DWnyc

I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve traded messages before meeting on this issue and the provider will either 1) make it clear they prefer bare, plauknt safe may affect their performance and I can’t complaint if it doesn’t work for them etc 2) refuse flat out - will only accept the appointment if we agree on bare, “I'm on prep you have nothing to worry about” etc And in person I’ve experienced those who agreed on safe beforehand but really try to change that upon meeting. It’s the full BFE lol - “don’t you trust me? Don’t you like me? Dont you want it as much as I do …” etc etc I discussed this with one provider who said in addition to it making it harder to … stay harder … there’s an assumption that clients asking for safe really do want it bare, and the request is some fetish where they want that overturned etc I’ve also been stunned that some providers don’t have condoms with them (but have every toy, outfit, party consumable you can think of) And these are all folks who say they offer safe on their profiles (else I wouldn’t be engaging with them).

Then I would say you are lucky. I feel like one can discuss everything under the sun with a provider beforehand but if the reality is different, its a matter of how much that affects you and if you can resolve it. I’m generally fine with outdated pictures / lying about their age, less fine on “I know I said I’d do that (in our discussion beforehand or on my profile) but I don’t really … is that ok?” And if the provider is drunk / high / physically able to overpower you (and on some occasions has a roommate you didn’t expect to be there etc) that may affect your ability to solve the situation as you might at a restaurant or store. On balance the above and beyond from others has more than made up for this in terms of my view of providers as a group - but one should always be alert. And because I’ve sometimes been surprised at how a fantastic first experience was followed by some of this type of stuff, I don’t rely on reviews either (though they obviously help).

Well if it is a fake post / attention seeking etc - we provided the gentleman behind it a couple of hours entertainment, and he didn’t have to pay anything!

There are many inconsistent views on this, reflecting there’s no right answer. I’ve received messages asking if I’m ok as they haven’t heard from me and the last session was fun etc (with no indication from me that there would be a next time and going against the holy grail of not referring to the time as fun for the provider etc) … or “just thought I’d let you know I’m running a special offer for prior / my preferred clients” etc or most frequently something like “ just “checking in do you need anything?” I don’t see anything wrong with this - no different from say lawyers and accountants calling to check if you need anything - some firms offer biz dev budgets and time on staff calendars to focus on checking up on clients given how important it is when clients have so much choice. Everyone understands they’re not offering to bring you groceries or do your laundry when they ask if there’s anything they can help you with - and if you don’t you can ignore or politely decline.

Regardless of this is a genuine post / question - some thoughts promoted by it and the discussion: - it’s not uncommon for clients to blur the lines of provider meetings with personal interaction - making a booked session like an online hookup or even something more serious- forgetting that it’s ultimately a business transaction and often the provider’s main / only source of income. Similar issues as raised elsewhere where a great session (for the client) is misinterpreted as friendship or even more. Partly given the secret nature of these transactions, and also because (for the client) the sessions can become very personal, physically and emotionally. So the OP (assuming we have the full story or that he’s real) could have thought this is how it would be if it was a social appointment (again a bit odd - just be late and apologize) - some have mentioned how providers also cancel / are late or act up in other ways. Doesn’t justify the way the OP says he behaved - but I’ve generally found providers to operate (by my standards) far less than professionally - in politeness, reactions when things go wrong, transparency about expected costs, accuracy on services provided etc. I’ve seen the best behaved (in prior engagement or based on other reviews) turn into nasty and even scary people based on one issue not going as they want. Don’t know the full story or the OP’s prior experience with providers but he could have been bitten before and might have been scared off. Much as some things are obvious (ie he shouldn’t have canceled without compensation or showed up and eaten his most time) there are no strict rules in this business. He may have been scared of the wrath being unleashed for being late. He may be genuinely socially awkward / inexperienced in dealing with service providers of any sort who bill by the hour or people in general - one last point, much as providers love to highlight that they are in so much demand, client fees are paltry etc the reality for most is likely that they are struggling month to month and maybe budget according to projected income on daily / weekly bookings. I’ve received texts in the middle of the night from providers I’ve politely declined earlier after not being happy about something during text exchanges to gather info that go something like “was it the fee? I can bring that down to X if you come tonight …” and so forth. When you see a provider become terse because you won’t book a multi hour session or extend after your one hour finishes and - it may be more about their stress on how to pay their rent than being bad or scary people. Remembering this - often hard given the self image, tone etc that many providers like to project, perhaps as self defense - hopefully pushes clients to show a little more grace and certainly to make sure they account for their own mistakes that have financial implications.

You mean including the time needed for his explanation to immigration officers of what he will be doing while visiting their country? 😀

Unless there’s something about the scenario of hooking up with a crew member (and even if there is) - I’d say - don’t go anywhere near this! They have complex realities, the implication of losing their jobs is tremendous - @nycman mentioned their home country conditions - presumably on social matters - and it’s also economic. These guys are often supporting many folks back home and working under terrible conditions (eg they often don’t get the same benefits on the ship as American or European staff even at the same grade and are hugely dependent on passenger tips and their bosses’ goodwill. Have never been on a cruise but have heard that even on “non gay” cruises there is opportunity to connect with fellow passengers if someone has space of their own - the regular apps should help. Happy cruising!

Fortunately we are now at a point in time compared to 15-20+ years ago - where if you manage your own safety and health (whether you are negative or positive) - the other person’s HIV status shouldn’t really affect you. And if it does (eg you are not on prep and relying on others doing so to lower your risk) simply asking the other person their status (or not even doing that as they state it on their profile and you rely on that) is insanity. And in answer to the original question - just like a parallel discussion going on here on why a provider may say “vers top” if they’re not really vers) - it expands their potential client pool. Many negative clients (or those that think they are negative) - even if on prep - would avoid a provider who declares themselves undetectable (rather than keeps quiet on the whole subject). I’ve heard of providers carrying paperwork to demonstrate if someone wants to see their latest test results - but who actually goes that far to check, and how would someone concerned about all this be able to verify the paperwork was accurate?

If that really happens for anyone, “bankruptcy” would be my guess …

I’ve heard it’s as rundown as ever but as the only option for that sort of thing in town it attracts a regular crowd at predictable times (week lunch for office workers, Friday and Saturday nights for the club crowd etc)

I’m sure many just list as much as they can and be intentionally vague or ambiguous to maximize potential inquiries. You know, the type of comms from clients that we keep hearing wastes so much of their time I’ve often seen posts saying “sober” or “no drugs” followed by p n p being listed as “into”. Or “safe only” in the text and “anything goes” in the stats below - two other areas where a large number of potential clients could determine whether to go ahead.

Just opens up more options of potential clients …. who will make those inquiries about what that provider actually provides … and that drives a provider nuts because it’s a waste of time to engage with a client to establish what a provider really provides 😀

I know of several examples where providers won’t meet a client if they request safe and I think this is just the RM world catching up with that of hookups and dating. And of two prominent providers, well-known on this forum, who friends have told me, stealthed (ie removed a condom without permission after promising to use one). I also have heard - in one case directly from a provider himself, in another from a friend seeing a provider’s status on a dating site, that a negative status on RM is different from what they have presented elsewhere. It’s not enough to just have a conversation and leave it at that. I’m not naming names - not getting into why this may be the case for these folks, but just reiterating, it’s incumbent on us to use the tools at our disposal, and not rely on someone else to maintain what we prefer as comfortable.

Several providers have told me they got into the business because of situations like this. Showed there’s a market for their talents and gifts. That may also explain some of the providers describing themselves as straight.

Old thread and you likely have the answer lol. East Side still open, West Side Club closed permanently

Coming back to the question of asking for a picture and is it ok. As some voices in this thread can attest, there are some triggers if it is felt this is a screener and enough experience from many to suggest it may well be. While understandable in a blind hookup situation, I think there is a difference if this is felt in a “professional” context. Providers can’t have it both ways - wanting the respect they say they do (eg see elsewhere the threads on clients wasting their time, time is $, clients don’t understand this isn’t a hookup it’s their livelihood etc) if they also blur the line between professional services and personal choice.

That’s totally fine and your prerogative as long as in line with applicable laws. And I’m sure you can find ways to maintain selectivity bypassing laws if needed, as everyone else can do as well. That’s not a personal dig at you - I know nothing about you - just saying that it’s a minefield we all navigate whether or not we realize. And if anyone finds your practices - or those of any other business provider - worthy of public discussion they should have the right to do so as well.

Ok … what’s then the standard of professionalism in this business? Being able to service someone willing to pay (as long as there is no danger, craziness etc) - or servicing only those of that individuals choosing? I’d say fine if the provider wants to be selective on whatever criteria they choose - but then they should be prepared to have that discussed and exposed if they don’t publicize it. And deal with the repercussions. I wouldn’t shop at a store that says “I have the right not to serve people above the age of X, of this race or religion, of X weight …” even if I would be allowed in there.

I’d like to add that in some cases there can be a toxic element to this as well. For instance, I have heard from several friends of color that the minute they’ve sent a photo everything goes quiet or they’re even blocked whether on phone or on the app. And it may be that they’re asked for a picture more than others are because of something that arises in the back and forth (eg if the provider searches for their phone number or address and sees some identifying marker). One friend showed me a text exchange with a New York provider who switched immediately from a flirty playful tone to saying “I’ve had bad experiences with people like you so I’m going to have to pass”. If a provider said something like m, “Since you will be coming to my apartment I’d like a picture for security purposes” that would be one thing (even if cloaking a means of filtering out races, ages, body types etc they didn’t want to service). But just asking for a photo without further explanation deserves discussion. If a barber, a dentist, a waiter, apartment manager etc said I need to see a picture of you before I take an appointment or reservation, I think we’d be more inclined to speak up about why this can be dangerous. Not to mention that even if the motives are “innocent” how it can trigger sensitive reactions.

In an ideal world both sides would have equal respect for the other. Clients wouldn’t think they “own” a provider who must show eternal gratitude as they are so generous to engage them. Providers wouldn’t think they are rescuing desperate people who have no other options either with other providers or in “real life”. Part of this whole discussion is about the likely 90%+ instances where that equal respect isn’t actually there - on one or both sides as well as the business reality of making a sale in a competitive market with options. Clients and providers both need to understand they are not irreplaceable to the other. I’ve met great providers where I’ve felt something close to empathy when they’ve described frustrations with clients - I’ve also met those who are arrogant, narcissistic, prejudiced, not to mention very short sighted (from a business perspective) in how they interact with clients. No right answer here - people are people and always will be.

So in answer to the original posted question - yes, yes and yes! Ask anyone in sales or biz dev or marketing type roles in any industry and have them tell you how often they close a sale with just one conversation. People shouldn’t be selling (anything) if they don’t understand how the free market works. And I definitely think there is something in this industry that pushes many providers to take on a particularly stand-offish tone - “I don’t need you, but you need me …”. And depending on the specifics of the client - age, appearance etc - this can fast descend into bullying. Providers have horror stories about bad clients? So do clients about providers.

His link is here: https://rentmen.eu/MaxxStraightTop He’s in New York now and it seems traveling across the country. I’ve met him twice, and right from the start he was exceptionally attentive and the “straight” part is really him just being upfront (you’re more likely to get a fist bump than a hug when you leave) and opening up some hot scenarios. The provider experience was on par with / exceeded some of the best I’ve had. The key was to have an open discussion on expectations up front. I’ll add that he is just an exceptionally nice guy - sounds cliched but is part of the unique experience. He was also very gracious and generous in his time and juggling appointments. Definitely worth checking out.