DWnyc

Exactly, 100% agree. Hence my examples of property market transactions. It only becomes a moral issue if one side is totally wrong on value (client overvalues and provider undercalues) and the other side knows this but takes advantage when finalizing (and even then some would argue it’s still not a moral issue voluntary). neither side should get special treatment (providers get a premium, clients get a discount) just because of the nature of the business.

If only if it were that easy to “prove” a point. Since we’re playing the anecdotes game … 1) bought an apt when the economy tanked around 2008 … got a 25% discount on asking price. I wouldn’t have bought it at asking price. 2) sold another property when the market was booming around 2013 and it got into a bidding war and I ended up getting about 20% more than asking Till date no charges have been pressed against me for extortion. 3) my friend in a city which has had a particularly bad property market running counter to all national trends has her house on the market for a year and came close to accepting 10% less than asking but is holding out … and in the process has spent likely more than that 10% on tax and interest and maintenance that she wouldnt be able to claim back in her annual return but she still thinks that’s a rational position. She had to move (her reason for selling) and so is paying for two properties despite only using one. She may get a shock if she runs a spreadsheet showing the cumulative effect of the scenario she is living especially if she factors in inflation and opportunity of lost interest in the cash she would have received. The examples are carefully chosen and true. What’s your point?

I think it’s also the blurring of paid vs voluntary intimacy. It can totally screw up how one views any kind of relationship (not just sexual). Being on call all the time isn’t that different from if you’re a nurse, doctor, management consultant, investment banker etc

Once I factor in my commission there won’t be much of a discount left 😊

If I read this correctly the guy is saying he went from 2-3 bookings per day to completely dead days after asking for deposits? doesn’t this mean the deposit model isn’t working for him?

Only caveat would be … are they charging and getting that rate for just a few or all their bookings - and for as much volume as they would like. I think some providers get giddy or overconfident after one or two successful bites at a price that is actually premium in their market (assuming this means they themselves are premium whatever that means) without realizing the rest of the market doesn’t price them that way. Then they interpret those unwilling to pay that amount as cheap, nefarious etc. Difficult to fix without a clear service differential that justifies pricing tiers. On average I would say 50% of those I approach who are prepared to have a conversation (remembering that many don’t reply at all) … and then I don’t proceed with (not only because of price but they may assume that’s the reason) come back with a revised price offer. typical reductions are $300 to $250 and anything above $300 to 275 or $300. Some providers can complain till they’re blue in the face that it doesn’t happen so frequently or that this is the result of haggling on my part (it never is but even if it was, if the price reduction is voluntarily offered, where’s the problem?).

Thank you for articulating this - means you are aware of this dynamic and I’m sure you make a big difference to many peoples lives. I don’t consider myself in this category … yet … but I’m fully aware I may well be one day even if temporarily. Boundaries of course must be set by providers and respected by clients @Simon Suraci.

The providers can do whatever they want of course but it baffles me that so many seem so stubborn in maintaining practices that clearly aren’t working for them, but refuse to consider other options and complain about … not sure what.

I think some travelers from high price markets to lower price ones are traveling anyway and it’s a way to make money while on vacation or funding their trip, so they’re not traveling solely to earn in another market. I always find it interesting to hear perspectives from providers visiting my geography on how it differs from theirs, each market seems very different.

The flip side is as I’ve often said in the never ending discussion on here to complaining providers, if there are clients willing to pay those rates, the market is saying that works. However I’d be laughed out of the room if I applied some of the logic seen on these boards regarding pricing calculations, customer service, marketing, strategy etc from the provider side to my company’s decisions on these matters.

And the unprofessional providers should be “outed”. They don’t deserve consideration alongside the majority of providers who are great on that front.

You’re assuming these providers are seeking filters to exclude marginal outliers and that’s likely not what these requests are about.

I like that response. Hopefully the provider in question realized he was the lead character in the soap opera called capitalism. Biggest price drop I was offered was from $600 to $200 if I came over right away. Which reminds me … Red flag: providers who like to pretend like there’s a set of rules in this game, and “I said it so that’s the way it is” (until I say something different”

Exactly. This is why I have no patience for providers complaining “it’s in my ad”. Providers need to understand very little in there is immutable and sometimes it lacks credibility. So asking is actually a sign of interest rather than “wasting time” or demonstrating you are a flake.

Isn’t it the case that changing your name doesn’t change your reviews … but getting a whole new account means you can’t transfer your reviews across?

I’ve only once paid for a providers hotel. He was a regular. He tricked me - I’d already paid him for the session and he wanted the funds to pay for the room as his credit card was apparently blocked. It was a loan … until it wasn’t … and the session never happened anyway because of some drama at his end. He promised a redo but disappeared even though he is still active on the sites. He was a regular. For someone who claimed financial hardship (which he did) he didn’t stop to think he lost the future stream of my regular bookings which would be many multiples of what he effectively stole from me. Not my job to pay for his hotel or someone’s rent if I visit their place. Not their transport to get to my town if they were coming anyway (rather than me requesting them to) and If they want to incorporate a pro rata supplement to their rate let them try it and I’ll see what it looks like but it probably won’t look good. Because I assume the first rate they quote me covers all of that and leaves them a nice margin that makes it worthwhile. From my experience dabbling in the hobby I would say the best providers (or rather the ones I respect the most and the ones with longevity and largest client base) aren’t the “hottest” but the ones who demonstrate an understanding of basic economics and long term strategy. Not to mention customer service that doesn’t leave me feeling disrespected, offended or as if I’m just a cash machine.

You need to familiarize yourself with what most people are seeking and finding on Grindr. It’s not a potential boyfriend to cuddle with in front of the tv. You are framing common behavior in gay hooking up culture as being “what you’d seek an escort for”. There is absolutely nothing atypical about someone on Grindr saying he likes endowment also saying he’s not going to pay for it. If he hangs around long enough he’ll likely find it, give up in that session, or alter his requirement on endowment (but not on paying someone).

Grindr is NOT for sourcing clients. It may happen but those are outlier cases. So when I hang out with friends and acquaintances and I don’t pay them to spend time with me, am I scouring from the dredges of the thrift store? Your tone talking about people seeking “free sex” on there as if they are doing something wrong is something I find disturbing. That’s how most initial intimate interaction occurs (unpaid, regardless of flowers and dinner which is not the same thing). That’s normal and nothing wrong with that if consensual. And check out what the straight kids are doing on Tinder. If Grindr etc connects people for consensual interaction that’s a good thing. It brings people together and like it or not that’s now part ofour societal norm. It’s overwhelmingly unpaid because that’s how it’s intended. And paid interaction is not the statistical norm. And most people can’t or won’t do that. And people aren’t “cheap” because they want to engage in what is now normal social interaction. It’s when you use words like that or frame it that way that I get offended. So anyone who doesn’t want to engage you is “cheap”? I’m not trying to curb your free speech … just giving you one honest reaction. You’ll be complaining about going to the library next and saying the men there are just looking for books and not paid interaction … how dare they waste providers’ time like that 😉

Wish the debate wasn’t just about looks but incorporated health risks (heart disease, diabetes etc). Not saying people are doing that here but that’s the cultural bias.

I went maybe 10 years ago when on a quick trip … remember it was very well maintained but such places across the country have fallen into such disrepair (eg New York, providence, Philadelphia) … if they’re at all still around. The other place I went in that area (Water Garden in San Jose) I heard couldn’t reopen after covid.

If that’s your only option I’d say go! These businesses can’t survive if relying only on two nights a week so I’m sure they have traffic at other times, maybe just different crowds

I take offense (not personally) at referring to online dating apps as “thrift store”. There are plenty who would refer to the RM apps and both the providers and clients using them in certain ways that all of us on here might find offensive too. The needs and outcomes of apps like Grindr are different from the RMs. You’re in serious business trouble if you think Grindr is your competition in any way. Time, inconvenience etc that comes from using those apps have low effective value to the demographic markets you describe. Of course apps like Grindr affect how people communicate when it comes to arranging to meet. Just like Craigslist did before and gay bars did too once people didn’t have to hang out in public restrooms and behind the bushes in a park as the only way to meet. Engaging providers is not the default norm in how people seek intimacy, but the preserve of a few lucky folks. And if people are assuming you are an extension of Grindr you need to assess that and cut them off quicker if it happens as much as you say and as it seems to affect you. Or perhaps think about how you are marketing yourself.

@Jamie21 and other providers, curious if you do often get clients seeking “lessons” or maybe just validation … not so much on looks or body type stuff but on technique, how they perform etc And are you “honest” or always positive even if you could offer helpful feedback …?

I think two days would actually give you many ups and downs, no pun intended, in the average male horniness cycle. And there’s a serious point in there too.

Yes, I would, just like I’d rather see if they had a temper or were showed signs of stealing or being violent … before I showed up and experienced it myself.! To add to the bottom line I’d say let this requirement (often not applied to all) be publicly displayed in their ad, and if it’s not and potential clients start experiencing it, let it be publicized in forums such as this, as the existence of that screener (even if, or specially if selectively applied) is a data point that the provider should be fine dealing with.