Covid Vaccine Boosters are Here to Stay

[Guest]

14 hours ago, BSR said:

I've heard that the booster shot is exactly the same as the first two shots.  Are they planning to modify it to deal with the delta variant, or is that not necessary?  The flu vaccine changes every year.  At some point, I have to think that they'll change the Covid vaccine as well.

So far not necessary. But the manufacturers are tweaking their vaccines. It won't be long before it will be necessary to show immunity before boarding any plane or crossing any international border. I got my 3rd dose just over a week ago, which I thought wise since I'm about to travel to Switzerland, and my first dose was over 8 months ago. 

[Guest]

On 8/22/2021 at 5:49 PM, jeezifonly said:

...Is the ongoing treatment for COVID more profitable for Pharma than the preventative inoculations?
 

Would that profit motive have any benefits directly or indirectly to Public Health policy makers ?...

No. There's almost no profit in Covid-19 treatment for pharma (essentially only 2 approved meds, for certain situations), and other patients have been avoiding care due to the overwhelming of our healthcare system by Covid patients. And public health officials would have to disclose any financial interest, including stock ownership, they have in any pharma company. 

[jeezifonly]

On 8/24/2021 at 9:23 PM, Unicorn said:

No. There's almost no profit in Covid-19 treatment for pharma (essentially only 2 approved meds, for certain situations), and other patients have been avoiding care due to the overwhelming of our healthcare system by Covid patients. And public health officials would have to disclose any financial interest, including stock ownership, they have in any pharma company. 

Well, that’s a relief. We can always depend on honesty from politicians about personal finances and conflicts of interest! Do their big donors have to be as forthcoming? Nothing in recent history would suggest that politicians will look the other way as people suffer and/or die, right?
I’m sure it’s all good…

Moderator’s Note: Lets keep politics out of the Lounge. 

[lonely_john]

40 minutes ago, tassojunior said:

taking 10 boosters still better than dying even with minor side effects 😉

 

[samhexum]

just got my booster & flu shots

[samhexum]

I decided to do it today, because I’d seen the weather forecast on Monday that said today would have a high of 65, so I knew it would be shorts weather, and it was. (50 degrees and a light breeze when I left the house). Otherwise, I would have been shvitzing wearing sweatpants & a jacket. Oddly, most people I saw were wearing jackets or coats. I guess it takes all kinds…

[liubit]

Got my Pfizer booster shot yesterday and, besides minor discomfort in the injected arm, I feel perfectly fine.  

[Cooper]

Received my booster a few days ago and, like others mentioned, only reaction was  a soreness in the arm. Unlike my 1st two shots there were  no lines or waiting this time. In NYC anyone over 18 is eligible. I don’t know if that’s the same requirement  in other areas.

Here in NYC, in order to enter a restaurant, bar, show, etc you have to wear a mask, show proof of covid shot, and your drivers license or other ID. 

I found it very odd when I was at the Bryant Park outdoor skating rink to see skaters being required to wear masks.

[rvwnsd]

14 hours ago, Cooper said:

Received my booster a few days ago and, like others mentioned, only reaction was  a soreness in the arm.

Same with me. I cleared my schedule, anticipating the same reaction I had for my first two shots (dead-to-the-world tired for three days) and all I had was a slightly sore arm that wasn't as bad as the one I had with my shingles shot.

14 hours ago, Cooper said:

Unlike my 1st two shots there were  no lines or waiting this time. In NYC anyone over 18 is eligible. I don’t know if that’s the same requirement  in other areas.

Safeway asked me to make an appointment so I could complete the paperwork online, which was far better than filling out a paper form. People under 65 need to have an underlying medical condition to get one there, but having asthma I was able to get the shot. It was more convenient to get it at Safeway than it was anywhere else, plus they have little offices where they administer the shot. Much better than getting it out in the open, like at CVS. I don't believe the Arizona Department of Public Health has any restrictions, though. 

14 hours ago, Cooper said:

...I found it very odd when I was at the Bryant Park outdoor skating rink to see skaters being required to wear masks.

Here in Phoenix, the Desert Botanical Garden requires advance reservations and mask-wearing. The place is entirely outdoors! It isn't like they get super-crowded and, like I said, it is outdoors.  

 

[jeezifonly]

There are cities in Europe closing down again.

Good thing there’s no form of mass transportation to cross the Atlantic that could bring new infections to US!

[rvwnsd]

Ya know, we get flu shots every year. That's a form of a booster. 

[BSR]

3 hours ago, rvwnsd said:

Same with me. I cleared my schedule, anticipating the same reaction I had for my first two shots (dead-to-the-world tired for three days) and all I had was a slightly sore arm that wasn't as bad as the one I had with my shingles shot.

Your case sounds similar to mine.  After both of my Moderna shots, I suffered chills and horrible body aches that knocked me flat on my back for 2 days.  While I was committed to getting the booster, I was dreading it like an IRS audit.  My 3rd shot was Pfizer because that was the only one my local Walgreens had in stock.  Fortunately, my reaction to the Pfizer shot was mild, just a little out of it that day.  But after sleeping for 10 hours, I was dandy as candy.  If boosters are going to be necessary every 6 months, fine by me.  I'll just make it a point to find a place that offers Pfizer.

You can't imagine how relieved I was that my system could handle the Pfizer shot.  I honestly don't know how many more Moderna shots I could handle.

[lonely_john]

5 hours ago, BSR said:

Your case sounds similar to mine.  After both of my Moderna shots, I suffered chills and horrible body aches that knocked me flat on my back for 2 days.  While I was committed to getting the booster, I was dreading it like an IRS audit.  My 3rd shot was Pfizer because that was the only one my local Walgreens had in stock.  Fortunately, my reaction to the Pfizer shot was mild, just a little out of it that day.  But after sleeping for 10 hours, I was dandy as candy.  If boosters are going to be necessary every 6 months, fine by me.  I'll just make it a point to find a place that offers Pfizer.

You can't imagine how relieved I was that my system could handle the Pfizer shot.  I honestly don't know how many more Moderna shots I could handle.

Moderna shots were famous in Canada for having the most (unpleasant) side effects.

[HotWhiteThirties]

5 hours ago, BSR said:

Your case sounds similar to mine.  After both of my Moderna shots, I suffered chills and horrible body aches that knocked me flat on my back for 2 days.  While I was committed to getting the booster, I was dreading it like an IRS audit.  My 3rd shot was Pfizer because that was the only one my local Walgreens had in stock.  Fortunately, my reaction to the Pfizer shot was mild, just a little out of it that day.  But after sleeping for 10 hours, I was dandy as candy.  If boosters are going to be necessary every 6 months, fine by me.  I'll just make it a point to find a place that offers Pfizer.

You can't imagine how relieved I was that my system could handle the Pfizer shot.  I honestly don't know how many more Moderna shots I could handle.

My original shots were both Pfizer. I had no reaction on the first, a strong reaction on the second that was awful and lasted about 18 hours with fever, aches, and chills and around 36 hours of "brain fog," for lack of a better term. I am considering which booster to get - Pfizer or Moderna. Someone suggested getting J&J as it works differently than the others??? 🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️ Need to talk with a few physicians and medical folks to determine. Also, can't get a straight answer on if I am eligible for a booster. Admittedly, I haven't worried about it too much yet due to age and because I had been following the initial recommendation to wait until 8 mos to seek out a booster. Not sure if that still holds. The messaging about all of this is not consistent. 

I am like you, though. Dreading a reaction like I had on the second shot! It was awful. 

[Rudynate]

The reaction was less with each shot. After the first:  headache, fever, and intense fatigue for about five days.  Second shot:  headache and fatigue for several days.   Third shot:  sore arm and tired for day of shot.

[marylander1940]

[+ Charlie]

Spouse and I had Pfizer for all three shots, and had little reaction to any of them beyond a slightly sore arm. It almost made me wish I had more reaction, to know that it was the real thing.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, HotWhiteThirties said:

My original shots were both Pfizer. I had no reaction on the first, a strong reaction on the second that was awful and lasted about 18 hours with fever, aches, and chills and around 36 hours of "brain fog," for lack of a better term. I am considering which booster to get - Pfizer or Moderna. Someone suggested getting J&J as it works differently than the others??? 🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️ Need to talk with a few physicians and medical folks to determine. Also, can't get a straight answer on if I am eligible for a booster. Admittedly, I haven't worried about it too much yet due to age and because I had been following the initial recommendation to wait until 8 mos to seek out a booster. Not sure if that still holds. The messaging about all of this is not consistent. 

I am like you, though. Dreading a reaction like I had on the second shot! It was awful. 

There is no real science behind this, of course, but the Pfizer and Moderna are more similar to each other than they are to the J&J, so I'd pick the J&J if I were you. 

[HotWhiteThirties]

3 minutes ago, Unicorn said:

There is no real science behind this, of course, but the Pfizer and Moderna are more similar to each other than they are to the J&J, so I'd pick the J&J if I were you. 

This is what I have been told by several people in the medical field, but it did seem anecdotal, although it does make logical sense. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, HotWhiteThirties said:

This is what I have been told by several people in the medical field, but it did seem anecdotal, although it does make logical sense. 

Not so much anecdotal as it is deductive, but one would call this a "scientific guess." 

[mike carey]

It's a reasonable hypothesis, and one which I have heard immunologists cite, that a different class of vaccine stimulates the immune system differently so having a different booster to the original course of vaccine could provide a complementary effect.

Separately there is a school of thought that the existing vaccines should have been released as three dose vaccines. With more time clinical trials could have been conducted to determine whether two or three doses was better. Instead we are conducting observational experiments to see how immunity persists after third doses of like and unlike vaccines. I'll eventually be part of the 'unlike' cohort, AZ and BioNTech/Pfizer.

[eRutt]

My initial shot was Janssen/J&J so I went with Moderna for the booster two days ago. My arm is a little sore this morning but no other reaction. When I got the first shot I was a bit out of sorts for one evening, watched a movie and went to bed early. There was quite a crowd of people getting either their first shots or a booster.

[NJF]

J&J vaccine causes more problems in “younger” people (blood clots) so if you are under 65, the two mRNA vaccines (Pfizer and Moderna) are safer choice either as the initial shots or boosters.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, mike carey said:

It's a reasonable hypothesis, and one which I have heard immunologists cite, that a different class of vaccine stimulates the immune system differently so having a different booster to the original course of vaccine could provide a complementary effect.

Separately there is a school of thought that the existing vaccines should have been released as three dose vaccines. With more time clinical trials could have been conducted to determine whether two or three doses was better. Instead we are conducting observational experiments to see how immunity persists after third doses of like and unlike vaccines. I'll eventually be part of the 'unlike' cohort, AZ and BioNTech/Pfizer.

Scientific studies are only designed to answer the question they're designed to answer. The studies which got the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines had the following question: "How well do the vaccines protect for 4 months after the 2nd dose?". The answer was 94-95%. As you said, everything else is observation. I question whether mixed vaccine studies will be done. If so, it's hard to imagine it will be done from Pharma $$, though governments could fund such studies. However, @HotWhiteThirtieshad an unusually sever reaction to the mRNA vaccines, so the best bet is to go with a vaccine booster that's as dissimilar as possible. 

I personally didn't get much but a sore deltoid from each Pfizer shot, so I went for a 3rd, in the theory that I'm not starting a whole new set of memory cells, but rather stimulating ones already present. It's important to note, however, that just because something makes sense logically, doesn't mean it's true when applied to actual people. Only science can tell us that. And maybe 3 shots is all we'll ever need. There are certainly precedents for that (Hepatitis B, HPV). If one didn't have a bad reaction to the first 2 shots, my suggestion is to stick to the same one, but I can't make a hard-fast statement that this is the best way to go. No one really knows. 

The virus responsible for Covid-19 was so contagious and virulent that we needed studies which determined what was going to protect us now. The anti-vaxxer sentiments have been without historical precedent, and I don't think most public health officials anticipated such a large percentage of anti-vaxxers (especially among US Republicans). It's really mucking things up for the entire planet. 

Edited November 21, 2021 by Unicorn

[mike carey]

Quite so, @Unicorn, and not much chance of a pharma-funded study. More likely a country (or sub-national jurisdiction like a state/province or city) with a robust system of health data collection will track immunity levels over time after boosters are administered and use the results to inform decisions on which vaccines to use and for whom. For example, Israeli data is currently informing much of the decision process on boosters.