Conundrum

[Mark_fl]

2 hours ago, Jamie21 said:

My approach is to never ever discount. It reduces your value, it makes the client think less of you.

If you’re looking for say $50 off are you really not able to afford the $300? 

I disagree about the client thinking less of you. Recently I had a nice massage at a fair, but little higher rate than I liked.

When returning, I asked about the cost for a little extra, and was given a rate I'm not comfortable spending. Honestly I'd rather have 2 massages instead, and said I'd stick with just the massage. He then offered me a little discount for the add-ons I wanted. 

Maybe he needed a little money to travel with.  Maybe he liked me. Maybe he just thought I would pay the first rate, but I thought it was great that he did that for me, and we had a great session. I couldn't recommend him more highly,  and now that I know what that session was like, I may very well opt for it again at his original price. I think much more of him than if he simply said, good luck.

[+ SirBillybob]

36 minutes ago, Mark_fl said:

I disagree about the client thinking less of you. Recently I had a nice massage at a fair, but little higher rate than I liked.

When returning, I asked about the cost for a little extra, and was given a rate I'm not comfortable spending. Honestly I'd rather have 2 massages instead, and said I'd stick with just the massage. He then offered me a little discount for the add-ons I wanted. 

Maybe he needed a little money to travel with.  Maybe he liked me. Maybe he just thought I would pay the first rate, but I thought it was great that he did that for me, and we had a great session. I couldn't recommend him more highly,  and now that I know what that session was like, I may very well opt for it again at his original price. I think much more of him than if he simply said, good luck.

Your post is a very sensible contribution to the thread. A budget preference isn’t a referendum on anyone’s value, and a provider making a discretionary accommodation needn’t be one on his either. Through fair human interaction essentially dismantling the doctrine of ‘no discount ever ever, even if hell freezes over’, neither pushover nor bargain hunter labels need be assigned. Often simply knowing somebody empathizes with our reality and how we construct value in relation to desire encourages magnanimity. 

[+ JamesB]

3 hours ago, Jamie21 said:

These services aren’t cheap, it’s usually decent amounts $300 upwards. If you’re looking for say $50 off are you really not able to afford the $300? I’m sure that most of the time the clients seeking a discount can afford the full price but they just like the idea of getting a ‘deal’ because it puts them one up on the guy they’re hiring and on all the other clients. It’s just a game. 

I have to disagree with this take. First, let me say that I don't negotiate rates at all. Even when I decline an offer and the provider comes back with a discounted rate, or, even worse, the "How much you got?" response, the conversation is over for me.

That said, affordability and perceived value are two completely different things. Whether someone can afford a price has very little to do with whether they believe the service is worth that price. When someone decides that a price isn't right for them, it's usually about perceived value, not about playing games or trying to "one-up" the provider.

Here's a recent example from this week. I contacted a new masseur in my area who had no reviews and quoted me $260 for an hour. I passed.

Can I afford $260? Absolutely, that's not an issue. Do I think a new masseur with no reviews, who hasn't even put much effort into creating an appealing ad, is worth $260? Sorry, not to me.

That's not negotiating. It's simply deciding that the price doesn't match the value I perceive.

[nate_sf]

3 hours ago, SirBillybob said:

LOL, thanks hon! I’m especially touched that you commissioned an independent translation which broadly arrived at my intended meaning. Nothing quite warms the heart of a chatroom contributor like hostile peer review accidentally validating the abstract. 😏

No mistype; I’m all for taking on some risk without passive resignation. Others may benefit from same. My only note is that I’d have shared with your budbot the commercial sex work backdrop. 

Clod gets me! He really really gets me! Please may I have his number?🙏🥰

If AI can read and it’s algorithms are based on human language and the entirety of what has been historically ever written, then there’s hope for the rest of you, even if not coinofsewers [sic].

My apologies @SirBillybob, I did not mean to cause offense. Quite the opposite, I have been and continue to be impressed with your literary skills. I thought "Clod's" methodical line-by-line analysis was amusing so wanted to share, but yes poor Clod did not have the benefit of knowing the full commercial sex work context. I suppose he would have shown me the door had he known.

Escrow for escorts? I think you might be onto something... 😉

[+ Jamie21]

4 hours ago, JamesB said:

That's not negotiating. It's simply deciding that the price doesn't match the value I perceive.

You didn’t negotiate though did you. So I agree it isn’t negotiating. He values his time at $260, you didn’t, and you didn’t ask him for a discount. If you had asked for a discount then the affordability issue arises. 

[+ Jamie21]

6 hours ago, Mark_fl said:

I disagree about the client thinking less of you.

From the sex worker’s perspective…it certainly feels like it. 

[Mark_fl]

Also the logic of assuming someone CAN afford the additional $50 is flawed. Using that logic, we can all afford a million an hour. After all, if someone who says that $350 is all they can afford can 'really' afford $400, the same logic means they can 'really' afford $450 and so on. It never ends. Can I afford a gallon of milk that costs $60? I'd say no.  Even if I can afford a $200 massage.

[+ SirBillybob]

10 hours ago, nate_sf said:

My apologies @SirBillybob, I did not mean to cause offense. Quite the opposite, I have been and continue to be impressed with your literary skills. I thought "Clod's" methodical line-by-line analysis was amusing so wanted to share, but yes poor Clod did not have the benefit of knowing the full commercial sex work context. I suppose he would have shown me the door had he known.

Escrow for escorts? I think you might be onto something... 😉

Welp, now we each have an affordable sycophant on our side, one of them a machine. 😏😂

Kidding, a little. I was reading one of those harsher criticisms of AI regarding the tendency of it’s bottom line MO to pull one in and reinforce input hire dependency based on its agreeability and putting one in a good light when outsourcing writing to it. 

Of course, you seemed to have asked for its comments neutrally. Nice of you. It doesn’t have an add-on upsell if you request scorched earth, or better yet to worship at my footnotes.

If it gluttonly consumes more water as a consequence, that’s on the user. If you feed it some sex work context, that tracks with its most evolved experiential algorithmic expertise. If you ask it to critically appraise your content, just define the protection preferences that apply and tap into its heart of gold.

Claude, I note by the way, is an epicene moniker that accommodates all in the attention economy brothel. But I remain keen for his/her WhatsApp contact … 

Edited Tuesday at 02:19 PM by SirBillybob

[viewing ownly]

What was the initial conundrum again? (kidding)

A difference between affordability between 1 or two hours is nothing like being unable to afford someone's quoted hourly rate. If he's too much for you, thank him anyway, and don't see him until you can afford him. As you experienced, reducing the time reduces the quality, pretty much with anyone you would see.

As for the stuff he forgot, in your words, "Throw his shit away". If he was in so much of a hurry to leave your appointment and forget stuff, it's his responsibility to get back in touch with you to retrieve it. You're a classier man than most. 

[Wings246]

On 8/24/2026 at 8:28 AM, Connosieurhands said:

I said I can’t do $X but I can do a slightly lower $Y. He readily agreed. When he got to my place, he said for $Y, he’d only do 40 mins. I was annoyed but he did the 40 min session.

The sequence of events is bit unclear to me.  So you said you couldn't do X, but then he agreed to a lower number Y.  At this point, did he specify that for him to accept the counter offer of Y, the duration of the session would be reduced to 40 minutes?  Or did you proceed with the assumption that the reduced rate of Y would still give you 1 hour and then he told you it would only be 40 minutes after he arrived?  The timing was critical.  It sounded like a classic case of bait and switch to me.  I would be outraged if I were you.

[Wings246]

On 8/24/2026 at 8:28 AM, Connosieurhands said:

He then said can you walk my stuff over to me a few blocks because he had left the area so it would at least be midway for him. Wtf. Like what do you do in that scenario??

I could have just blocked him and thrown out his shit but I didn’t want to be a bad person. He didn’t even seem grateful that I walked over and returned his stuff (just a perfunctory thank you). 

The answer is NO.  Abso-fucking-lutely NO.  You don't owe him anything but he acts like you do owe him something (probably due to the reduced rate).  If I were in a good mood, I'd have just left his stuff at the lost and found box of the building.  The fact that he didn't even seem grateful for your meeting him halfway proved that he's not worthy of your kindness.  You're a saint.

[+ purplekow]

Most of the time, you get what you pay for.  Even if he did agree to  a reduced rate, you were relying on him having the same enthusiasm for the encounter and you were short timed, timed and ultimately not happy with the encounter.  That said, you are partly to blame as it saved you (x-y) dollars but you wound up with a lesser product.

As far as returning his belongings, I am not leaving the cozy confines of my home to return them.  I might consider it if I were happy with the service, but since you were not, let him walk the walk.   In fact, to be especially uncooperative, I might watch the clock and tell him he had a specific amount of time to get them because you had other plans and would be leaving on time.    

[Colton]

On 8/24/2026 at 6:47 PM, Jamie21 said:

I’m sure that most of the time the clients seeking a discount can afford the full price but they just like the idea of getting a ‘deal’ because it puts them one up on the guy they’re hiring and on all the other clients. It’s just a game. 

Not sure it’s always about one up-ing someone.  There are cultures where negotiation is expected in any business transaction.  

Also isn’t it a valid pricing strategy to initially quote more than the “value he puts on his service” to capture more alpha/value?   United doesn’t sell all economy seats for the same price, and Uber doesn’t price all 1 mi rides the same.  
 

if you quote $500 but willing to accept $400, your expected average rate should be higher than if you quote $400 to everyone.  

 

[+ Jamie21]

2 hours ago, Colton said:

Not sure it’s always about one up-ing someone.  There are cultures where negotiation is expected in any business transaction.  

Also isn’t it a valid pricing strategy to initially quote more than the “value he puts on his service” to capture more alpha/value?   United doesn’t sell all economy seats for the same price, and Uber doesn’t price all 1 mi rides the same.  
 

if you quote $500 but willing to accept $400, your expected average rate should be higher than if you quote $400 to everyone.  

 

I could copy airlines and use a demand led model, pricing higher when it’s busy, or just add $100 to my rate to capture higher revenue. But I don’t think it would work. My prices are published, I don’t have a system managing demand pricing, nor would my clients appreciate the rate changing all the time. It’s just not feasible for a one man band. Also if I did put the rate at $400 (when I’d be happy to accept $300) the expectation of getting the higher rate would quickly establish itself as my perception of my value. 

[+ SirBillybob]

I don’t hire from ads although the fellow may happen to have one. That isn’t to say that negotiation is non-existent in dealmaking through other hobby methods. But the last time I tested the platforms was a few years ago abroad. When I honestly described what I customarily would donate, the response was: “I set the price according to what I can get paid by clients.” His screening is assortative according to a skewed max. Delighted it works for him, if he wasn’t taking the piss. Hard pass. Even the little head can recognize a questionable bill of goods even if walking away without resentment.

I don’t think an advertised rate comes with an invisible NON-NEGOTIABLE clause. Consumers are routinely conditioned by everything from Amazon’s struck-through prices and “compare at” pricing to discounts, price matching, packages and discretionary rates in human services. If that signalling is absent, or the platform doesn’t accommodate it, or providers worry about a discount signal cheapening image, it’s hardly surprising that the consumer sometimes initiates the negotiation. 

That dynamic is broadly manifested in curated settings where it’s essentially expected … you may be witless enough to ask the cost rather than present your compensation offer based on knowledge of fair ranges in the milieu context. You will likely get an outlier quote that is mutually known as high but occasionally serendipitously granted or accommodated afterwards as a gratuity signal. The fellow would laugh knowingly at a peer sticking to his guns and cutting his nose off to spite his face because it doesn’t help the group to make more, but paradoxically indicates the comparative desirability of those willing to balance earnings with punter satisfaction. That said, there is an overall energetic atmosphere of appreciation for the setting that undercuts any sense of devaluing the services on tap. 

For platforms, the advertised rate is the advertised rate. Whether it’s also the provider’s reservation price is another matter. Asking about $50 less merely tests that proposition; “no” remains a perfectly serviceable answer and neither party need respond with “Talk to the hand”. But please don’t lecture a cohort of thousands comfortably and securely riding in their turnip trucks about being manipulated 

Again, in case you didn’t get a perspective that you are reluctant to have shoved down your throat, the asymmetry is important. The provider may reasonably prefer not to advertise discounts because overt markdown language can undermine positioning, while still being willing to exercise discretion in an individual transaction. If so, someone has to broach the deviation from the posted rate, and structurally that is more likely to be the client. There’s an obvious difference between Amazon slapping a strikethrough on a shower curtain list price and a human service provider publicly marking themselves down. The latter may quite reasonably avoid bargain-bin signalling while retaining some pricing discretion. That leaves the consumer to test whether any exists. Asking the question and being entitled to a yes are two very different things. Surely I’d be viewed as a fool if I consistently paid over time 100% of a stripper’s opening off-site quote when in fact I paid 40% over some 180 appointments … he/ him among the jury members. 

A normative position about how markets operates is not a niggle over their mechanics. You can get with the norm by simply looking around you and seeing its predominance. You will notice a degree of reiteration similar to that which characterizes this post. In this case I prefer to be repetitive in one post than in a few dozen. 

Edited Wednesday at 03:10 PM by SirBillybob

[d.anders]

If more self-employed people truly understood what "can't afford" really means, they might be a little more successful at business. I may have $300 in the bank, but that does not mean I can afford to give that to a service provider. Those of us who live on social security alone have a fixed income. With a fixed income, especially in NYC, the only way you can survive is by living on a budget. You may get lucky and be able to save a little here and there, but that does not mean you can "afford" a $300 massage.

I will never ask a HE masseur to consider a lower price for his service, but I do begin the conversation by saying I'm not interested in the HE part. If he comes back with, "What were you hoping to pay?" Then I'll be honest and reveal my number. So far, I've never been refused.

If someone left their personal items in my apartment, there is no way I will be meeting that person half way. If they don't come back in a timely fashion, I will sell them or give the items away. (If I really like you, I will put them in the mail for you, and save you the trip.)

[+ SirBillybob]

OP did the right thing, with no hindsight bias advantage. One can fume at the apparent downstream attitude, but it’s remarkably easy to make the correct call once supplied with information that wasn’t available when the decision was made.

The narrative may have been closer to “half fool me once …” He also hadn’t known prior to point of care that Uranus daily rotation adjustment calculations were to have been applied to Earth’s clock, or watch in this case. 

Edited Wednesday at 04:20 PM by SirBillybob