DWnyc

No because there will be enough people including in this forum validating the ask saying it’s a providers right etc

Or staying put where you are and letting the market play out. I’ve never seen so much discounting from providers (with me never asking) as I have over the past year.

As often discussed, this is one of the most capitalist market segments. So if providers want to raise rates - nothing to stop them. They can determine over time if it’s working. Prices do NOT rise for everything in inflationary times, they can even come down even for luxuries, and prices don’t move consistently. It’s why the wise ones call it a “basket” when calculating inflation.

Good to know for my ego, I may have to revisit like 90% of my double guessing from mostly non provider experiences! 😊

So I got experienced more outreach from him on an online dating site; realized it was him after some back and forth when he sent his pic, unprompted, and then requested mine in return, getting testy when I didn’t respond. His RM profile now seems to address a couple of the issues in discussions on this forum as @GCMan states (not linking to his profile again as it’s above) and also not on grindr or scruff, someone’s using my photos. also if you’re reading this, i’m probably going to reach out and say hello Now I’d be prepared to accept it’s someone else using his photos since I’m seeing that increasingly (not just re providers) but the location matches past comms and after I stopped responding he sent a link to the RM profile. So if it’s a fake account he’s marketing his doppelgänger well. Re the mental medical issue he references that may influence behavior I’d be sympathetic in most situations, particularly if given advance warning, but I’d likely consider what that may mean for a provider experience before committing or allowing a clean slate, since I’ve heard anecdotally (outside of discussions on here) enough about his interaction with others that I wouldn’t want to experience on my dime.

Aren’t providers - in those scnarios - usually faking though?

Ok that’s taking the discussion in a whole different direction. Workers of the world unite …

And be aware whatever approach you take (including no explanation / ghosting) may be received differently by each based on their sensitivities, experience etc

Even if he was into me I’d assume if he had other clients that day or with any life issues that can get in the way he may have difficulty performing. That would suck (and I wouldn’t be able to) if on my dime. And with generics now seemingly available from every corner deli, I would assume a real life boyfriend experience would include him taking one anyway

Any supposed provider that doesn’t ultimately understand this is either exceptionally naive and uninformed, or a fake.

Resentment among providers? I think among some this is from unrealistic expectations (financial and even emotional). It’s not indentured labor (unlike the path for many women) with conditions largely under one’s control more than elsewhere. If expectations are realistic and providers still become resentful they need to switch careers or come to terms with a choice that this is (presumably) better than the alternative options available to them. With advances in technology and more social acceptance for gay/bi men, provider margins and leverage are certainly more threatened esp if not understanding this is ultimately sales and customer service, and not a lifelong royalty for thinking of onesself as hot- and again this applies just to some, no offense meant to anyone. Unfortunately the respect / suspicion gap between providers and clients as a whole is likely to grow especially as those providers (or fake providers) seeking shortcuts or worse keep up with the technology but not the service. Just heard about another guy falling foul of the “upfront partial payment for firstimers” scam, and the parting message from the supposed provider was, minutes after the almost-client reluctantly parted with his phone number to enable an electronic payment, a screenshot sent of his LinkedIn and a Google map link to his house where he lives with his elderly disabled father, followed by being blocked on the app they connected on and the providers profile disappearing.

Unless you’re the only game in town, and even then not really … how could you be anything other than just an option. And by that I mean the service you provide, not you the human being. Because it’s the service that is sought and compensated. This holds even if the alternative is I don’t engage anyone at all (vs another provider). Why does the sex component make anything different? Asking someone selling something any detail to inform my eventual choice just doesn’t compel me to go forward with the transaction. The proof isn’t in any argument made here - it’s in the ongoing complaining because the reality isn’t delivering results based on fantasy.

I agree with many of your points here but not this. Clients also bear significant risks of physical security, reputational damage, extortion etc Lack of respect and much of that being stigma based is certainly true. But it’s two way. Some providers (not all) likely view clients not as peers in a transaction but as pathetic, outcasts etc who have no option than to meet with them for what they perhaps think comes easy to them. And this is behind what I think is sometimes bizarre behavior against their own self interest (long term / strategic / revenue maximizing). And a provider who is already public somewhat doesn’t have anonymity to lose whereas a client does. The long list of potential attempts to gain leverage over clients - though requiring eg photos, “real” phone numbers, electronic trail for deposits and payment all have benign explanations. But also many not so harmless ones as well. And again, we’re talking about some providers, not all.

Those in the hobby that we discuss here aren’t victims, they participate voluntarily. This is not child or female trafficking etc. Whatever might be unrealistic about clients’ expectations is made real by providers who can fulfill those or at least try to, and they are compensated at mutually agreed rates. If providers want to work less (including in sales efforts) and still get the same rates or more … or if clients want to pay less and get the same service or more … either side has the freedom to walk away. Simple as that.

I don’t think I waste new providers’ time with unnecessary back and forth but maybe some do. However, if I have to pay for the privilege of working out if I should pay him that alone would rule them out for me. At what point can we acknowledge there is a time and effective cost in making a potential sale which may or not come through?

I think the subject of the thread isn’t worded quite right. Don’t waste your wishes on telling clients how you feel, you can do that any time. But wishing that they agree with you doesn’t seem very likely.

I mean this in all seriousness, if this is the case why are so many providers so difficult and confrontational to the point where they are likely turning bookings away, and why do some go out of their way to emphasize they have more business than they can handle / don’t need the money etc

I’m pretty sure I’ve seen that on rentmasseur and other similar sites for massage Thats the key sign that these guys are open to more than a medical massage on a particular site

Out of curiosity (seriously) what is this consultation fee I’ve often seen mentioned here? Is this the back and forth on determining whether there’s a fit to justify a booking?

Really? We’re going to revive these conversations even though most on this forum - otherwise fine to discuss fetishes in gory detail - find them so excruciatingly uncomfortable😊?

I find the #1 reason providers are interested in any RM profile I may have is they want me to leave a review so curious if it’s paid or not The providers who do actually care about meeting specific needs or requests will ask or be very attentive during the session. The ones who don’t care about that stuff wouldn’t be swayed by anything I might put in a profile.

Are we saying we can tell if we will be safe with someone looking at their photo, or are we saying we need evidence in case of a future situation - or leverage for something more sinister?

They know that will make them look like an asshole to those who would make the cut for them on their criteria, but who are also good people. Have met several providers who say something like “open to all races / ages / body types etc” on their profile but have said to me (and I’m sure put in practice) that there’s no way they would engage with XYZ demographic … no different from people virtue signaling in online dating profiles saying similar things but in practice having clear boundaries based on such criteria. Which is fine hypocrisy aside .. but … if you’re a provider, don’t expect the professional respect you say you crave if that’s the way you visibly operate based on documented behavior.

How can a provider tell if a client is “dirty, smelly or rude” from a picture?

Participating in the hobby as either a provider or a client continues to get easier because of technology. Very different today from my memories from when I first dabbled … taking down numbers from magazines procured from shops in sketchy parts of town; using pay phones so as to remain anonymous, invariably connecting to answering machines so providers I called couldn’t reach me even if I wanted them to, as I wouldn’t leave the only number I had and shared with roommates. And on the rare occasion I got someone live, realizing I didn’t have enough change for the call … Now you can be up on a site in minutes, or surf the web in less than that if looking. and I think some young kids see it as just another potential gig to try their luck at. However … The same holds true for it getting easier to meet men for free (technology makes it easier) together with more social acceptance in much of the country / world. So that can dilute some of the factors that might have otherwise just led to an increase in providers (and client interactions).