DWnyc

There’s another side to this. You can usually start talking rates with someone within 3-4 texts and that can take as little as a minute. I know you run a very professional operation in a different legal system but even if it was all clear in the US I think there would be some ambiguity and room for flexibility that was market (not secrecy) driven Word does get around fast … if know people who for instance keep tabs on which providers are less or more friendly to something relevant to them (eg age, body type, race etc) and you won’t find that on anyone’s own advertisement for themselves.

@Jarrod_Uncut I think you will find this hobby is the freest market you will ever experience and my guess is you will face similar if not greater frustration in a perceived mismatch on earnings and your value elsewhere. Remember, the market measures supply and demand, but not your self worth. Don’t confuse the two - no one should on their earnings. The market can, however, reward innovation, being proactive and responsive to market intel, and having the self awareness to leverage what one is working with. That all starts with you - no one here has the ability to fix the market either for or against you.

Exactly. Applies for any business or product in a free market.

Shelf life for this space is likely even less than for regular providers. And if we’re considering the influence of this on hobby prices, consider that many providers can’t or don’t want to diversify into OF type platforms. So prices and differentiation has downward pressure there as well.

But then why is the older guy in your example, all other things being equal or better, per your framing, $50 cheaper? That’s the market reflecting his value to the customer base, which includes young but also old(er). And newsflash, the age of “daddy” as self-described in online profiles is coming down alarmingly where even those in their early 30s talk of themselves that way (probably as they seek those in their late teens). I think I would be a grandfather by those definitions. And not sure the average 25 year old hiring is representative - depending on the data points you’re referencing. Who at that age can hire regularly? Maybe a cheaper option helps 🥹

Thanks for raising this - I’m sure this is a contributing factor, and as uncomfortable as the topic is (including for many on this forum) it needs to be out there. Based on Jarrod’s own testimony I think many of us can have theories (which may or may not be correct) as to what issues there may be in the problems he brings to this group. I assume race may sometimes be a contributing factor, or make a bad client act worse than he would otherwise (numerous studies on this issue across all industries) but it’s likely not the only or dominant factor. I must say (and I genuinely mean this) I admire @Jarrod_Uncut for a specific reason related to this. Despite having been frustrated by a lot of Jarrods posts (because I do want him to succeed and think he’s often missing the bigger picture and isn’t making use of the collective wisdom here) I’ve been impressed that he has rarely if ever referenced race. Empathy on this sensitive subject is hard to generate as it is, and it’s an easy fallback when no other explanation seems obvious to the recipient of bad behavior (or which he feels is bad), and it’s easy to add to the eye-rolling of one’s audience recipients on the topic with an Ill placed or poorly defended argument.

Whenever this comes up I wonder if some forget that the hobby is ultimately a business transaction, not some elaborate social ritual where need to question m what is “classy” or not etc Surely both sides in a negotiation would seek what is best for them, keeping market realities but also some basic practices for fair play in mind, eg - not pressuring the other side using any leverage they may have - not acting unilaterally or at the last minute - always giving the other side a chance to accept/decline a proposal or to negotiate further That applies to providers and clients equally - so a provider should never have to justify his right not to leave anything on the table that the market allows him to have (earn) I can see sensitivity on fees if, for instance, I was employing a family member or friend, or if the work came through a sensitive referral. But surely the client provider relationship we discuss here is free of all that - and either side can walk away without anyone else being involved. Capitalism enables the hobby in the first place. Since when did capitalism also include a prohibition on revising terms through mutual agreement or seeking improved options for either or both parties? And, if a provider can maintain revenue (or doesn’t mind a revenue hit with the long term in mind) - we can have discussions on devaluing service etc and prices that never change under any circumstances etc but again this is business, not about self-worth.

Sounds like his those leaving reviews reported back. And given how reviews typically work you may have been asking people quite close to him … like literally being him himself! I’m not kidding … at least 2 providers have admitted to me they do this. And then the providers who offered free or discounted sessions if I leave a positive review … certainly in my interest to go back and report regarding an enquiry, and maybe get another “commission” 😊

People don’t really compare notes on rates for specific providers that much .. your secret deal with someone can remain a secret and not affect transactions with others In this business, most people don’t believe providers who say “never!” on flexibility on terms. So it’s not like people assume you’re rock solid on rates at any time. It’s more important that you remember any specific terms beyond your norm that you have with someone so when speaking with them in the future you know what they think is a track record for reference. If you wrote off extra time / have a holiday discount / lowered 2nd hour rate in a two hour booking etc - you’ll need a reason for not doing that again if so. Pretty much every service provider I deal with - lawyers, auditors, management consultants … gardeners and plumbers … all have variable fees that one is privy to thorough asking / repeat business / buying in bulk / being respectful … despite initial posturing.

I wouldn’t categorize providing as as a part specifically of gay life. There’s a danger of this approach feeding into homophobic stereotypes. I see the hobby as no different from eg a nanny or a caregiver hired for the those without the time or people in their lives to meet a need, or, how I might go to a restaurant for a meal rather than try to make it myself. And that applies to gay and straight provider-client engagement (in far greater volume) as well. Also, the online hookup apps are not claiming to cover all aspects of gay life however defined - just a very specific one. If that eats into your business that means the market has become more efficient. Grindr isn’t a charity - they are not obligated to compensate those they outcompete (and are they really offering anything competing with the true provider model?) Rentmen surely is in the same vein as Grindr - use emerging technology to make a specific market segment operate more efficiently. I wouldn’t go on RM to find hookups and I wouldn’t go on Grindr to find providers (though in the movie playing in my head right now I’d be open to novel scenarios … 😝

Interesting comparisons but I disagree. The online hookup apps democratize rather than disenfranchise - means someone in the middle of nowhere can connect with others (nearby or not) without having to go to far / expensive locations. Decriminalizing the hobby will be great in many ways but I think it will actually put pressure in rates downwards. That may increase likelihood of clients seeking providers but it will also reduce margins for providers.

Invoking competition isn’t a fear tactic - it’s a reality unless the market is controlled. In the past you’ve cited online hookup sites like Grindr as a competitive threat. If that is preferable to some given price, despite the time it takes, risk of cancelation / ghosting etc perhaps think about whether increasing that price gap helps or not. Again, do what you want, and the results should guide you on whether to maintain that change or not

Also: does the escort actually want a “second chance”? Bad behavior or just not clicking - often stems from not being into it and there’s no point forcing it. Appreciate @BenjaminNicholas perspective re no second chances from the provider end though I don’t think that’s universally held. Some providers would still take the second chance and the money … whether the first meet was bad because of the client or their own lack of interest which is a recipe for a bad repeat.

I would caveat saying on this issue the client and provider risk profiles are different and that guidance is really for providers. If anything clients often seek out providers because they want this aspect of their lives discreet. Without even contacting a provider, if they list a phone number or have a picture I can likely figure out who there are in real life if I put my mind to it using publicly available tools. And vice versa for a provider with my details. I don’t need to be contacted proactively. They do.

As always, do what you want, and good for you if you can get it to work, Most people here have views on this that are unlikely to change. But please remember, if you’re saying a client should understand the cost of a hotel room if you pay comes out of your fees (technically it’s your expense line in general, not just applied against their fees per se) if you shift some or all of that to the client it adds to their fees in the same way. If there are alternatives (eg in a large city like mine) that alone will kill your odds. Maybe with less or no competition in the areas you often describe you have more leverage but you also talk generally about problems getting clients to show up, book etc - that hit rate doesn’t increase typically when you raise effective prices,

The first time can be great - prompting a second time which isn’t. I feel in this hobby there’s an element of the terming they give on investments - “past performance is no indicator of future returns” One more thing. As often discussed here or rather it’s there to see if you read between the lines on some posts - what may be a memorable experience for you (good or bad) may be totally forgotten by the provider given the imbalance in volume of interactions. Make note of fundamental character issues which likely won’t change, but other things may be situation specific.

Future posts on this forum: “potential clients who never have intention of hiring waste my time asking me all these stupid questions …” 😊

The best interactions have mutual respect where everything falls into place from that. There are underlying faultlines in the provider-client dynamic for some (not all) - and things can escalate quickly whether directly or indirectly.

On the subject of moonlighting while on the job … One memorable proactive marketing message I received from a provider I’d seen a few times and hadn’t reengaged- went something like: “I’m with a guy for a week - a whole week! That’s how much I’m in demand! But he falls asleep after we play for a good few hours … so if you want a phone or video session I’d be up for that …”

I’ve never engaged more than a couple of hours - and have wondered how people can stand each other for more than that - in the hobby dynamic. In ”real life” people need breaks from each other even in the most upbeat / passionate scenarios. Otherwise the mood can sour quickly. Or maybe I’m just annoying to be with more than a couple of hours 😊

Good for you if you have a sustainable business model relative to your goals with that approach. And I like that you take a long term (eg repeat client focused) approach on this issue. Many providers think (but likely haven’t tested) that lying / claiming to be much younger is better for business. I suspect many clients will continue engage for a session once they meet in person - not necessarily walk out or verbally raise the issue - but not rebook.

Even when the RM default is often “ask me” …? 😊

He could outcompete some 39 year olds in my geography

But maybe on our respective RM profiles, if we had them, my … congeniality … would be bigger than yours 😊

Those poor 21 year olds just out of college and overworked at their consulting firms … and having to understand your business model thoroughly, trying out all the products and services before they can put together their analysis …