DWnyc

I agree with many of your points here but not this. Clients also bear significant risks of physical security, reputational damage, extortion etc Lack of respect and much of that being stigma based is certainly true. But it’s two way. Some providers (not all) likely view clients not as peers in a transaction but as pathetic, outcasts etc who have no option than to meet with them for what they perhaps think comes easy to them. And this is behind what I think is sometimes bizarre behavior against their own self interest (long term / strategic / revenue maximizing). And a provider who is already public somewhat doesn’t have anonymity to lose whereas a client does. The long list of potential attempts to gain leverage over clients - though requiring eg photos, “real” phone numbers, electronic trail for deposits and payment all have benign explanations. But also many not so harmless ones as well. And again, we’re talking about some providers, not all.

Those in the hobby that we discuss here aren’t victims, they participate voluntarily. This is not child or female trafficking etc. Whatever might be unrealistic about clients’ expectations is made real by providers who can fulfill those or at least try to, and they are compensated at mutually agreed rates. If providers want to work less (including in sales efforts) and still get the same rates or more … or if clients want to pay less and get the same service or more … either side has the freedom to walk away. Simple as that.

I don’t think I waste new providers’ time with unnecessary back and forth but maybe some do. However, if I have to pay for the privilege of working out if I should pay him that alone would rule them out for me. At what point can we acknowledge there is a time and effective cost in making a potential sale which may or not come through?

I think the subject of the thread isn’t worded quite right. Don’t waste your wishes on telling clients how you feel, you can do that any time. But wishing that they agree with you doesn’t seem very likely.

I mean this in all seriousness, if this is the case why are so many providers so difficult and confrontational to the point where they are likely turning bookings away, and why do some go out of their way to emphasize they have more business than they can handle / don’t need the money etc

I’m pretty sure I’ve seen that on rentmasseur and other similar sites for massage Thats the key sign that these guys are open to more than a medical massage on a particular site

Out of curiosity (seriously) what is this consultation fee I’ve often seen mentioned here? Is this the back and forth on determining whether there’s a fit to justify a booking?

Really? We’re going to revive these conversations even though most on this forum - otherwise fine to discuss fetishes in gory detail - find them so excruciatingly uncomfortable😊?

I find the #1 reason providers are interested in any RM profile I may have is they want me to leave a review so curious if it’s paid or not The providers who do actually care about meeting specific needs or requests will ask or be very attentive during the session. The ones who don’t care about that stuff wouldn’t be swayed by anything I might put in a profile.

Are we saying we can tell if we will be safe with someone looking at their photo, or are we saying we need evidence in case of a future situation - or leverage for something more sinister?

They know that will make them look like an asshole to those who would make the cut for them on their criteria, but who are also good people. Have met several providers who say something like “open to all races / ages / body types etc” on their profile but have said to me (and I’m sure put in practice) that there’s no way they would engage with XYZ demographic … no different from people virtue signaling in online dating profiles saying similar things but in practice having clear boundaries based on such criteria. Which is fine hypocrisy aside .. but … if you’re a provider, don’t expect the professional respect you say you crave if that’s the way you visibly operate based on documented behavior.

How can a provider tell if a client is “dirty, smelly or rude” from a picture?

Participating in the hobby as either a provider or a client continues to get easier because of technology. Very different today from my memories from when I first dabbled … taking down numbers from magazines procured from shops in sketchy parts of town; using pay phones so as to remain anonymous, invariably connecting to answering machines so providers I called couldn’t reach me even if I wanted them to, as I wouldn’t leave the only number I had and shared with roommates. And on the rare occasion I got someone live, realizing I didn’t have enough change for the call … Now you can be up on a site in minutes, or surf the web in less than that if looking. and I think some young kids see it as just another potential gig to try their luck at. However … The same holds true for it getting easier to meet men for free (technology makes it easier) together with more social acceptance in much of the country / world. So that can dilute some of the factors that might have otherwise just led to an increase in providers (and client interactions).

My favorite excuses from providers who stood me up over the years (yes it happens that way too) - 1. was delayed on set for my only fans Channel, was naked and didn’t have my phone nearby 2. was high and lost track of time but thinking about you the whole time 3. got intimidated by the thought of meeting you because you sounded so awesome on the phone .., 4. I had a chat with my bf right before you were supposed to come and we agreed to be exclusive

I’ve arranged Ubers for others (different situation) with my account and no personal info revealed, where I’ve been on conference calls when they can’t find each other or just multiple calls once you explain the situation to the driver and apart from that it’s been fine. Used to do it for an elderly relative in another country for her hospital appointments - mainly as she couldn’t use the app. Only drawback being I couldn’t use the Uber or Lyft myself until her ride was over. Conversely I’ve had providers (and hookups) send me links to track their own Uber rides from their accounts (I assume out of courtesy and for reassurance that they’re really on their way) but which im nervous of because I suspect that links my account with theirs (like a “Facebook friend”)

I’ve prepaid providers for others a few times (eg for a now-deceased sick friend), - always with regular providers where I was able to discuss the situation and their comfort. I gave them donations beforehand and set parameters for my friends which I asked them to enforce if there was a misunderstanding. These mostly went well - one provider explained the friend didn't seem to understand it was an engagement and had to be almost thrown out - I guess that can happen if you’re not the one handing over the donation. Another provider told me I was overthinking it, let events take their course when the two meet. One friend got nervous and left well before the session ended; I reassured the provider he could keep the donation. Unless the provider is screening for any specific things where the 3rd person would not qualify there shouldn’t be an issue if donations are taken care of. Enabled me To do something nice for providers as lt would Be more than what they’d get from me otherwise.

You have the right attitude as in it would be a waste of money thrown at someone who doesn’t deserve it, though it sucks that such providers compete alongside the more professional ones For the providers who do actually request a pic for legitimate (to them) reasons I really don’t understand why they don’t get the sensitivity. And this also affects people on the older side, of different body types, physical abilities etc - totally sucks

Can’t believe people are throwing around accusations of paranoia when we are talking of a hobby that is in the US illegal and in most geographies riddled with stigma. Most points I have on this have been made. I’ll just add that with AI and image recognition software easily available, a picture can enable anyone to gather all sorts of information on the subject in a matter of minutes or less. It’s highly likely the provider will have that by the end of the session anyway through understandable security measures. But regardless, if some are fine providing pictures let them, and let the providers insist on it let the self selection allow for us all - clients and providers - to stick within our comfort zones.

I fully agree. I think the biggest obstacle to anything other than a provider-client relationship would be having to start from almost zero on “ normal” tjings despite feeling very close in others. And much of that supposed closeness is likely one sided and based on an act. And I suspect there would be a world of difference between many providers and clients in their social / economic status that would for starters complicate much interaction that went beyond 1-on-1.

Montreal and Quebec in general have some of the most pro tenant laws in North America, so it’s difficult for landlords to clear out tenants even if they are delinquent in rent. Some of the clubs (straight and cabaret as well) in Montreal occupy prime downtown real estate but tenants are paying rents locked in 20-30 years ago. So there are allegations …

Anyone playing should know their status and given what’s available to us now, after stopping to say a word of thanks to all who made this possible for us, if they want to play raw, should either be on PREP or ART to stay undetectable. That way someone else’s status matters less. Given how many DL men visit providers and that PREP use let alone status awareness through regular testing is so low in this segment, I can see why a provider disclosing status and medication accurately is important for some clients. It is still ridiculous - they shouldn’t be risking their health (and that of others in their life) because of their fear of discovery and they should not be relying on a providers self declaration for peace of mind. I know of several providers who are not truthful on prep use as well as on their actual status. They have always somehow volunteered the information including with a different profile on hookup sites. I understand (and some have shared) some of their reasoning but I think it’s better to leave out a known misrepresentation rather than to lie on something that is still a relevant issue for many (even though it shouldn’t be given what is available). And to be clear this isn’t just about providers it’s about anyone including on hookup sites.

Because many providers do actually like to negotiate or vary their pricing (despite how many posture on here) depending on their dealflow, and because many won’t want to leave a public written trail particularly in problematic jurisdictions.

A regular provider I saw shortly before Christmas dropped hints about joining my plans when it came up - eg important time for him but he’d be alone far away from anyone, I was one of few clients he considered a friend (this startled me a little). I thought about it all through our session (and it was distracting!) and I realized a “friend” would be welcome at my Christmas dinner table, and I would want them to be themselves when off the clock (and not give them a list of things not to say or lie about). I wasn’t sure I could deal with that in the presence of my friends and family members. That year I had a colleague from work join with a similar situation of being far from family and they weren’t actually a close friend but it felt natural in a way the provider attending didn’t. But each to their own - others may have dealt with this differently.

And of course if he wants to take a break from doing this temporarily or permanently he may not want to keep the appointment anyway

If he knew his profile was expiring )it may have been planned) will likely have kept your details