DWnyc

Was once in a hotel bar in my 20s and a guy in his 60s came up to me and said “please take this as a compliment but I would like to pay you if you come up to my room and spend an hour with me”. I laughed uncomfortably and looked the other way. About an hour later as I was leaving I saw him giving instructions to uniformed cops who were putting handcuffs on a young guy. And yes, beware the bait and switch approach. Horny doesn’t always mean generous, and bruised egos from someone who thought you might have been genuinely into them, especially when drunk and high, can do funny things to one’s adrenaline.

They may not be done … they may not just be available to you in the way you Want them to be at that time. Don’t know what was being asked of the client and if any boundaries may have been crossed by general standards (as opposed to yours).

Trends vary regionally but I’ve found in my geography (east coast from DC up to Boston) prices are definitely coming down. I haven’t been active recently for a bunch of reasons and several former regulars have reached out offering me lower rates to reengage, on average down to $200/hr from $300 last xmas. One even said $175 since we are “old friends” apparently, and another said $150 if I booked at least 2 hours (previously $300/hr). And no mention of deposit (sorry had to throw that in 😊) I assume with increasing layoffs there are also more men entering the business or increasing their hours (vs other jobs they had) so there’s more competition. I definitely see a bunch of new faces in mY immediate geography. @Jarrod_Uncut it’s fine and sensible to have target pricing based on your costs and breakeven / profit goals, but that can’t dictate what your local geography will tolerate, the market just doesn’t work that way. You certainly shouldn’t invest upfront in anything unless you have good probability of recouping. Re female rates. I think it’s easier to find men for free online - and that’s part of what male providers are competing with. The price for male providers can only go up so much before the benefits of a the experience cease to justify the $$$. And as reading through these boards will tell you, clients don’t always have a perfect experience just as in real life, so once you discount for everything (more competition, tighter economy etc) trends in the months to come can only really go in one direction.

One of the first providers I ever saw spent a lot of time telling me about a domestic abuse situation with his partner, and about financial troubles since he lost his day job. Being inexperienced in the hobby, I went into “close friend” mode, which seemed natural given we were lying together naked, and gave him some uncalled for advice on both issues. He leapt up and said I had crossed a line, I was so “offensive” to make assumptions about what was right for hmm, and asked me to leave. I was a little shocked, and a little sad (again in “friend” mode) but when I look back and based on what I now know and have experienced in the provider/client dynamic I understand boundaries better, though I also wonder how much of what he told me was even real. I did send him an apology shortly after which he graciously acknowledged. I also offered to book another session with no mention of these subjects but he didn’t reply to that.

It’s partly a matter of definition. The difference between acquaintances and friends for some, or close friends vs other friends for others. It’s like your work friends who you might not have anything in common with once you switch jobs, or your college friends outside your innermost circle once you leave. If the test of a relationship being defined as friendship is sticking around when the going gets tough I doubt there’s much scope for provider - client “friendship”. But that definition would result in a small number of friendships under any scenario. It’s not necessailry a matter of being a bad friend / not a friend - there’s the issue of bandwidth / emotional energy / “I didn’t sign up for this …” etc as well.

Don’t let it. Just appreciate the times that are fun all the more and appreciate the providers working to give you that.

Sorry I misunderstood. They don’t have to be friends … but can be … depending on how that’s defined and it can mean different things for people … but even if they don’t consider themselves as your friend they can be friendly. One can be friends with ones doctor, lawyer, business clients and partners … and sometimes those are dependent on the business side going well … but doesn’t mean a warm relationship can’t be a form of friendship,

As with many such provocateur questions here I think there really isn’t a right or wrong answer. I would assume some providers would jump at the chance to make extra $ by offering this option. Some would say it’s not worth the effort of preparing, risk of flaking etc. Some would be insulted. Some would interpret as naivety on how the business seems to work. So in the absence of clearly defined guidelines, throw it all out there and see what sticks!

Had this been say a restaurant, a government agency, an accounting firm etc one could make a complaint. And if the provider or business was dismissive, defensive, justifying preference as a constitutional right etc they would quickly change their tune once bad publicity derailed their nonsense. This unregulated business with cloudy legal status makes that hard. Keep your preference to your hookups and private life, none of my business. But if you want the right to earn money from those able to pay, you deserve all the disruption you get if you bring your preference to the workplace and enough people find it offensive.

I think if someone lists that in their services, preferences or hashtags it’s pretty clear what it means. No disrespect to anyone who really doesn’t think it’s obvious or doesn’t understand what it is but given prevalence, I think we’re way past the point of having to feign naivety to maintain “good social standing” on this subject.

Ghosting behavior is sometimes not ghosting. Providers could have many reasons for not replying to a single message (vs cutting you off generally) including being overwhelmed with volume of messages from inquiries, they could have been with a client at the time etc and without an assistant managing their comms things can get missed. Or, to be blunt, drunk or high - I’ve been told more than once that’s a reason for not having replied. Though I’m a little confused … if he has already said “we’re done communicating …” why are you still reaching out? If he’s silent after telling you that, it might not be ghosting, rather telling you more explicitly not to communicate with him.

Not a surprise, and issues that many have to deal with on a daily basis in all walks of life. No disrespect meant to anyone, but I think some demographics (eg the dancer here) frequently fall back on their perceptions of superiority (not just on race, could be about age, assessment of their body/looks etc) to demean those interacting with them to try and narrow the gap they feel with them on power and status. The dancer must hate that something he despises has the economic power to be a customer he has to accommodate to pay his bills. Good for the OP for not facilitating that - with enough people standing up to him he may think about censoring his obnoxious behavior. And I’ll add that this topic has come up a few times either directly or indirectly (eg why might a provider ask for a photo and is that ok) and it seems awkward for many to discuss, however well meaning they may be. Part of that is, it is hard for some to believe / understand something they don’t experience themselves. Please keep raising examples to educate all of us.

And even if it does … why single out one provider under discussion here while many many others also list it. Use / tolerance is far more widespread than the comments here might suggest (including among providers) I’m not expressing opinion on the morals or danger of usage here but am surprised whenever the subject comes up how out of sync with prevalence the discussion sometimes becomes.

“The check’s in the mail …”

My favorites are the ones who don’t reply within a reasonable time or suddenly ghost you in the middle of back and forth … and then out of the blue suddenly start bombarding you with replies and immediately Move to “are you actually serious about meeting? Let me know asap!” Opportunity cost is what the economists call it, I believe.

Most of these guys are nowhere near your geography and will be swapping out profiles and their own burner numbers regularly, and are targeting hundreds of folks, so the odds are that in a few weeks he himself will have no record of you. I travel a lot for work and every so often I’ll recognize a profile pic I often see in my home city (one from which you’d never suspect anything odd) and while I initially thought it meant that person was traveling too there were just too many of them and I’m sure many of these are scammers posting in multiple locations. They are also “too good to be true” - very attractive folks looking to meet you after just a couple of texts, loving everything about you, being into exactly what you are etc. And because some are automated (AI getting increasingly sophisticated) or based overseas (with no offense to anyone) - look out for bad English or language that doesn’t seem naturally flowing.

I’m pretty sure WhatsApp and telegram can be screenshot …

What round are you winning here exactly? I don’t think those on here who have a policy of not paying deposits have been swayed by your arguments (together with your frequent references to - as you put it “what could happen when one doesn’t” with naughty smiley, which reinforces some fears for many of u)s. And that’s fine. Some here seem to be ok with deposits - and you can stick with clients like those. The world has not changed in the last 48 hours 😊

Similarly I would assume most providers on this website aspire to be high integrity etc while there is a real world out there where that might not be the case.

I don’t think the issue is “can a cheap flaky client really not afford a $25 or $50 deposit?” Or — “we pay deposits for other professional services, why not for this”. Framing it that way removes a key issue in this conundrum because that is not the true cost to the client. Firstly, when I’ve been asked for a deposit it’s never been that low an ask - it’s ranged between $100 (out of a $300 total donation) to the full amount. On one occasion (the only time I have paid) it was for the full amount so that the provider could pay for the hotel room where we were supposed to meet that he only told me at the last minute he hadn’t secured (and surprise surprise the money I sent via Venmo hadn’t come through in time, the room was no longer available, times were tough and he couldn’t give me a cash refund but he would make up the time which he never did). This was someone I’d seen before and he is highly rated with 100% 5 stars etc etc, so what could possibly go wrong? Secondly if it is really a token deposit of $25 or $50 to show good faith it doesn’t solve the problem of an appointment not kept because a client won’t want to lose his money. If I’m prepared to pay $300 upwards for this experience, I can afford to lose $25 if my plans change and I want to cancel for whatever reason. And the amount is too low to compensate the provider’s time if the client bails at the last minute. So that deposit is much more than the money - it’s about the provider having some leverage over the client in a world where most prefer discretion, and that is of far greater risk and value to the client than the dollar amount.

Well I’m sure there are some “cheaters” but what are we really saying - we’re worried leaving a paper trail exposes clients to providers chasing them for some reason afterward (that may expose “cheaters”). But also anyone who wants discretion for whatever reason - and there are plenty. For some that discretion is why they seek out providers in the first place. Besides when did this business become the moral police re individuals personal relationship status? Yes it’s 2023 - a lot can be done with someone’s identity, financial app details etc. And of course one of the biggest reasons for not paying a deposit is not knowing if the provider will actually show up or deliver.

Come now, aren’t 90% of the discussions on here repetitions of prior ones? Clients are also taking risks including either letting a stranger into their place or visiting someone else’s territory. Many clients - for a range of reasons - require anonymity and no paper trail for payments. That part of the hobby is not going to change any time soon. And that is why deposits for any other service are not comparable.

This seems very true from anecdotal experience. I constantly hear bi / straight guys say that they stay away from Prep and other services primarily because they don’t want prescriptions or services in their record. They don’t want the risk of their partners, employers, the government etc finding out. Or be put in a category by their insurance companies. Regardless of if that is a rational position it needs to be addressed for true disease prevention / protection of others. In some countries you can walk into a pharmacy and buy prep and other antiretrovirals without a prescription but that doesn’t address regular testing and monitoring for side effects.

Re #1: ditto Re #2: no that’s not what it means at all. It means I will pay you for services actually delivered, not those I have no indication of if you are able or willing to provide. And it also means I don’t want to leave a paper trail. Re: #3: paying you a deposit does not guarantee you are making plans for me, or plans for me in the way that I want and am paying for. I have no confirmation of that until we meet. Your concerns are legitimate and there may be a happy medium. But your positions are not absolute truths like you keep making them out to be. Or rather, your absolute truths are matched by those on the other side. I can empathize with you, I hope you can with me as well.

It got sold a few years ago and they even had a closing party. The sale fell through but it’s prime real estate operating a dwindling business model so I don’t expect it to be around much longer.