DWnyc

Particularly if the have a long list of “here’s what I won’t do” but that amount pre tax is around $500 an hour … 4 hours a week = $2000 … so start doing the math and it doesn’t take long to be better off Than most New Yorkers

As discussed elsewhere there the culture of “I know my own worth”, “I don’t want to deal with cheap clients” etc can disrupt what should be easy market dynamics (ie it works or it doesn’t work so move on). And all this gets internalized by some to equate their rate to self esteem etc What should be the freest market becomes tangled with all sorts of 21st century / millennial entitlement

Which is a good reactive hit rate … no provider should complain at that

Exactly my reaction when someone I’ve politely told it’s not going to work comes back with a revised proposal isn’t “you’re not professional, you don’t know your real value, you’re undermining the market” - it’s “you’re being realistic and trying to close a deal, good for you for trying“ (and also “let’s drop the martyrdom act”)

Among those that consider it a city … 😉

What’s surprising may be that- if your numbers are correct - they don’t actually disclose that fully. And then they still expect to be paid on the basis of vague descriptions of service or claiming the payment is for time rather than anything specific. No problem if everything is really fully disclosed. But it often isn’t. Many providers don’t hide that they are intentionally vague and openly mock those they can lure in.:

The economics is fascinating for those that can make it work (that doesn’t mean lucrative - it’s just one of the few examples of very free market economics in labor and price clearance) Most female providers see very little of the sums charged Most regular service providing models (eg law, audit) see fees go to owners of the business who (unless sole or limited proprietors) aren’t actually on the frontlines dealing with clients who expect service based on the value of the fees to them When people say “I know my value”, with no disrespect to anyone intended, I roll my eyes a little - unless I’m sure they know what all the aspects of that word they have fully thought through. And I bite my tongue when I want to reply with something like: I know the value of what I’m prepared to hand over to anyone for anything as well, as I know what it took for me to earn it

Not only market research but also marketing!

I actually don’t negotiate with providers -. at most I’ve accepted revised terms after their persistent efforts while doing nothing myself. And that’s not just my opinion, it’s my experience in multiple instances with providers well regarded on here and elsewhere, and the experience of many I know personally. And to be clear: my non negotiation position is not because I put providers on some pedestal. I don’t respect or disrespect a provider arguing they know their value and won’t budge from that - it’s irrelevant as what I care about is if the terms work for me. I’d rather move on to someone else if the terms don’t work for me as initially stated, and I wouldn’t want to be literally exposed with someone resentful at the circumstances of being there even if they accept them voluntarily. When I say that’s not how the world works (negotiation does in fact occur) I’m not saying it’s the case for 100% of providers or interactions. So you can have your position on this, and the world can still work a different way for a significant number of people / experiences. What I’m saying is it’s not 0% (no negotiations) and occurs frequently enough to be considered normal.

More than once I’ve found a surprise guest. More than once I’ve had the offer they stay, for a fee. On two occasions I had reason to leave before the session was over and was nervous for more than a split second about being outnumbered in a situation I wouldn’t want the world to know about.

So let me ask again - why did the OP pose the basic question in this thread? Market research? Or if he finds most of his clients assume he’s straight what does that mean to them given they seek him out (that’s his sex life of choice outside work and he happens to be doing this because it’s a job, or that he is guaranteed to be dismissive or insulting once the session begins etc) And why does he think most of his clients assume he’s straight? Reacting to something deliberate on his part? Or not doing something to correct a perception (but again based on what)? The provider-client interaction is almost always an act on part of the provider (and the better he is or wants to be, the client may even leave thinking at least part of it wasn’t) - so the supposed straight man can pretend to be into it (we’ve all seen the porn on the straight guys who discover the joy of being with men, or find their bills being taken care of justify showing they enjoy gay sex whether or not this is sincere etc). Or he can exaggerate or make up condescension (“you can’t get a girl … you’re not a real man …” type stuff) and downright humiliation even violence. Or as some have expressed here - it can be irrelevant and he just follows instructions and leaves the client with what he wants - and that’s no one’s business but theirs.

Some Straight men have told me they actually enjoy having sex with men (I’ve pointed out they can’t be straight - that’s a different subject) -often saying things like they feel more desired than by women during it, the better oral isn’t just a cliche, and they can “practice” fucking as gay men will give it away more readily. I can tolerate that to some degree - esp if consensual - but not the self declared straight who treats someone like shit, then takes their money and goes back to a world with more entitlement. now remind me, why did the OP ask the question?

I don’t think that’s it - that would require some empathy, taking time to understand the scene some might seek etc and I don’t see providers were discussing represent themselves that way. Though gay men may seek that out from the experience.

Have lost track of how many providers have “boasted” (perhaps trying to bond) about how they recently screwed over some ethnicity / age / body type they assumed they could belittle in conversation I asked one regular why he had redone his profile to insert “white” to describe himself in almost every other sentence. He talked about the rise of “race play” (no judgement) and how that was coded signaling, but then went on to tell me his theories of how the world should work - him taking peoples money while treating them like cr*p as he can etc (eg not deliver on what was promised but still take the money). it’s how I imagine much of the “straight” provider framing to be (again no disrespect to clients who seek that out)

I can spot that technique a mile off. I also use it frequently 😉

And that trust could be broken / damaged with what one considers a bad surprise I’ve lost count of how many providers have lied about being alone - the roommate, friend who needed a place to stay at the last minute, the dog they don’t think about since they’re minding it temporarily for their friend … etc - not disclosed even after asking

Good - this ranks #2 I think behind cats (allergies) And for New Yorkers and elsewhere up several flights of stairs that should be disclosed too

I typically apply the same rule as to non provider meets - I’ll say (unless it’s an immediate booking) “I’ll confirm before heading out an hour before our appointment and won’t leave till I hear back”. I also request if they’re busy an hour before our time that they confirm from their end sometime before then. works quite well as it covers for most of the typical scenarios: - something better came up but I can’t be bothered to tell you - I’m partied out and have lost sense of time and commitments - I wasn’t realistic on when I’d be free and expected you would hang around but didn’t want to lose the booking - I’m so good the prior client wanted to extend so I couldn’t take your call If there’s no response I leave a voicemail and text so there’s a record saying given the time it will take me to get there if I don’t hear back within 10-15 mins we can consider the appointment canceled. I’ve had a mix of apologetic call backs immediately / requests for a later time / abusive “you’re a flake” accusations and - “you’re so uptight … what’s half … one … one and a half hours to wait for the mighty moi”. As well as absolutely no response at all. My favorite recent excuse was “I was fine but my partner wanted reshoots for our only fans content so I got held up at the studio”

I think most of us have likely seen profiles online of people we know - friends, colleagues etc - and we’ve probably also chuckled or raised eyebrows at things they list - age being the obvious one. And we’ve likely come across someone who reveals something when we actually meet or some time after that which might give pause. Multiple personas and a sign this person can’t be trusted? Or how they choose to be in certain contexts with certain goals in mind … who cares, live and let live. You clearly are engaged in the hobby if on this forum so you are presumably at peace with ethics, risks etc. Is it really different from if you found out he was a saxophone player and it never came up until you discovered it and then only after your first meeting …

Or perhaps being able / willing to fake that interest regardless of orientation I think “straight” in this context gives an out to act totally disinterested and even rude - and that does actually attract some people … in terms of signaling what the attitude will be during the session I’ve met self-defined straight, bi and gay providers who act like they’re doing humanity a favor by allowing a modicum of interaction to those who they see as bottom of the league - the orientation is less important than how they see themselves vs the client in this case

One thing folks don’t think about so much (I assume) is how flexible are the rates in different cities. I know the cultural bias in this forum is “no negotiating! So unclassy!” But that’s not how the world works. So another aspect is how flexible are prices from the initial quote. I find NYC can seem higher than other cities at the start of a conversation but can become equalized or even lower given the huge range of options here. “Take it or leave it” and “I know my value” type positions are fine in theory and in sales training classes but don’t often work in practice. “Value” is what the market allows both sides to settle on after they take some time to see what is really out there.

Works both ways of course. Ultimately most clients won’t engage someone they think isn’t worth it and often that isn’t only about the dollars.

Depends who you are and what you’re offering I have rarely proactively sought more than 1 hr (unless things going really well and I don’t feel tricked into extendibg) - and I’m noticing more providers throwing in an incentive to book in the first place by offering discounted rates for the 2nd hour - and if been quoted as low as 350 or so. By those well reviewed on RM and here. Of course they might not have started with that if I started my inquiries at 2 hours. now I fully recognize there are those that charge 500+ for just one hour, but they wouldn’t be on my shortlist

Maybe he just keeps different aspects of his life separate. Providers are entitled to their intimacy in situations they choose just like everyone else. Maybe he wouldn’t even accept the OP as a client - or indeed as a repeat hookup if he tried hiring him in the way described.

Why do they assume that? Do you correct them (assuming you don’t identify yourself that way?)