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Is the upscale/high end male escort a dying breed???


Michael Wayne
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Permission to speak freely? This is an honest question to ALL forum members and I would appreciate some honest and candid answers. While I personally know that there are many, many good, wonderful and excellent clients out there who appreciate our level of DISCRETION, professionalism, our many reviews on this august site etc........ the undeniable fact is that business is down and in fact WAY WAY down for most , if not all, high end upscale providers. This applies to the twinks, the twunks, the hunks, the studs and even the experienced daddies like me. Over the last month I have talked to some colleagues and we all agree on this. The frustration level among all of us is high. Most escorts wont come on here and say it but it is true. CRAIGSLIST and GRINDR are eating away and grinding away at the biz. More and more hook up opportunities are leading more and more would be potential clients to other outlets. A new generation of $40-$120 boys are out there. Let me give you one (of many) personal examples from just last Saturday morning: I had 37 messages on grindr (33 of them were cute as hell-my type) but zero serious inquiries from the 3 major escort sites . I can run a discreet no face pic ad on cl and link guys to my 3 ad sites and do and schedule 100 dollar calls all day and all night but only a select few are willing to go 200. So I want to THANK the dozen or so WONDERFUL and AMAZING new clients I have met in DC and the surrounding area but I must ask WHERE ARE THE REST? Many regulars who saw me every time I toured to DC have fallen off the radar and disappeared without a trace. Many who promised to see me if I moved to DC have simply, well, not done that. I also speak for my MUTE colleagues who want to come on here and echo what I am saying but for biz purposes would rather not. I can speak frankly because I have been doing this biz for twenty years and made well in excess of a million bucks (wish I still had most of it! lol!): and I am decidedly not hurting financially but I feel for other working guys who literally cannot pay next months rent, car payment, etc. Finally, in closing, I HAVE SERIOUSLY CONSIDERED RETIRING recently but let me tell you why I have chosen not too: my clients have asked me not to! I have asked them to be honest with me: is it time? They all say NO and that I am as hot or hotter than ever. To a man they all say the problem is not the PRODUCT but the MARKET. The biz in general seems to be in decline. I invite the response of clients, escorts, members, moderators, lurkers, anyone. MIKEY ps: I will save for another thread the dramactic recent rise (confirmed by a number of colleagues far hotter and hipper than me) in last minute cancellations, gameplaying, bareback requests ,illegal drug requests, etc. The FREAK SHOW IS ON. I refer people back to some of my threads such as ,"The death of common courtesy,' and,"the cancellation carousel continues." Thing are now worse than ever even here in a GOOD market like DC.

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I always enjoy your candid posts Mikey. Posted from the gut and full of honesty. Not being an escort, it is difficult to completely understand the biz from your perspective. I will say that I don't think that there is one definitive answer, and I will take you at your word that most escorts are experiencing the same thing, though I would imagine that some are doing fairly well. Some of what you mention, certainly could be the cause of what you are seeing as a decline, as my hiring has absolutely shifted.

 

The only other thought that I had, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe for years a large percentage of your customer base was probably baby boomer's. Well the fact is, many of those baby boomer's are retiring. Some probably very comfortably financially, but I would venture to guess that a large percentage are now finding themselves on fixed incomes. Their days of large monthly cash flows has stopped, many are living longer, and they now have to make those dollars stretch farther than they had planned for. If you realize that it is entirely possible that you could live well into your late 80's or on into your 90's, then the concern of making your income last, regardless of income level, becomes a factor. I didn't really see this until I moved to, as you have mentioned, to "God's waiting room", funny stuff, but I am surrounded by seniors every day, and most are just making it, and even those that are, well what you could say are comfortable, watch their spending very carefully. That could account for your shrinking fan base. Many might be unwilling to spend the money at this stage of their lives.

 

Just an observation Mikey, that may or may not be applicable to what you are experiencing, but I wish you the best going forward, wherever you decide to hang your hat.

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I think in nyc, the high end is around 300 to 350. To me, it seems newer guys seem to be going for this figure and may be attributed to the cost of lodging in manhattan. As for me, i find myself being more selective as i can hardly make a mistake in selecting the wrong escort at 350 a pop. At 200, it's no problem to hook up with someone who is less than ideal but at 350, that would require more vetting.

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The Business Environment Has Changed - The "Great Recession"

 

Well Mikey I think we continue to experience the lingering effects of the "Great Recession". While the stock market hits all time highs, the middle class continues to see income decline. I know this first hand. Hence clients no longer have the "discretionary" income for the caliber of escorts that they once had. We have all had to adapt to the change (read decrease) in income. The key is to adapt to the new economy in a way that you feel comfortable and happy. I've given up the high pressure rat race and couldn't be happier. I have learned that for every minute you remain angry, you give up sixty seconds of peace of mind. Can't take credit for the idea however. It is from Ralph Waldo Emerson.

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Agree with all the above

 

Well Mikey I think we continue to experience the lingering effects of the "Great Recession". While the stock market hits all time highs, the middle class continues to see income decline. I know this first hand. Hence clients no longer have the "discretionary" income for the caliber of escorts that they once had. We have all had to adapt to the change (read decrease) in income. The key is to adapt to the new economy in a way that you feel comfortable and happy. I've given up the high pressure rat race and couldn't be happier. I have learned that for every minute you remain angry, you give up sixty seconds of peace of mind. Can't take credit for the idea however. It is from Ralph Waldo Emerson.

 

I'm one of those newly retired baby boomers, and while I can say I live comfortably, my cash flow is nothing like it used to be. I'm new to all of this, I've been with two escorts so far, but I was very surprised at all these $300 an hour rates in LA. Question: under rates whe they say ask me, does that often mean they will ask a lower amount, they just don't want other escorts to see where they prices themselves?

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Well I wouldn't say at all that Rentboy pics or M4MR have anymore county jail photo shoots than

your local grindr or growl. I am one of those 60 year olds who still look for a refreshing escort and

I'm willing to pay appropriately. When I hear such things as $400-500 then I say, go away. What I

feel is annoying are "traveling escorts" that as soon as you say, I live in upstate NY, "welll I'm in the

city when you get there let me know." What is it about traveling escort I don't understand? Again

there are some of us willing to pay competitive prices but within reason.

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I think the whole sex-for-money business changed dramatically during the first decade of the 21st century because of technology and social changes.

 

"Models" and "masseurs" who used to advertise in publications like The Advocate or free local bar magazines discovered they could get a much larger audience by repackaging themselves as "escorts" and advertising on the rapidly expanding Internet. The agencies, that had previously catered to middle class gays looking for reasonably safe and discreet hook-ups, started to go out of business, as more upscale escorts discovered they could cut out the middleman and become individual entrepreneurs on sites like Rentboy. They could also provide much more information in a Web ad, including multiple photos, and could interact with the client through email, IMs, restricted sites, etc., before setting up an appointment. Options to expand one's marketing from the local area to other cities and even countries appeared.

 

The middle class client, who was accustomed to a limited number of mostly local choices, suddenly found a wealth of goods offered online. Sites appeared offering reviews of individual escorts, and the realization that there was an actual community of clients with whom he could discuss the whole topic of escorting--many clients had hardly ever spoken with anyone else about their experiences with escorts before. Cell phones and smart phones changed the way escorts and clients co-ordinated appointments. One could get cash to pay for an escort from an ATM in a strange city late at night. Some escorts accepted credit cards!

 

Suddenly there were many more professional and semi-professional escorts offering their services, and there was an upsurge of clients who wanted to take advantage of the opportunities to hire them, opportunities many had never had before. But the law of diminishing returns is now setting in. What was once unavailable or difficult to obtain is now easily available, and therefore not as enticing as it once was. Clients who were more than willing to pay $150/hr for a fabulous sexual/social experience with an upscale escort are starting to wonder whether it is worth it to spend $250-300, especially if they have already had enough experiences to feel somewhat jaded and even--dare I say it?--bored. For many regular clients, the excitement of hiring an escort has evaporated, as the whole thing has become as predictable as buying a new TV set. Those who are looking for sexual excitement may be turning to edgier options like Backpage or Craigslist, or may have discovered free possibilities on Grinder.

 

So, to answer your question, I do think the wild heyday of the upscale escort has passed, though there will always be a market for him.

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While I am willing to splurge on the upscale escort, my discretionary income has for me and many others become much more discretionary. For me, younger escorts are usually too young and older escorts, well many are getting too old for me. That leaves the very limited middle class escort of middle age and hopefully minimal middle. I agree with the poster who mentions the issue of travel. I commute to work and I pay for the gas. I get paid for the work I do. Mention that you live outside a major city, and the expense increases. Travel time expense, gas money expense are regularly tacked on to an expensive several hour meeting or an overnight.

 

It is not easy being a horny old man on a budget, but many of us who hire, are just that. As a physician, many people tell me of financial advisors who espouse the "pay the doctor last" philosophy. Well even the doctor gets paid before the escort, well usually.

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What was once unavailable or difficult to obtain is now easily available, and therefore not as enticing as it once was. Clients who were more than willing to pay $150/hr for a fabulous sexual/social experience with an upscale escort are starting to wonder whether it is worth it to spend $250-300, especially if they have already had enough experiences to feel somewhat jaded and even--dare I say it?--bored. For many regular clients, the excitement of hiring an escort has evaporated, as the whole thing has become as predictable as buying a new TV set.

 

So, to answer your question, I do think the wild heyday of the upscale escort has passed, though there will always be a market for him.

 

Excellent point Charlie. It is quite possibly why I have changed my hiring practices as I look for more excitement and interest in other areas.

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I'm curious to know, Mikey, in your experience over the last 20 years, if demand is at all related to economic cycles. (Sorry, I don't mean to make the question sound like an Econ101 quiz…). Did you see a dip during the brief recession around 9/11? And during the big one in 2008? Or has your business been recession-proof until now? For how long have you been seeing the decline?

 

Fairly new to the high end escorting world, I had some horribly disappointing, and one dangerous situation before I learned about sites like this and the professional escorts I could find here. So I for one am more than willing to pay the going rate and am grateful for the type of service that you and gentlemen like you provide. I hope the market recovers soon and that you continue to want to hang in there. I will do my part, Sir!

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I hear what everyone is saying about losing clients to sites such as CL and Grindr, but do those sites really work well for us older gentlemen? I already hear from younger friends how flaky people are on there. Can anyone recommend a good but less expensive place to look if you are, like me, over 60? They don't have to be drop-dead gorgeous.

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My 1.5 cents

 

I am hiring a lot less, and it's not the Craigslist and Grindr boys that are to blame for my decrease in activity. I don't need to find the $50 backpage guy to make it worth my while, but I am over the $250+ (or ask me) hourly rates that fill the ads of Rentmen, Rentboy and Men4RentNow. Unfortunately, the guys I am interested in, usually do not live anywhere near me, so there is the additional costs and headaches of travel (flying someone to me, flying myself to someone, getting a hotel, having to rent a car and drive in an unfamiliar place) which make it almost prohibitive, especially when this is at best a crapshoot of whether or not I will enjoy myself. When I fly someone in to see me, this also requires I book for an overnight or longer which can make a single hire pushing $1500 easily. In addition to this, additional expenses can vary from hotels, entertainment, meals, and some escorts have even demanded taxi fare to get from their front door to their own airport. All this to find out the guy I hire is using 3 year old pictures, won't show his face, lies about his age and appearance, and when he finally gets here (if he even bothers to show up) I can't wait until the appointment is over. Other incidents like, cancelling on me from a pre-planned, pre-paid, pre-booked vacation- make it a little harder to take the plunge altogether. I also am not a big fan of escorts that will charge a deposit and then refund it to you if they cancel on you, but keep it if you have to cancel on them. It's like some of these guys have a bumper sticker that reads "My time is valuable but your time is not" when the attitude should be both your time and my time are valuable.

 

For me personally, I guess, if there were more local escorts that interested me, that charged a reasonable $150-200 hourly or (3.5X their reasonable hourly rate for an overnight), I would hire more often- like the escort I have been seeing as often as I can over the past 3 years- or the un-reviewed new guy I saw the other day or the well-reviewed southern cali guy that I am trying to set something up with.

 

For the majority of others out there, I think its a combination of rates and ripoffs. I don't think things will ever get better either, unless the bogus ads are somehow stopped (i.e. the Jason Crystal's, the Ryan Rubs, Trevor Falls etc. ad nauseam). Each client that gets ripped-off (and you can see just from reading these message center posting that their are MANY) is just that much more less likely to hire someone the next time. I also think that good honest escorts that charge reasonable rates will thrive in this economy and environment.

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My 1.5 cents

When I fly someone in to see me, this also requires I book for an overnight or longer which can make a single hire pushing $1500 easily. In addition to this, additional expenses can vary from hotels, entertainment, meals, and some escorts have even demanded taxi fare to get from their front door to their own airport. All this to find out the guy I hire is using 3 year old pictures, won't show his face, lies about his age and appearance, and when he finally gets here (if he even bothers to show up) I can't wait until the appointment is over. Other incidents like, cancelling on me from a pre-planned, pre-paid, pre-booked vacation- make it a little harder to take the plunge altogether. I also am not a big fan of escorts that will charge a deposit and then refund it to you if they cancel on you, but keep it if you have to cancel on them. It's like some of these guys have a bumper sticker that reads "My time is valuable but your time is not" when the attitude should be both your time and my time are valuable.

 

 

 

 

Add to that some whose "clock" starts ticking when they leave their home, even on prolonged hire of weekends after a deposit has been made and you've already met each other at least once before. I'm pretty sure most employers out there don't pay their employees for the hours they spent commuting in traffic (which they pay their own way on).

 

I would also add that while they still exist, the true "courtesan" who price themselves and act in a manner that encourages longer term hire (vs the one hr romp) is few and far between.

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Perhaps there is also a question of "the same old guys" in each area of the country.

Yes, there are those escorts for whom this is a side job and who don't really travel much unless it is for hire. There are, however, others who do travel around but mostly stay within the same geographic areas. Thus, East coast guys stay in the East, Western guys stay west.

If there were a bit more intermix, the East guys coming West and vice versa, there might be a bit more interest in some.

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Why do some escorts charge less for outcalls? And from what I've been reading about fakes on rentboy, does that mean there is no vetting? How do guys get the rentboy dot com printed on their pics?

 

For some guys working from home can be an inconvenience. They may have roommates or live in their parents basement. Or perhaps it's just a hassle to deal with building management and don't wan to draw attention with a lot of visitors. The escort may not want people to know where they live either for security reasons. Therefore charging more for an incall compensates for the inconvenience.

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I set my incall prices at

 

£80 one hour ($125)

£120 hour and half ($190)

£150 two hours ($235)

£500 overnight ($780)

 

These are by no means the cheapest prices nor the most expensive I put my prices up by an average £10 an hour in January Clients who have continually seen me before the increase still pay the previous rates and I have no intention of increasing any fees for them.

 

My overnight rate at £500 includes travel to London or most UK destinations if booked 7 days in advance because rail fares are very reasonable in the country if prebooked. It doesn't include travel for same day overnights where rail rares are always at rack rate. I charge about £20 extra for local outcalls, making a one hour hotel visit £100.

 

I don't do deals, in fact if someone phoned me and asked to see me cheaper I would refrain from seeing them in the first place. Offering less money or negotiating extra time for free is not a great way to start off a first time appointment but I am happy to turn up an hour earlier for a 3 hour appointment if the guy fancies a drink at the bar and I wouldn't think to charge an additional fee. I am happy to do stuff like that at my discretion.

 

There are loads of guys in my local city who would love to have regular work but I am told time and time and time again by regular clients that they tire very quickly of ringing escorts to find that their phone is switched off or have no credit on their phone to return a call. As one client recently put it "This guy wanted £100 an hour to visit me and didn't have a penny on his phone to ring me back, I had to call him another twice before finding out his phone was blocked for outgoing calls when eventually took my call, so I didn't bother".

 

One thing I have found though is that even when good regulars disappear, they nearly always come back at some point, if you're patient enough. One thing I have found though is that you should never stop marking and pushing yourself forward. Have a twitter account, let them read about your life in a blog, let them understand and know you and see your personality shine through. There's always a new kid on the block waiting to steal your thunder and new clients can become future regulars. It's rare for me to turn down any appointment and I always ensure they get a 110% commitment from me. That's how I have lasted in this industry for so long.

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I can only comment on what my experiences in NYC are: one on hand there is an increasing number of escort listings on the major websites which drives up competition. On the other hand, several of the popular escorts are very busy and it may be difficult to even get an appointment with them. Case in point: a hot guy that I have been seeing for the last few months has now retired and is only seeing 2 or 3 of his regular clients, each of whom sees him several times a week. He had his RB ad up for less than a year. So, yes, I believe that it is still possible to do very well in this business.

 

I can't comment on other parts of the country.

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The increased incall price may reflect the fee they pay to use a friend's place for an hour when they cannot host on their own.

 

There's also extra overhead. Lord knows I do extra tidying up when company is coming over, and there's extra laundry after an escort's working session.

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The Pareto Principle[/url] applies here. The top 20% of escorts make 80% of the income.[/color]

 

smartest thing said on this subject so far

 

middle america might have gotten hit when the recession came years ago but multi millionaires and above were still chugging along

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