DWnyc

@Simon Suraci I don’t disagree with your points. Just wondering if it’s possible to increase the pie for providers in a way that clients don’t feel bullied or pressured and may actually appreciate. So not the timeshare salesperson … but the one who points out with that new jacket you now look stunning so have you thought about those shoes … Totally understand and agree with the points on feasibility because of interruptions, ability to pay, affecting mood etc.

Revisiting the OP and pondering a little, I have to say I agree the natural born male preference is quite a lot more than a “pet peeve”. If it’s such a problem for him he could figure it out discretely when confirming appointments in the way those requesting photographs do. And the experience he is offering surely rules out the few in that demographic that might approach him without reading between the lines. As @robear says above it’s a tiny demographic and the message is much louder than it needs to be. Stating it so boldly is unnecessarily hostile to that demographic (unless that was the intent).

Once hung out with a provider who was ex army. we had a nice chat about his political views with mutual consent … he then said he would not on principle see clients who were citizens of (the people’s Republic of) China. I rolled my eyes and said “if you don’t want to see Asian clients why not just say that …” He then said, no, given his ex army status and views on them as our #1 Enemy it was a point of principle and then went on to list all the other countries in Asia and said he would be fine with citizens from there.

“I saw you on Grindr and would have hooked up with you for free, but just so you know I have a rule I never see a client out of work so that’s never going to happen”

Perhaps he meant naturally born citizens …

Wonder if there’s a happy medium … An upsell doesn’t annoy me if it’s done in a way that feels like I have full choice and am being respected. And if the provider has time, and if the client is already there and has interest and $ available, it’s an impulse purchase that can be a win win.

Everything is a negotiation at the end of the day …

The upsell usually comes from those who also blow any chance of additional or future work through their attitude during the current session. One minute pretending like you can’t wait to be rid of me (texting etc) the next minute telling me about all the wonderful things that await if I extend or rebook, all while looking at your watch

I don’t believe we are debating sexual preference based on race here. That’s a valid topic but different. We are talking about if trends exist in market rates based on race, driven by different treatment of providers based on their race. And that is tied to your closing statement on respect.

A friend visiting from out of town went after 20 years or so on a Saturday night which he was told was busiest / best, and reported back he felt the place was loaded with people selling and using drugs and disproportionately “annoying” (eg they wouldn’t take “no” for an answer). Different from his experience in the past and where he lives now (Toronto).

I know someone who got a couple of sessions in return for building a providers website. He said afterward the trade didn’t feel good or fair for either party and he’d have preferred pure billing.

“You still look very hot” (together with affirming though unsolicited pat on my thigh)

“Unless you wanna extend, we should probably start winding down now …” (at 10 mins … 15 mins … 30 mins before the session is supposed to end)

Agreed. However there is difference in the association with exclusion when these identities are proudly stated. This is why most US colleges will have an African American or Hispanic or Asian etc student club but not one for whites, primarily because there is no need when the entire campus, not to mention the country, is open to them and when no effort is needed to find demographic peers. To paraphrase Matt Damon’s character in The Good Shepherd, “the rest of you are just visiting”. Now I don’t believe that … America is perhaps the greatest example of constantly welcoming and empowering incredible diversity, but it neatly sums up a lot of attitudes and realities. And that’s why it matters how and why difference and preference is expressed.

Jamie22 for the next 12 months

And this is a key point and I’m glad you caveated your opening comment implying no problem with photos. At least you have the empathy and self awareness to understand and acknowledge this issue. Many, even on this forum, with this issue discussed repeatedly, can’t or won’t. I similarly realize I am entitled in many ways and have never had a problem seeing providers I wanted to. However, I have heard stories that no longer surprise me about people I have hired and felt warmly about treating others I know very differently (often after I suggested the choice). But with that privilege we should remember we may need professional standards applied to all equally, in our own cases, at some point. We may get sick, elderly (never!), out of shape and so forth. It’s why the principle rather than our personal experiences should dictate our views.

Let’s not get carried away though by the assumption that clients are mostly outcasts, vulnerable, socially excluded or unable to find intimacy physical or otherwise. There can be many reasons including leisure, expedience, seeking variety … not unlike eating out while you can also prepare a meal at home or going on vacation when you can easily stay home. Likewise some providers should not think of themselves as the potential savior of these wretched outliers.

I typically wouldn’t hire someone I met on those sites as when I’m on there it’s for a different type of interaction. A conversation I assume is non transactional that turns transactional would irritate me. When I recognize someone from their RM profile or if someone reveals themselves as a provider, I either don’t approach them or end the interaction. Everything in its proper place. Sites like RM are quite exhaustive and if I’m looking for that service I’ll go there. I’d worry if it was a provider on one of the dating apps who I hadn’t seen anywhere else or couldn’t diligence (including on here) which is often the case for “fly by night” types vs the true professionals. I have heard from several providers, though, that they get many clients from the dating sites. So of course it happens.

Another trait of the best providers is being somewhat of a psychologist and understanding where the demand for their services comes from.

I’ve seen lots of “read between the lines” language but rarely open criteria listed. I think some people who still hire such folks don’t notice or worse don’t care, or even more worrying, see themselves as having passed strict criteria gaining elite admission while others didn’t.

Good for you. And if that’s the, case I hope and assume you would also feel the same way if it was proven 100% that a provider had prejudice (not just on ethnicity, but on say weight or age or a disability etc) but not listed on their profile. I’m in favor of “outing” such providers as I believe there needs to be a corrective mechanism to prevent this behavior, but of course its next to impossible to prove conclusively. For all those (including some posters on this forum) who say such preferences are a right or understandable, as I always say, great, let providers then have the balls to post it publicly. Legally they’ll get in trouble to the extent the industry is legal anywhere. But more importantly it will be distasteful (rightly so) to significant numbers of potential clients who may choose not to hire based on that even if not personally affected.

As several providers have themselves said on here, true professionals don’t require for any legitimate scenario that can’t be dealt with otherwise (eg security). Part of being the true professional is to be able to service pretty much anyone based on their appearance or demographic. Those who want to parachute into the industry monetizing their ability to be around people they either find attractive or can tolerate, while being unable or unwilling to provide service to the others, have no business being considered alongside the professionals.

And let hiring platforms be for hiring and not hooking up. And then half the discussions on this forum might be redundant!

No no no …! I was never going to pay him, so that was zero probability. I was just joking in reply to his bait and switch (rather than blocking or keeping quiet as I usually do in those situations) really saying (if he could read between the lines) that he’s got the “I have no other option right now” dynamic wrong. I thought it was funny, and relevant to the subject we’ve discussed on here of real professionals vs those just monetizing their hookups. I’ve saved the text exchange for my password protected amusement. Every 20 seconds he was saying things like “how much? … I really need to get off … I can bring a friend would that make a difference” all while I was chuckling and not responding. And wondering if he was a cop (and if so a bad one). Because if he could really bring a friend they could take care of each other! It’s only newsworthy because of the 180 degree switch in a matter of minutes. “Are you Generous” or “I am generous” is not uncommon to hear on these apps, and I mean no disrespect to anyone particularly given the primary subject matter of this forum 😊

Just had an exchange with a provider about a potential first booking who said out of nowhere “typically I ask for a pic before confirming but you sound hot”. This is in response to what has become a standard question from me “is there anything else I can tell you at this stage?” Based on prior disagreements and “misunderstandings” on all sorts of issues. The faux compliment doesn’t work for me and I’m actually quite irritated at the implication.