DWnyc

Bottom line is this is one of the most capitalist transactions out there - no price controls, regulatory body, recommended rates, collective bargaining etc. The only distortions that can allow excesses to creep in are an eye on the law and fear of exposure for some. So rates do stabilize over time based on what the local market will tolerate - a function of supply, demand etc I switch off at the moralizing / ethics arguments (“how do you expect providers to survive under these conditions…”) as much as I do when I hear clients speak of providers collectively as being required to do whatever they want, whenever, because they’re paying.

No disrespect meant - and we’re kind of all in the same boat - but is it really a “conquest” if the interaction is obtained this way?

I have a friend who - let’s just say for the point of this anecdote - is older and fatter than gay civilization tolerates. he has a regular engagement with a prominent provider in our geography. Their interaction is respectful, the provider encourages him to extend sessions, meet more regularly, tells him he enjoys it as well etc etc he also sees the provider popping up every so often on one of the online hookup apps. He initiated contact once not realizing who it was, and maybe the provider didn’t recognize him either, but he got an instant rejection being told directly he was too old and fat. my friend sort of enjoys playing - so reaches out on the hookup app anonymously to tease the provider every so often. (I’ve told him not to as he may get caught out and it would kill his regular sessions that he enjoys). And gets abusive responses totally out of whack with the comms in their sessions. anyway the point being when there’s a transaction involved most providers will relax whatever criteria they may have for hooking up with someone in their real lives. And that’s part of the point of the business model.

After this post and the ensuing discussion I no longer have a fear of initiating posts that will undermine my non-existent anonymous reputation

Try negotiating if you’re really set on him.

I never used to negotiate and now I do given the crazy rates. And it’s rare I haven’t got the price down at least $100 (or an offer to keep the original $ but increase the time). Even if it comes after their time-consuming posturing about they know their value etc. I used to have more sympathy for the idea of respecting a provider’s rate once they threw it out - but I’ve learnt over time I am just a transactional counterparty out of hundreds for them so it’s time to start responding in kind.

Exactly. Summarily saying “probably an illegal” does not require defense of immigrants (legal or otherwise) in response - but it introduces another ingredient into why some of us might not apparently like this extortionist with no proof - when we already have specific data on why we don’t. No need to add irrelevant layers with sweeping generalizations - we have enough to universally condemn the culprit here.

To say someone is “probably an illegal” isn’t referring to the nature of the work (and that would apply to all providers without a qualifier as in the statement). “Illegal” as a description of someone is typically understood to be someone undocumented per US immigration law … but I doubt most who use the term know about the different categories of immigrants (including the legal ones) … or that there are in fact many Caucasian “illegals” (including a couple of providers I have met from places like Ireland and NZ - but that’s another story for another day 😊)

The question is what are you seeking from the phone call especially if 5-7 mins - that’s a long time! - 7% of an hourly session! A provider would likely say I can answer whatever questions he has in a few texts and if there’s more he’s too much work! See the discussions constantly on here with providers complaining that even a couple of texts back and forth with potential clients drive them Nuts when added up over the day. While I’ve met a couple of providers who actually insist on a call before meeting (likely to “sound me out” for temperament) I’ve found most express a strong preference for text which has always made sense to me - for efficiency and discretion. Culturally I think we have moved away from calls to texts in most admin comms and I’d say good luck finding providers willing to invest the 5-7 mins you think it will take.

Not everyone has the luxury of time or budget for this level of diligence, though

Just as a caveat, there are plenty of providers with excellent reviews online and good anecdotal feedback here where I (and others I know) have experienced bad / potentially scary things. So take the precautions always, even when a provider seems totally legit, and remember there might be a very slippery slope from a provider’s good day to a bad one. Not maligning all or anywhere near most providers - but it just has to be a couple to ruin interaction for all of us.

The profile was gone when I clicked on reading the first post … now it seems to be back logged in 15 mins ago

Congrats on handling this well - for your safety foremost, and to minimize financial damage. I am frankly sick and tired of hearing providers complaining about clients wasting their time and why this means they need to charge deposits (with paper trail), or require electronic payments or photo for security etc - I would have even a tiny bit of sympathy if the legitimate concerns on the client side were acknowledged, just once. The worst I ever faced so far (touch wood) was leaving my wallet in someone’s apartment and texting him as soon as I left when I realized, and him letting me back into his apt but then demanding 1 hr $ for the “trouble” I caused him. When I said I don’t have the cash he replied “I just checked and you do”. I’m sure he photographed my drivers license while he was at it. I did get my wallet back and paid him what he asked and was glad to be done with him and leave as soon as I could. Apparently he had a track record of this type of stuff and disappeared from the site shortly after. The good news is there was no further damage - nothing on my credit card, no harassment to my address etc and I’m sure it will be the same for you. He would probably be easy to track down and he’s likely betting that a few instances of low volume extortion will pay off with larger / repeat scale becoming problematic.

Not unheard of for providers to suddenly express panic / fake disappointment at what might have been etc as the one hour mark approaches while getting ready to rush you out … with an option to extend at your choosing with a more leisurely and satisfying conclusion

Have you been on any dating sights lately?? 😊

I always thought asking to unlock photos was a sign of engagement. I don’t think I’ve ever seen anything there from anyone that was so unique or titillating that I could be accused of just picture collecting. However some providers only reveal their face in there.

Hey guys this is an interesting and important discussion … let’s not get it shut down by the moderators so let’s keep it civil please!

“Condom fatigue” is also a big issue for heterosexuals now. Declining HIV rates generally a big factor, and PREP / ability to become undetectable have a big role in that. I wouldn’t buy stock in any of the major condom manufacturers any time soon.

I do wonder how many folks on prep for prevention or the drugs to maintain undetectable status can adhere to it all the time, especially when “partying” and so forth. Wish there was a test to see how effective the level of prep is in your body at any time.

Well, I assume you meant something on the lines of “I believe my HIV status is X, therefore I do not consider myself to be a public health hazard” And others could believe the same about themselves based on their interpretation of what they believe to be their HIV status

With due respect, can you not see how similar things could be said / sincerely believed by those on Prep (“I am hiv negative … not my problem, not theirs”) or undetectable (“I can’t transmit so …”) absolutely not saying anyone should knowingly lie about (what they believe to be) their status, however …

For a hookup - yes I agree. For a paid encounter with a provider I would expect the provider to have everything needed for what is mutually understood to be the experience. And yes the client should have back-up but failing that the hierarchy of responsibility is on the one who is paid. I wouldn’t go see my doctor, lawyer, dentist etc expecting to have the same field knowledge in my brain or equipment they need for the appointment in my backpack.

That’s a separate issue from assessing a providers professionalism on whether or not - for a premium product they are offering - they have taken care of the basics I’d be fine if a provider texted as I was on my way (or he was on his way) and said “this is really embarrassing , but I’m out of lube and don’t have time to go get more before you get here … could you bring some / do you have some?” - at least it would mean they had thought through the experience they were responsible for.

I have mixed feelings about this - it has happened to me frequently though perhaps not on this scale. on the one hand we are donating for providers time - regardless of what goes on. but there’s an element of liberty taking if choose to extend time (separate from if extra time is needed because of client choice or approval) I try to clarify why we are going over whenever it happens and nip it in the bud when it’s clear there is expectation of extra $. happily there have been many occasions where we have gone over because the provider said something like “I have nothing else, let’s keep going” or “I’m enjoying this as well” or most graciously “we lost time because I did xyz so let me make it up to you” - but I don’t expect it to be the norm

He’s definitely not the only one among providers I’ve come across (not necessarily engaged). And I’ve likely missed others - it’s not an easy question to ask, while some handle it very professionally in tone (even then who knows if it’s accurate or they’re telling the truth) others can get extremely annoyed, convey they feel insulted etc. The misrepresentation can’t be justified … but maybe there’s warped logic for them in their interpretation of “equivalence” of their actual status to that they list … in terms of public health implications. And there’s the obvious point that they may lose some business based on people using that as a selection criteria. (And I’m not singling out providers here - I think it occurs frequently in online hookup profiles as well).