yard sales looking for a treasure for a song, but he wants top dollar when he has his own yard sale.

Edited March 1, 2022 by xyz48B

[xyz48B]

To continue the metaphor…

Many of these providers need to consult the Kelly Blue Book to ascertain a true market value. Just because it’s your car doesn’t mean it’s actually worth what you want it to be worth.

To speak plainly…

Many of these providers have delusional ideas about what their time is worth. Does that mean there aren’t guys out there just as delusional who will pay? No. By no means. But it’s still delusional.

And for what it’s worth, @Jamie21, you seem reasonable. I’m not saying you are unreasonable, but there are far too many escorts who act like they’re doing clients a favor by taking our money. Not sharing time. Not having sex. Not doing any of that. Taking our money. They act entitled to it because they are who they are and nothing more. That’s what rubs me wrong. You’re an escort. There are doctors. There are teachers. There are garbagemen. We all have something that makes us important. But you aren’t entitled to my money or my deference because you’re hot and oodles of guys want to fuck you. You aren’t entitled to anything from me anymore than I’m entitled to anything from you.

The way that the conversation goes here, it seems, often is that clients are the ones with all these unreasonable expectations as if providers are wholly innocent of any kind of entitlement. It’s just not the case. The marketplace really sucks for everyone, but instead of agreeing on that, it’s fingerpointing and ‘splaining all over the place.

I get tired of guys saying “no hangups” but then I read here all the things I suspect providers actually think but would never say to me. Like, don’t tell me your biggest priority is making me happy. Because what I read here is making the most amount of money and making sure the provider’s time isn’t wasted. Something is misaligned here, and I’m going to bet what I see here is more reflective of actual feelings than what some RM ad says trying to convince a horny guy to hand over the cash…

Hate me for that feeling if you want, but I don’t think providers first and foremost care about my happiness. They care about their wallets. At least clients can be assumed to want two things: 1) to get fucked for 2) the cheapest cost possible. 

Edited March 1, 2022 by xyz48B

[Rod Hagen]

10 hours ago, xyz48B said:

I’m really getting to the point I hate the haggling.

I agree, haggling sucks.  Pick a price and stick to it.

Edited March 1, 2022 by Rod Hagen

[Jamie21]

3 hours ago, xyz48B said:

Hate me for that feeling if you want, but I don’t think providers first and foremost care about my happiness. They care about their wallets.

Why hate you for that? It’s correct. I’m doing it for the money (presumably that’s why you do your job too, or do you voluntarily take a pay cut if your boss thinks you weren’t up to his expectations last week?). I set my rate and I’m not reducing it because someone can’t afford it.

The market works very well (it’s almost perfect, there’s very little government regulation, no monopolies, no cartels, clear information) and providers can join it quite easily so I’d say the prices nicely reflect the supply and demand. Browse your providers and pay his rate if it’s what you want. If it’s out of your price range then you’re in the wrong shop. 

OK so I enjoy the work and so I hope that comes across as I do it, and I want repeat business so I make sure my clients have a great time (and that I’m easy to book and polite to deal with when doing so - that’s just plain courtesy and should work both ways), …..but ask yourself the question: would the meeting happen if you weren’t paying?  Perhaps it might, perhaps it might not but we really don’t want to contemplate that too hard because it’s going to let daylight in upon magic. 

[xyz48B]

4 hours ago, Jamie21 said:

but ask yourself the question: would the meeting happen if you weren’t paying?  Perhaps it might, perhaps it might not but we really don’t want to contemplate that too hard because it’s going to let daylight in upon magic. 

That’s really the point I was trying to make with a lot of words. The meeting 100% wouldn’t be happening if I weren’t paying.

I’ve escorts, two actually, tell me they consider me a friends. Friends don’t fuck friends for money. I’ve learned that. 

[xyz48B]

5 hours ago, Rod Hagen said:

I agree, haggling sucks.  Pick a price and stick to it.

If you’ll take $1200/night, say so and don’t budge from it. Same way if you’re willing to pay $2000/night.

[mike carey]

2 hours ago, xyz48B said:

I’ve escorts, two actually, tell me they consider me a friends. Friends don’t fuck friends for money. I’ve learned that. 

I disagree. It is possible for the two relationships to exist simultaneously. I have read people in here recount friendships with escorts enduring when the escort retired. I have friendships with escorts with whom I have discussed hiring (and not done so yet) and others where I have had social interactions and even travelled with, where we have kept the sexual part of our interactions professional without compromising the friendship. Not all escorts are open to that, but don't discount the idea that some may be.

If I had a mate who was a lawyer or a plumber, would I engage them professionally without expecting free or discounted service? Of course I would.

[Rod Hagen]

6 hours ago, xyz48B said:

That’s really the point I was trying to make with a lot of words. The meeting 100% wouldn’t be happening if I weren’t paying.

I’ve escorts, two actually, tell me they consider me a friends. Friends don’t fuck friends for money. I’ve learned that. 

Are you saying they cannot be your friend because they charge you for professional services, which Mike Carey showed, with examples of Lawyers and Plumbers, is complete hogwash (Way to go Mike!), or are you saying that due to the nature of the professional work Es provide, you find their expressions of friendship suspect?

[DapperGent]

On 2/19/2022 at 3:21 PM, DrownedBoy said:

I guess I'd ask both providers and clients here if they've noticed this, but I've been getting some _really_ rude responses to my attempts to hire escorts I haven't met before (not to mention prices in excess of 400/500 an hours). Here's some incidents I had contacting several Chicagoland escorts yesterday (I texted them in the early evening, asked if they were available later that night, was completely open about my preferences (no anal), and offered to pay for Uber both ways on an outcall:

- I texted 4 people, 3 of which quoted me at least 400 an hour + Uber (I asked for a 2 hour session, but they didn't adjust their rates accordingly).

- One kid with only 2 RM reviews wanted 900 for 2 hours. He was located right next to me, and I would pay for the Uber. When I declined, he responded with a _completely unsolicited_ counteroffer that was still obscene. His text was worded like: "Oh man, I'll do it for X dollars; I DARE you!" Did he think I'd hire him when he spoke to me like that, even if it was a reasonable offer?

- Then there's the openly blatant con artists. One guy, I was purely willing to hire, but I thought it reasonable to ask him why 3 of his 15 RM reviews were bad. He told me he was insulted by the question. Luckily, he was honest enough to cancel the session before I would have.

 

Right now, I'm only hiring one of my 3 regulars, because when I reach out to "new blood," I get treated ilke this. I'd rather jack off than deal with such rude people.

Is this the new post-pandemic attitude? Obscene rates combined with rudeness? I've been hiring for 8 years, have always been nice to my hires, and have always contacted providers in good faith.

This is a business of pleasure, no one here is hiring a contractor to do your bathroom tiles and your choice is mainly motivated by frugality. In the service industry, a provider can charge whatever they want because that’s their value. If they are or not willing to negotiate their value, or if is justified or not, it is take it or leave it choice and act like a victim among mature men and young service providers is not getting you any sympathies.

[maninsoma]

5 hours ago, mike carey said:

I disagree. It is possible for the two relationships to exist simultaneously. I have read people in here recount friendships with escorts enduring when the escort retired. I have friendships with escorts with whom I have discussed hiring (and not done so yet) and others where I have had social interactions and even travelled with, where we have kept the sexual part of our interactions professional without compromising the friendship. Not all escorts are open to that, but don't discount the idea that some may be.

If I had a mate who was a lawyer or a plumber, would I engage them professionally without expecting free or discounted service? Of course I would.

The main difference between developing a friendship with an escort versus another type of service provider is that one is unlikely to get to know much about another type of service provider while he is providing the service, so there isn't much opportunity for a friendship to develop.  Assuming both parties are open to it, it makes sense to me that escorts and clients would sometimes develop friendships as they got to know one other because getting to know one another is frequently part of the client/escort transaction.   I've only ever developed a friendship with one escort, but we had both our time on-the-clock and off-the-clock.  I paid my regular rate for the former and money didn't exchange hands for the latter.  Sometimes I hired him for an overnight.  Other times we went out to eat or to a movie and would informally trade turns as to who paid.  I would have never expected sex to become part of those meetings, though.

[xyz48B]

14 hours ago, Jamie21 said:

or do you voluntarily take a pay cut

I am “the boss,” so…

And I was the one who proposed to the board four years ago that I take a 40% salary cut to keep the company solvent. I have the best job in the world (for me) and have been and would be paid less than my education level and experience level should dictate because I love my job so much. So to talk about doing work just for the pay, for me, is a tad foreign. I understand there are folks out there who do that, and that I’m fortunate that I have a job like this, but it’s really 100% true.

There’s a difference between an occupation and a vocation. I believe I am paid, fortunately, to live my vocation.

[xyz48B]

7 hours ago, mike carey said:

I disagree. It is possible for the two relationships to exist simultaneously. I have read people in here recount friendships with escorts enduring when the escort retired. I have friendships with escorts with whom I have discussed hiring (and not done so yet) and others where I have had social interactions and even travelled with, where we have kept the sexual part of our interactions professional without compromising the friendship. Not all escorts are open to that, but don't discount the idea that some may be.

If I had a mate who was a lawyer or a plumber, would I engage them professionally without expecting free or discounted service? Of course I would.

I knew this example would come up.

You would pay them. Would they demand it? There’s a difference. Maybe they would. I’ve always offered my professional services to friends free of charge. But folks who aren’t friends get my bill…and I follow up. That doesn’t mean if a friend offers me something for my professional service I don’t take it. I do. But I don’t ask or expect it. For a friend.

With the escorts who wanted me to know they were friends, all I can say is as long as money and gifts flowed their way, they were tangentially attentive “off the clock,” and when we were together they were very…assuming. Both of these so-called “friends” who are escorts went MIA after sharing with them that my mother died of COVID and that’s why my communication and attention to them had suffered. So…friends? Meh. No. They manipulated my feelings and I was duped.

Admit it. Learn from it. Don’t repeat it. 

[Jamie21]

6 minutes ago, xyz48B said:

I am “the boss,” so…

And I was the one who proposed to the board four years ago that I take a 40% salary cut to keep the company solvent. I have the best job in the world (for me) and have been and would be paid less than my education level and experience level should dictate because I love my job so much. So to talk about doing work just for the pay, for me, is a tad foreign. I understand there are folks out there who do that, and that I’m fortunate that I have a job like this, but it’s really 100% true.

There’s a difference between an occupation and a vocation. I believe I am paid, fortunately, to live my vocation.

Although if you have a board, there’s probably a Remco that decides your pay rather than it being exclusively your decision. You do make my point however…I’m the boss in my situation and I decide my pay (my rate), just like you do. Therefore I don’t discount because that’s then someone else deciding my rate. I could afford to do it for less, I’m in the fortunate financial position….but why should I reduce my rate just because some people can’t or won’t pay it? 

[TT3690]

I have to agree with the OP somewhat- haven't hired a new guy in months because of rates spiking and communication with inquiries being a combination of unresponsive and curt. It just feels like a lot of work in order to spend money and I'd rather just see my regular every week.

[jtwalker]

On 2/28/2022 at 3:20 PM, Jamie21 said:

Let me add….before anyone points it out…I don’t consider myself a Ferrari!

I don’t know, you seem like a Ferrari to me, because I think attitude is what makes Ferraris in this game. You have a great attitude.

Every time I’ve paid for a Ferrari, I’ve gotten a pinto.  For whatever reason, the Ferraris in this game seem to follow market rate.

literally the best drive I ever had was such a bargain I had to throw in a big tip or I would’ve felt like I stole the car.

This business is like none other.

[Rod Hagen]

3 hours ago, xyz48B said:

You would pay them. Would they demand it? There’s a difference. Maybe they would. I’ve always offered my professional services to friends free of charge. But folks who aren’t friends get my bill…and I follow up. That doesn’t mean if a friend offers me something for my professional service I don’t take it. I do. But I don’t ask or expect it. For a friend.

 

to me it sounds as if 1. you have money, which is great.  2. a friend hasn't taken advantage of your willingness to work for friends for free, which is also great. 

many professionals are not in a financial position to offer services or goods to friends for free, or even a discount.  also, many professionals are more guarded than you explain yourself to be.  that's not a fault.

Edited March 2, 2022 by Rod Hagen

[marylander1940]

On 2/28/2022 at 3:16 PM, Jamie21 said:

I want a Ferrari but I want to pay Toyota price. It’s not fair that the Ferrari dealer expects these prices. No wonder they don’t sell many Ferraris. Their loss I guess.

😉

As much as I understand your point not everyone wants a Ferrari (Instagram model), besides not all guys can achieve the BFE @xyz48B likes during his weekends. Chemistry is like fetch, some can't reach it. 

[xyz48B]

2 hours ago, Rod Hagen said:

to me it sounds as if 1. you have money, which is great.  2. a friend hasn't taken advantage of your willingness to work for friends for free, which is also great. 

many professionals are not in a financial position to offer services or goods to friends for free, or even a discount.  also, many professionals are more guarded than you explain yourself to be.  that's not a fault.

I also don’t immediately consider someone a friend that I owe something. When you’re my friend, I owe you my devotion. And that means some sacrifice. Friendship doesn’t mean much otherwise…*
 

*For me

[xyz48B]

5 hours ago, Jamie21 said:

why should I reduce my rate just because some people can’t or won’t pay it? 

The “friends” question comes into play here.

[Alex93108]

On 2/20/2022 at 10:35 AM, cany10011 said:

I once made 6 queries for a worktrip and everyone responded…and, as I hate to turn anyone down,  I squeezed all 6 hot guys over a 4 day worktrip at the Ritz Carlton Marina del Rey. One guy even came at 6 in the morning with coffee before my work meeting to accomodate me.  So, yes it is a chore sometimes… to schedule so many guys within a constrained time frame. 

I’d love to have this problem 

[Alex93108]

Thankfully rates outside the US (  mostly UK/EU ) have remained largely steady  . I also don’t tip outside the US ( following local custom) . With covid over in the UK a lot of people are back - supply has gone up 

So if someone asks for 900 for two hours , that’s a hard no for me. 

 

Edited March 2, 2022 by jetlow

[xyz48B]

I find it interesting that GB is so different, in more ways than one!

[Jamie21]

3 hours ago, xyz48B said:

The “friends” question comes into play here.

That’s a difficult one. Clients make a few visits, the sessions go well, we chat and get to know each other. Some then consider themselves ‘friends’. But I don’t, it’s work, they’re a client. I’m glad we get on well (that’s kind of the idea anyway….it’s not just sexual) but they’re definitely not a friend. 

Only one client of mine has become a friend and once that happened I stopped charging him and he stopped booking. Now we are friends, we do different things together as well as sexual things but he’s not a client. No money changes hands.

As soon as you start to give discounts to ‘friend’ clients things become difficult. Who is a ‘friend’? What’s the criteria? What if they talk and discover one has a preferential rate? When I started doing this I was given advice by a friend who was a successful sex worker: he said to never discount. Set your rate and stick to it. Once you start discounting, for anyone, it’s a slippery slope. It’s excellent advice.