DWnyc

Every so often on here we see both providers and clients talking about this hobby as serving the needs of the undesirable, those who couldn’t find companionship in real life etc and I think that’s unfair. Among the many needs providers can fill is exactly what you are seeking … ie patient judgement~free experiences to push your boundaries per your direction and under your control in a way that can be difficult with people in your life whether long term or new. Take advantage of the resources around you and enjoy!

Haha thanks for the reminder. I’m of the sort that misses or misunderstands cues verbal and non. So I would take that as a sign that the provider is saying “stop that, not interested” … and more than once I’ve also been told “hey why did you stop I was enjoying that!”.

That looks like MrNumber / it’s not exclusive to providers, anyone can see what’s there (and post feedback on someone) based on their phone number and quite a lot of providers have some interesting write ups … so I’m sure potential clients do too

If you feel you need to proceed with caution, why proceed at all?

More than once I’ve been given bank details or a link to a website or asked if I prefer Venmo or cashapp etc before the first question is even asked (ie even if I’m not a scammer, pay me for the privilege of even considering you as a potential client). Moving on …

Bad teeth … 😊

I’d say more a pet peeve than a red flag but if I ask 3/4 questions and some are left unanswered (eg rate) even after follow up, I can’t tell is that because of negotiation, a sensitivity about putting something in writing because of the nature of the transaction etc. My biggest red flags are providers asking for deposits and photos or other identifying information (full legal name, “real” phone number not burner etc). Added to that I also have no patience for obvious rudeness or demonstrating a short fuse. Not the kind which may be a misunderstanding because a text exchange where i may misunderstand tone, but aggressive language, calling me an idiot or saying something like “can’t you read? It’s on my ad” (and it isn’t always or is buried and unclear”). Or arrogance and haughtiness “don’t waste my time” in the ad type stuff before we even speak. Putting that in writing isn’t going to change any potential time waster’s behavior but stating it that way sends a different message. I know I’m not a time waster and am sincere, even if mistakes convey another message to someone who doesn’t know me, and there are ways to politely say the same things. Am not going to be naked in front of you if all this is considered acceptable behavior. As @Jamie21 says some of these topics have been discussed a lot so I won’t go into detail other than to say I know some are ok with some of these, I am not.

To be fair the provider may be thinking conversely, I don’t have the time to reply in detail As I’m busy with something else (maybe answering other messages) and this way I at least am responsive ..,

Text is my preferred … immediate, you can be very brief, and less formality That’s not to say I condone being rude or abrupt given how texts can sometimes go, and I think sometimes misunderstandings can also happen because of this … what some consider ghosting or abruptness is normal for some demographics and in their minds more efficient.

Re using email / how often checked I think there’s also a generational issue. Older folks tend to email more and text less, and reverse for say 40 and below. I fall in the category of equating them all / they come to the same handheld device.

Some providers even say in their ads “last minute ok” or even “preferred”. So it’s what works for them. I don’t think there’s a clear value judgement here on either model (last min or same day bookings ok or not ok).

A friend reminds me on this topic, his view is there’s something wrong if an online hookup agrees to meet without a face Pic, and the opposite is true if a provider demands one in order to meet.

Sure .. there’s that, there’s also the provider just not being strategic. We shouldn’t assume every provider is thinking long term, and may rely on a sense of prospects always being there. I’ve lost count of how many times a provider has been unresponsive either mid text exchange or no comms at all in response to my first one … and then maybe a day later or even longer like a week … I’ll hear from them. Might be “sorry I missed this … are you still interested …” or they may carry on as if there was no lag in response. And that could be so many things … they really did miss it, were busy and didn’t catch up on comms missed, having a bad day or jn a bad mood (we’re all human after all) and so on. But as you say a thick hide helps.

Ultimately if we are all sane and rational we will do what’s best for us, either monetarily (if that’s the main consideration) or otherwise (eg work life balance, avoiding triggers etc) if we control the process … which a provider typically does (but most workers don’t). So nothing really to debate here …

I often ask questions of a provider where the may have been in their ad. Not to torture them, but because I missed it. The biggest issue for me typically is if someone can host, non starter if they can’t. So if I don’t see the answer to that I’ll start by asking. A few times I’ve received a response on the lines of “as clearly stated I can’t host”. Done. I’ll move on. Once I asked and then while looking at their profile I gain it said they can’t … so I wrote straight back and said “sorry, ignore, just realized you can’t host” and he wrote back immediately “o should change that, actually I can …” and I ended up hiring him … an example of why seeing stated conditions as biblical edicts isn’t always the way to go.

Totally fine for a provider to have a model he prefers. No one’s business but his to set that, though he should perhaps think of if it’s the best for his earnings potential (for his own sake) rather than see it as a matter of personal worth if people don’t accept those conditions when expressing interest. Expecting the world to change to be the way one wishes it to be is a complete waste of time. Maybe people do read these conditions but don’t take them as inflexible. There is a belief among many potential clients that the business model includes a “I’ll do anything you want” mindset among providers and some are indeed like that. If a potential client likes the look of someone, or that provider is close by or some other reason for still wanting to engage, the potential client may still see if there’s a way to make this work. it doesn’t have to be about feeling disrespected or cause such angst which ultimately takes time away from other productive things. Prroviders should remember that reputations (and therefore earnings) can be made and broken on this kind of stuff. Think of the comments here, on RM and in other places on (about no one in particular) “he’s rude, arrogant” etc as well as worse “vindictive, threatening …” etc. about a provider following the tone of comms. Not letting all this get under one’s skin would help preventing that issue.

And if you (ie @Jarrod_Uncut) tell a hookup “the next time we have fun you have to engage me as an escort” good luck having non client/provider relationships. If you’re not saying that but just saying “help me out with my gas for a long drive to you” then this is not what is being discuweed in this topic, I have sympathy for what i assume is your financial situation … but I would never revisit a date/hookup who framed things in the way you have after an initial encounter that was clearly not a provider/client one.

exactly

I usually make appointments day of and often last minute. Partly because of this issue you mention of providers often canceling (I get it … I made a booking for one hour and someone else wants you for more than that … ). Which is another reason I will never give into deposits. Partly because I don’t know my own schedule that far in advance. Or my mood, as wanting to hire is often an impulsive choice. I read on here how some providers can’t deal with that or find it disrespectful etc. Not the ones I end up seeing, and maybe it’s self selection where the ones who know I’m looking for a few hours later and don’t like that don’t agree or respond. But plenty do, so this is not a universally held peeve among providers.

Don’t know what line of work you’re in but I’d say you’re an outlier. And certainly in @Jarrod_Uncut’s field having a phone and constantly checking mails is kind of part of the MO. I feel like it’s a requirement to tell providers not to keep checking during a session, that’s how much they are looking at their handheld devices (err… phones, to be precise).

I get all sorts of messages from providers loaded with proof they weren’t listening / reading in our recent interaction. Might be prior to first booking, or a repeat, or when they’re trying to proactively Re-engage after I’ve walked away because something didn’t work for me, or because they didn’t get back in a timely fashion after my last comm. These errors or forgotten details may apply to my availability, location, can I host, how long am I visiting, what am I looking for etc etc etc. And maybe they haven’t forgotten, they’re seeing if anything has changed. I never take it personally. I try and empathize and assume they are fielding numerous queries and may have lost track of an individual’s details, rather like a doctor or professor who can’t remember their patients or student but that is less likely the other way around. And just as I may be speaking with numerous providers evaluating my options, they may be doing the same with potential clients: And I don’t let any of this stuff get to me even though my time is valuable, just as theirs is. The few extra minutes (and not even that usually) it may take to reply with a correction if I am bothered to do so (and often I am not) are worth it because the benefits of engaging in the hobby overall are greater than these annoyances. You shouldn’t let this stuff get to you either, @Jarrod_Uncut

Are we actually debating the same thing? I’m saying I don’t negotiate unless invited to by a provider, you say you never accuse a provider of gouging you. They don’t seem contradictory or related. Similarly you say let’s find a way to ensure no one walks away feeling taken advantage of … and I say I’ll only negotiate if a provider invites me to negotiate, and will only hire him if we agree on terms acceptable to him, so how am I taking advantage of him? I read this exchange as one of us saying “I only go out on a date if they accept my offer to go out on a date with me …” while The other says “I don’t force people to endure harassment or violence …” And this business about the rate being the worth of a human being … I don’t see it that way. If tomorrow the provider gets a scar on his face because of an accident, or he starts losing his hair, or putting on weight … does his worth as a human being change? His rate likely will.

Sure and maybe that will also bring out some data on regional trends and variation by type of provider and service, though I reserve judgement on how scientific everything will be (while no doubt fascinating). At the end of the day this isn’t an issue about data. I believe what triggered the OP was what he felt was rude, tone, words, all being disrespectful etc and that’s about the character and personality of both those dishing it out and those reacting. If we all tried to be nicer to each other (sounds corny but it’s true) and also more thick/skinned and recognized the realities of what it can take to get things done, that might make all these discussions on ifnpeople negotiate, is it tacky or not etc rather moot.

My personal experience is different on the “most are not” issue. I would place it more at 50% over the last year. But we can agree to disagree, and as I’ve caveated with every post I’ve made on this, I’ll repeat I’ve never initiated a negotiation with a provider, and i’m Including the times a provider has wanted to keep negotiating while I have lost interest. I’ve never led anyone down the path of negotiation just for fun, it has always been out of politeness and curiosity, and the minute I’ve felt this won’t work I’ve ended the conversation out of respect for their time (and mine) and so as not to set false expectations. It may be an issue of sample set or subset of the market or a peculiarity oF my geography (Boston down to DC including New York). i’m just trying to understand how our perspectives could be so different (on the prevalence of providers being open to negotiate, not the issue of if it’s tacky etc or not). I’ll add the gentlemen I’m speaking about are all from RM so I’m not including those who eg have hit me up on dating sites or on the subway (it’s a thing …), I’m very mindful of each new hire so I check out their reviews on the site and on here including DM with people who’ve engaged them. Don’t think I’ve ever engaged someone who didn’t have at least one credible positive review. These aren’t guys from the bottom of the barrel by any means and I would say they are typically mid price in my market with some at the premium end.

We can agree, disagree, disrespect, admire etc each other for our positions. Doesn’t sound like anyone is changing anyone else’s opinions on this but it’s been interesting hearing some views I hadn’t considered even if I find them surprising or disagree. The bottom line, literally, is that negotiation will be a part of this business for the foreseeable future and maybe always. Regardless of if some find it tacky, abusive, an affront to a human being’s worth etc. It takes two to negotiate with resolution. Neither a client or a provider is putting a gun to the other’s head and either can walk away at any time if the situation is offensive enough to outweigh business sense.