DWnyc

It’s no different from any top quality service provider who may not actually like you or providing service … but will not let you feel anything other than they deserve your business. If anyone leaves an experience feeling the provider genuinely enjoyed being with them, whatever that may actually mean in reality is irrelevant - the provider did their job well.

It’s an odd place. More a curiosity for me than a place to hang out and relax. The location, at the nexus of the hedge fund / law firm district, high end retail, the start of the upper east side residential area and the bridge to queens is an odd mix, far from Chelsea or Hell’s Kitchen and the more traditional gay venues. As a result, the crowd is a mix of all these elements and somehow it all works. The bar tenders, if you’re nice to them, will guide you to regulars in line with whatever scene you indicate you’re comfortable with, including those offering … transactions of some sort. Not unusual to see elderly folks locked in sleepy embrace with those 30-40 years younger. It’s also a well known meeting place for clients/providers connecting elsewhere and online hookups prior to heading to someone’s residence or to the nearby east side club.

I’ve been offered $ more than a few times there before!

Right … but then we come back to the cycle of “it’s in my post why are you wasting my time asking … you must be a flake …” etc The average quality of writing, website design where providers have their own, consistency etc is not great … I put it down to not having the resources / expertise / marketing support etc. but get annoyed when requests for clarification are deflected into something with malintent.

Overlap with some other professions where I just don’t understand why some disrespect them so badly. Nurses, teachers, carers etc So basically I’ll trust you with my kids / elderly or sick loved ones etc but I have no fear or shame in treating you badly. Or Ill be prepared to get very intimate with you as a provider in a way that should be reserved for very special people … yet I’ll have a parallel interaction with you that’s intentionally so disrespectful.

“I was filming for my Only Fans page, please subscribe, I’ll make more money off you that way”

Well I’m fully aware it’s a two way issue - and many providers and clients trade views here without understanding the experience behind the counterparty’s positions.

More than once I’ve shown up to a provider where he hasn’t been there … or I call to get the actual address if he gave me a nearby meeting place and can’t reach him when I’m supposedly a block or two away. And on the “you get what you pay for” debate the two times I went for above my typical budget and the local market average rate I experienced this as well (one guy ghosted, the other said when I arrived outside his apartment building “I’m still on set filming can you wait an hour or so?” (Didn’t know he was “on set”!) @Simon Suraci ‘s example was different of course (one off understandable unintended etc) and is different from what I’ve likely experienced from others, but I now make a point of confirming before I head out. That way I don’t waste time and if he’s forgotten / has any doubts he has time to either make sure he understands I’m really on my way and has a chance to tell me no. And if he’s double booked (eg with a lengthier session) and didn’t bother to tell me he has a chance to do so.

Thanks for the schooling. I haven’t introduced red herrings. And I’m thankful so far folks haven’t taken the bait on the southern border issue. No one stopping anyone introducing arguments here it’s an open forum (until the moderators shut it down …) You’re presuming a lot about my intent. I doubt the testimony of some individuals on here among the millions who enter Canada every year will carry much weight in a scientific analysis. You’re also trying to invalidate my own testimony which includes hundreds of trips into Canada as a U.S. citizen over the last 15 years or so. A quick search on stats: Canada received 22.1m tourists in 2019, up from 21.13m in 2018(Destination Canada) USA received 79m in 2019 (US Travel Association) Canadas tourism to population ration in 2019: 0.58 (using world bank pop stats) USA: 0.24 (also using world bank pop stats) Tourism is a $105 billion industry in Canada (per TIAC below) and responsible for 1.8m jobs - I doubt the government would allow rogue (or intentional country-wide) bad behavior to deny such an important part of their economy. Tourism Industry Association of Canada - Our Focus TIAC-AITC.CA Over the past couple of years, the Canadian travel and tourism industry has proven itself to be a strong and...

Ha No, but I think he had mine (and all my other info) on his computer for about 50 seconds!

Immigration officer: “Que ferez-vous monsieur?” (Thought I’d add that for dramatic effect) Me (seeing the line of backed up cars I’d have to join if I leave and try to come back): “ I’m going to throw away the pizza, officer” (get out of the car, throw the pizza away, kicking myself at the waste) Him: “Good choice, Monsieur. Welcome to Canada. Our pizza is better, please enjoy your stay, and your dinner”

I go to Canada 12+ times a year - usually flying into Halifax, Montreal, Toronto, or Vancouver and crossing by land at Niagara, Detroit/Windsor, and Vermont/Quebec frequently as well. Never had any issue whatsoever apart from the time I mistakenly was trying to cross with pepperoni pizza in the back of my car that I had forgotten to throw out m and it meant I had filled out my agriculture declaration form incorrectly. My bad and I was given the choice of pulling over and eating the pepperoni pieces before entering or throwing them away in the garbage can by the entry booth in which case they would excuse my error and let me proceed. Everyone’s experiences can be different .,,

Seriously? Hard to have a serious discussion if that’s an argument! Theres a practical reason the demographic you’re describing head to the US rather than aim for Canada. The same reason most refugee / economic migrants to the EU enter through Greece, Italy and Spain rather than Sweden.

And you’re not seeing it now. Many current US citizens (around 14% I believe) were not so at birth (I am one of them), so may have experience of entering as a non US citizen in the past as well, or have non US citizen relatives, spouses etc so can speak to that from personal experience.

As a proud US citizen I’d say we are generally no better. Most of us who are American perhaps don’t have experience of what it’s like to enter as a non citizen. It may differ by geography but JFK and EWR are not that pleasant to the arriving foreigner after a long flight trying to figure out where to go from poor signage and officials shouting at you as you look lost or if you ask a question. And the actual immigration questioning can be quite insulting - Ive overheard and been told by others some dialog that I’d be horrified if asked of me. I’ve often had the same thoughts you express - Ie - why should this be the first experience many foreigners have of our great country and it certainly doesn’t represent our hospitality once people leave immigration … but also that we should be grateful for those bringing tourism and business dollars into the US. 4 more countries and I’ll be in triple digits- my personal experiences are not scientific but they are enough to say there are many countries with security and economic migrant concerns as pressing as ours who treat guests more respectfully while still ensuring their own policies are followed. But with all this being said I don’t have patience for anyone claiming they are not a risk so why should they be subjected to what are acceptable procedures when visiting others. When I’ve had bad experiences at security or immigration or customs in other countries I’ve put it down to the unfortunate reality of travel and that while they should be grateful for my dollars I should be a gracious guest as well and respect their policies and laws. I’ll cite Israel as an interesting example - extreme security both when entering and leaving (“emigration” controls, a rarity) yet all the times I’ve been in and out, there’s been a thanks for my cooperation, a request to understand that these procedures are necessary for the greater good etc leaving me feeling empathetic rather than annoyed and like my time was wasted.

… and also varies on the client of course. Ageee 💯 I have nothing but respect for providers who pour their everything into their business as entrepreneurs, especially if they also have the EQ to understand the particular needs of their clients not just physically. I struggle when the discussions become about virtue and respect which becomes highly subjective - and rarely are those principles applied to the other side by those debating. Or when business principles are applied only selectively to issues of pricing, customer service etc while expecting business outcomes of profit (provider) or value (client).

One approach may be a discount (or said another way since that seems to be a bad word, a higher fee) based on paying a deposit or not. For those wanting discretion as the reason not to pay in advance electronically, they may be happy to pay for that privilege. And providers can get some deposit money from those for whom that isn’t an issue.

Are Indians immune to harboring racial preferences and stereotypes towards others? Surely not …

We’re going around in circles. No, it’s not about safety for all providers all the time. I would urge anyone speaking on behalf of providers on this issue who really does not believe that some (not all, maybe not even more than a small percent) would use a picture to filter clients on issues such as age, body type, ethnicity etc needs to just dig a little deeper on this. It’s very obvious beneath a not-subtle veneer. For those who have genuine security concerns - I think you are in the minority, but then you need to do a better job of explaining that and what you specifically need, and be aware how this can be interpreted by some. If the response is “I don’t care about that possible interpretation” that itself speaks volumes.

Depends if it’s before agreeing to an appointment, or not.

And it sounds like you’re one of the “good” ones - perhaps the majority. You likely provide an outlet for some that addresses their mental health as well as other needs. But there are plenty of providers out there for it to be a “thing” where dollars and morals aside there is no problem in treating people badly for this type of reason alone. I think some gay men get a kick out of bullying those for whom the journey is / has been tougher. No different from the bullies in high school. And compensates for their own lack of self esteem and worth. So they don’t think about the loss of income or reputation that can come from bad behavior. Yet they forget their own history, and what it might have been like had one been born a generation or two earlier, let alone in some of these other worlds even today.

Sure - I’m explaining a dynamic, not advocating for it, and I never ever have asked anyone to bring their price down in this business. having said that I can’t see myself ever saying “no no, it’s true the previous price you quoted me didn’t work, but now that you’ve offered me a lower price, I’ve changed my mind and do actually want to hire you, but can’t pay you less than you were originally seeking, god forbid, the world would end if that happens, so I’m retracting and now agreeing to hire you at your original pre discounted rate”.

I’m not the one making the decision, calculation or offer here.

I’m sure you didn’t mean it this way, but some might read this and assume you’re saying because of your age and demographic you should be exempt from scrutiny …

There’s the old wives (?) tale of how some fathers in some cultures take their sons to a brothel (I don’t mean disrespect by using that term) when they turn 16 or 18 to initiate them into adulthood … it’s a shame that there isn’t an equivalent dynamic to help those men who seek experiences with other men from a trusted senior perspective