DWnyc

Non consensual behavior is not the norm and shouldn’t be tolerated. Sounds like an outlier.

And some providers will only engage in that with a minimum of 2-3 hours booking, presumably because it affects their ability to perform with another client for quite a while afterward

I’d be surprised if ESC survives too much longer especially as it occupies a lot of space (3 floors if I remember correctly) in a high rent zone with a dying business model. Fun fact: Donald Trump voted in the school next to ESC in 2016. I remember watching some tv news correspondent covering the wait for his arrival from right in front of the entrance. Felt sorry for the guys coming out of there (though it’s a shared entrance with other businesses) without realizing they might end up on national tv!

I have said in pretty much every comm on this subject that one should appreciate the majority of providers who serve widely. The issue here isn’t complaining; as someone who typically doesn’t have a problem getting appointments with providers I seek, I can’t rest on that entitlement or take it for granted when it seems some others might be excluded and in an offensive way.

I don’t disagree and that’s the way it should be. I was addressing the point about providers potentially not being able to engage (even for $ rather than their own choice) with those they might not find attractive, and saying that most are likely already doing so.

Helpful (but painful!) reminder of the frequent perception imbalance between clients and providers 😊

With due respect, and obviously I don’t know you so this is not meant in any targeted way, you may be surprised to know what some of your providers may have really felt about you on the “hot scale”, regardless of how you might see yourself. I certainly wouldn’t want to know, especially with those I felt good enough to tip heavily or want a repeat. Sure everyone can have a type. And if that’s a basis for providers selecting clients, let those who screen have the balls to state it publicly on their profiles. It is an open secret among those who take interest in the issue that some providers have a very hostile view towards certain types. And that includes rejecting clients in an abusive way rather than making diplomatic excuses that avoid awkwardness or even just silence if they really feel unable to engage with them. Thankfully that seems to apply only to a handful.

If a friendly relationship emerges from these scenarios, I don’t see it as paying people to be your friend. You’re paying them to be your barber, dentist whatever … any warmth or common interests you discover in the process is a bonus, not the purpose of the transaction. And I wouldn’t want to stop paying my barber if we started becoming friendly. It may just be that we have a different worldview, including what constitutes “friendship”, and that’s totally fine. I don’t think we differ on what expectations one might have might have from such interactions. I’m fine calling someone I occasionally see and enjoy spending time with a friend and wouldn’t restrict the word to those in my inner circle. I wouldn’t necessarily invite them to my wedding or expect them to share burden of difficult times I might be experiencing. It’s fine if others use different words for that looser tie. And a practical point as well. People move, their lives change, they may fall out with us and so forth. Always good to leave the door open for new people entering one’s life and people rarely do so as a close friend from the first interaction.

We frequently hear that donations are not for services but for time. If you’re not even receiving that or any compensation, it’s an issue that needs to be publicized as that’s the only way to address this unprofessionalism. And it would send a signal to others in more relevant geographies that there is recourse that clients can access. Otherwise, with due respect, you’re just venting and that doesn’t help anyone.

The last example you have is fact based. Isn’t it worth sharing details of the provider for the community? If the provider wishes to challenge your account he can do so …

Well his glowing clients could be a filtered set who he’s attracted to and he gives them more than professional attention. Or they could be fake. Read through reviews sometimes and you’ll see the same grammatical mistakes / writing style. Nice that he thinks he has a business model where he is can paid for regular online hookups. Everyone is free to make their own choices here, but I find this grotesque with potential for a lot of abuse by the provider based on his prejudices / “preferences”. That’s all fine, but let him be shamed / let this be known about him and others can decide whether to patronize someone like this. All while appreciating the majority of providers who don’t seem to operate this way.

Interesting question but it shouldn’t detract from the point that friendships can occur through what begins (and may continue) ad a transactional arrangement. And ending that arrangement shouldn’t be a test of that friendship.

We don’t know you … your reasons might not be others’. Whether or not he’s your preference (worthy of PM) is less important than your observations (could be useful for the forum). I’m less concerned about negativity if it’s warranted. I don’t like pineapple on my pizza but many of my friends do. None of us like rotting pineapple though …

Good for the providers who can make multiple profiles work without losing credibility. They may have figured out on their own what companies spend millions of dollars trying to get right i.e. marketing the same product to different customer segments.

Clients are not obligated to make appointments and pay unilaterally determined rates just because a provider wants them to. It’s a mutually beneficial arrangement, mutually agreed. Providers can have all the fun in the world making fun of prospective clients if they feel they have the means. But that time and energy might be better spent thinking up strategies to be more responsive to market forces.

Not if they have turned on the “do not disturb” feature on their iPhones 😊

I agree not all providers listing that are necessarily doing that and that some list it as it signals they are open to clients doing it so as not to lose the business. But whether providers list it or not, don’t assume they steer clear of it in their private lives where (as with barebacking) behavior has seen a huge shift in what is “normal” in recent years. There’s a difference between “I don’t want any of it around during my session” and “I don’t want to go near a provider into that stuff”.

The penny pinchers as you refer to them finance the providers lives. They get tired of it? Let them Flfind people who can fund their expectations, unrealistic and grossly offensive as they may be.

Funnily it’s an option offered by many providers in NY if they can’t or won’t host in a hotel or in their own place

I have been asked pretty much every time with a new provider if I was interested in that. Not all would have listed it. To reiterate, it’s a little redundant to express horror or announce how it’s a criteria to rule out a provider (who may be a user himself even if he doesn’t list it). Those keeping quiet are smartly not broadcasting their own use but also not being counted for empirical purposes

Or short changes you because he can get away with it … 😊

English is kind of not my first language. On a typical day I exchange emails, texts and conversations with many people for whom it is. No comment on rating relative communication abilities just based on first language definition

Was once in a hotel bar in my 20s and a guy in his 60s came up to me and said “please take this as a compliment but I would like to pay you if you come up to my room and spend an hour with me”. I laughed uncomfortably and looked the other way. About an hour later as I was leaving I saw him giving instructions to uniformed cops who were putting handcuffs on a young guy. And yes, beware the bait and switch approach. Horny doesn’t always mean generous, and bruised egos from someone who thought you might have been genuinely into them, especially when drunk and high, can do funny things to one’s adrenaline.

They may not be done … they may not just be available to you in the way you Want them to be at that time. Don’t know what was being asked of the client and if any boundaries may have been crossed by general standards (as opposed to yours).

Trends vary regionally but I’ve found in my geography (east coast from DC up to Boston) prices are definitely coming down. I haven’t been active recently for a bunch of reasons and several former regulars have reached out offering me lower rates to reengage, on average down to $200/hr from $300 last xmas. One even said $175 since we are “old friends” apparently, and another said $150 if I booked at least 2 hours (previously $300/hr). And no mention of deposit (sorry had to throw that in 😊) I assume with increasing layoffs there are also more men entering the business or increasing their hours (vs other jobs they had) so there’s more competition. I definitely see a bunch of new faces in mY immediate geography. @Jarrod_Uncut it’s fine and sensible to have target pricing based on your costs and breakeven / profit goals, but that can’t dictate what your local geography will tolerate, the market just doesn’t work that way. You certainly shouldn’t invest upfront in anything unless you have good probability of recouping. Re female rates. I think it’s easier to find men for free online - and that’s part of what male providers are competing with. The price for male providers can only go up so much before the benefits of a the experience cease to justify the $$$. And as reading through these boards will tell you, clients don’t always have a perfect experience just as in real life, so once you discount for everything (more competition, tighter economy etc) trends in the months to come can only really go in one direction.