Do I need to keep paying to feel this kind of connection?

[pubic_assistance]

8 hours ago, lseactuary90 said:

As a mixed race (non-black), muscled, tall dude, who is vers, this is needless to say very dissapointing. How are any of these 'real' options that I could genuinely give a shot? 

Might I inquire....what is in this "mix" ?

..and ...what is your cultural background as opposed to ethnic background ?

[lseactuary90]

3 hours ago, Wings246 said:

Disclaimer: I have zero romantic experience whatsoever and I'm very, very new to his "hobby" (as some of the members here call it).  I'm your direct opposite: short & very unattractive & much older than you.  So I don't even know if I'm qualified to respond.  But those 4 sentences you wrote struck me as I feel more or less the same way (when I'm in a paid situation).  A different version of myself -- that I don't know exists -- comes out.  "Soft, present, sensual, alive" are understatements.  I LOVED (not just liked) who I was in that moment.  It's both astonishing and scary to discover an alternative persona just as though I have dissociative identity disorder.

I can't help but wonder (for myself and for you, of course): is this the version that the world needs to see in order for meaningful, romantic, and intimate relationships to materialize?

Thanks for sharing! I've had pieces of this come out before (with more connected hookups I've had in the past) but its not sustained as long as it did this time (or maybe with time I'm better at identifying it also since its not 'new'). I do 100% think this is the 'version' the world needs to see. What I can't wrap my head around is what I did differently. From a 'physical' perspective, I was doing the same thing (infact I remember him shaking initially when massaging me which was cute lol), but the payment I think over-rode that 'intimidation feeling' several men get when sleeping with me (I'm not boasting, but I have been told this to my face) and then since the walls were broken we were able to connect beyond that. So therefore this 'version' came out, because it was allowed to also come out i.e. get reciprocated and met. I don't think I was a completely different person, I was being myself, but just more came out because there was an opportunity/container for it. 

This is what relationships are for... but alas. 

Edited June 2 by lseactuary90

[lseactuary90]

Just now, pubic_assistance said:

Might I inquire....what is in this "mix" ?

..and ...what is your cultural background as opposed to ethnic background ?

DM'd you, its a bit unique, so prefer to keep it off public forums for now. 

[+ KensingtonHomo]

I've been with my husband for over 23 years; married for over 10. We met in person; in a bar shortly after 9/11. He was in the towers on 9/11 and narrowly escaped. I lost a cousin who was a firefighter. As this was November 2001, his experience quickly came to the surface. How have we lasted for 23 years and going strong? Mostly, we accept each other - foibles and all. And we have been through a lot together (lost both of our mothers, I had a lot of losses in my family). We've gained and lost friends. Changed jobs. I'll be real with you and say that he is much easier to live with and more easygoing than I am. (I sometimes refer to him as my "long-suffering husband.) 

The most important thing I can tell you is that chemistry is vitally important. You will either have it with someone or you won't. We have great chemistry. We are yin and yang. He's the quiet to my loud; the soft to my hard; etc. While he's quieter and introverted, he's also very funny in one-on-one conversations. Our chemistry was obvious very early on. And chemistry isn't just sexual. You see friends with great chemistry. Michelle Visage has a career because of her chemistry with Rupaul. 

We were also monogamous for the first 17 years of our relationship. We ended up figuring out we loved "playing together" by accident on vacation in Spain. We hire primarily for convenience. We're busy. We have specific times in the week when having a lengthy session works well, especially now that we're middle-aged. 

I have a friend who is 32. He's good-looking, smart, well-read, has great hobbies, and is very active and outgoing. And he's in the same boat as you. My take is that you are not alone. Dating in NYC as a gay man in your 30s who wants an intimate romantic relationship is very hard now. The apps dehumanize people. I find millennials to be far less capable of vulnerability than Gen Xers. 

Back to chemistry. In a culture obsessed with appearance, it's hard to find chemistry. Chemistry is not based on looks; neither sexual chemistry nor friendship chemistry nor romantic chemistry. If you're screening out people who do not fit your desired physical appearance, you may be screening out many of the people you could have chemistry with. I would encourage you to accept dates or pursue them with guys who are not tall, handsome with huge dicks. Look for similar interests, look at guys who you think look like fun even if they're a 6. 

I'm nice looking but my husband - a former muscal theater actor - looks like a Disney prince. He's an 8.5-9. I'm probably a 6.5, but I'm funny, passionate, a friend told me I love people in a way that is almost violent. So give some 6s a try!

That's my two cents. 

[+ sniper]

A lot of the commitment-minded guys paired off in their 20s. You might need to wait a few years for a crop of widowed/divorced men in your age group. 

[lseactuary90]

2 hours ago, sniper said:

A lot of the commitment-minded guys paired off in their 20s. You might need to wait a few years for a crop of widowed/divorced men in your age group. 

So this is where I disagree. I know a lot of these people, a lot are cheating, on these apps, unhappy but can't get out etc. How many times have you heard 2 people break up because one of them was a narcissistic person or similar (when do you ever hear 'oh we broke up because we are both good people but just grew apart')? As you said, new crop will appear in a few years, but they are divorcing for a reason, just saying.  

[+ sniper]

34 minutes ago, lseactuary90 said:

So this is where I disagree. I know a lot of these people, a lot are cheating, on these apps, unhappy but can't get out etc. How many times have you heard 2 people break up because one of them was a narcissistic person or similar (when do you ever hear 'oh we broke up because we are both good people but just grew apart')? As you said, new crop will appear in a few years, but they are divorcing for a reason, just saying.  

Are they both the problem or was one of them the problem? There are those who consider getting to your age without having had a committed relationship a red flag, you know. 

Dan Savage put it this way, anyone can have their dealbreakers, but if your number of dealbreakers is greater than the number of fingers on one hand, you're probably gonna wind up alone.

People -all people - are messy. They're going to have things you don't like about them.

I have a straight friend in his late 40s who is going to die single because he thinks having waited so long entitles him to a higher standard, not a lower one. Meanwhile he would be the ideal second husband for a mother. And he'd make a great stepdad.

Don't overlook those who loved and lost.

[lseactuary90]

1 hour ago, sniper said:

Are they both the problem or was one of them the problem? There are those who consider getting to your age without having had a committed relationship a red flag, you know. 

Dan Savage put it this way, anyone can have their dealbreakers, but if your number of dealbreakers is greater than the number of fingers on one hand, you're probably gonna wind up alone.

People -all people - are messy. They're going to have things you don't like about them.

I have a straight friend in his late 40s who is going to die single because he thinks having waited so long entitles him to a higher standard, not a lower one. Meanwhile he would be the ideal second husband for a mother. And he'd make a great stepdad.

Don't overlook those who loved and lost.

I think drawing blanket statements is dangerous as everyone's life is different. 

I know happy couples who met in college, I know happy couples who met after 40. I know sad couples who met in college, I know sad couples who met after 40. And everything in between. Just like attraction is not 'linear', someones life journey is not linear either. 

Someone who considers not having a committed relationship by 35 a red flag - without asking why / making assumptions - is a red flag to me. Someone who has been in relationship after relationship and made the same mistake over and over again is better? I don't think so. Someone who has had a difficult life and therefore no bandwidth for a relationship imo would be 10x better than someone who has hurt 100 people along the way with their selfish pursuits. You see what I mean? Also what is considered a relationship? Have you read Reddit? Someone calls someone their boyfriend, and learns 9 months later they do not bottom, I wonder what they have been doing 9 months to consider eachother boyfriends, yet they don't even know eachothers basic sexual preferences. If this is considered a 'relationship' then sure, I'm glad I've not engaged in one so far.

I agree with your statement that people are messy and there are always going to be things you don't like. However, it boils down to *both* of you wanting to give eachother a chance. No relationship is a one way street. 

FWIW, I never 'filtered' anyone out who has relationship experience and/or a past. I only filter those emotionally unavailable - partnered or otherwise. 

Edited June 2 by lseactuary90

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

30 minutes ago, lseactuary90 said:

Someone calls someone their boyfriend, and learns 9 months later they do not bottom, I wonder what they have been doing 9 months to consider eachother boyfriends, yet they don't even know eachothers basic sexual preferences.

This sounds amazing! 😍. Imagine getting to know someone through a series of dates, before having sex!  This is what heterosexual couples had been doing for millennia before the sexual revolution, so it must work for some people.

I've had a few boyfriends like this.  We dated and enjoyed each other's company for months, and never did have sex.  We called each other every day, and looked forward to dates with anticipation. Imagine the thrill of holding your boyfriend's hand in the movie theater!  Imagine talking and listening and loving someone and being intimate in ways that does not involve a penis or asshole.  I'm not going to suggest every relationship should be this way and wait for marriage to have sex.   But I do enjoy the rare relationship like this when it comes along. 💕 

Edited June 2 by Vegas_Millennial

[lseactuary90]

1 minute ago, Vegas_Millennial said:

This sounds amazing! 😍. Imagine getting to know someone through a series of dates, before having sex! 

I've had a few boyfriends like this.  We dated and enjoyed each other's company for months, and never did have sex.  We called each other every day, and looked forward to dates with anticipation. Imagine the thrill of holding your boyfriend's hand in the movie theater!  Imagine talking and listening and loving someone and being intimate in ways that does not involve a penis or asshole.  I'm not going to suggest every relationship should be this way and wait for marriage to have sex.   But I do enjoy the rare relationship like this when it comes along. 💕 

They were having sex already, that is what the concern was. But yes, if they were just dating, that would have been different completely. 

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

Just now, lseactuary90 said:

But yes, if they were just dating, that would have been different completely. 

You may want to try hiring an escort to just go on a date, with absolutely no sex.  Once you learn to enjoy the human connection in public without nudity, sex, cuddling, etc., then dating and making friends with men you don't pay should be easier.   But remember, learn to be invested in the other person and make him feel good first, even when his story is not that interesting to you.  That's what the paid escort is doing with you when you talk with each other.

[lseactuary90]

4 minutes ago, Vegas_Millennial said:

You may want to try hiring an escort to just go on a date, with absolutely no sex.  Once you learn to enjoy the human connection in public without nudity, sex, cuddling, etc., then dating and making friends with men you don't pay should be easier.   But remember, learn to be invested in the other person and make him feel good first, even when his story is not that interesting to you.  That's what the paid escort is doing with you when you talk with each other.

I did actually consider this, and 3 escorts got 'freaked out' with this ask lol. So my search continues.

Then I tried mid-way like coming over, chatting, cuddles, but no sex, but then... that almost always leads to sex. 😕 (not escorts, I mean normal guys)

I have no issues going out with friends or social interactions that don't involve sex etc though. 

Edited June 2 by lseactuary90

[+ KensingtonHomo]

2 hours ago, sniper said:

I have a straight friend in his late 40s who is going to die single because he thinks having waited so long entitles him to a higher standard, not a lower one. Meanwhile he would be the ideal second husband for a mother. And he'd make a great stepdad.

Only a heterosexual man could believe that a complete lack of a long-term relationship entitles him to a better one. I can guarantee that every straight woman I know would see his history as a HUGE red flag. 

[lseactuary90]

4 minutes ago, KensingtonHomo said:

Only a heterosexual man could believe that a complete lack of a long-term relationship entitles him to a better one. I can guarantee that every straight woman I know would see his history as a HUGE red flag. 

I can imagine in a hetro world why that would be a puzzle, but given the way dating/relationships are now (something like 2/3rd of men below 30 are single, and the way the apps only really cater to the top x% of men etc) would you really be surprised anymore? 

Even someone like Chris Evans found his wife outside of the US, and after 40. Just saying even Captain America outsourced. lol 

In the gay world, its more complex, people come out at different times, and there are other variables (e.g. not everyone lives in a huge city, etc). 

Entitlement is bad either way, hetro or homo.

Edited June 2 by lseactuary90

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

1 minute ago, lseactuary90 said:

Then I tried mid-way like coming over, chatting, cuddles, but no sex, but then... that almost always leads to sex.

It's okay to say "No". 😉 

Before the sexual revolution, that was usually the girl's role.  But in today's world it's okay for a man to so "No" too 😉.

Phrases like "the 3 date rule" are lost on younger millennials who use hookup app.  It used to be the social norm to never even mention sex until the end of the 3rd date.  Ah, I'm getting sentimental for the olden days.

 

[+ KensingtonHomo]

4 minutes ago, lseactuary90 said:

Even someone like Chris Evans found his wife outside of the US, and after 40. Just saying even Captain America outsourced. lol 

This is such a manosphere "bro" take, it's hard to respond. Anyway, Evans had several multi-year relationships with women like Jenny Slate. In his case, I suspect that his career prevented him from settling down. I don't think it's a coincidence that it happened once he was done with Marvel. 

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

11 minutes ago, lseactuary90 said:

I did actually consider this, and 3 escorts got 'freaked out' with this ask lol.

I can't understand how that could be. 

Here's an instructional video that could help.  It's okay the change the genders: the rules of thinking about what someone else would like to do and giving them a choice and being respectful are still relevant tips for today: 

 

[+ sniper]

You could join any or all of the various gay sports leagues in NYC. I know several marriages that started on the rugby team in particular. 

Edited June 3 by sniper

[lseactuary90]

1 minute ago, sniper said:

You could join any or all of the various gay sports leagues in NYC. I know several marriages that started on the rubgy team in particular. 

Already done this. Same issues persist. 

[lseactuary90]

2 minutes ago, Vegas_Millennial said:

I can't understand how that could be. 

Here's an instructional video that could help.  It's okay the change the genders: the rules of thinking about what someone else would like to do and giving them a choice and being respectful are still relevant tips for today: 

 

Not sure if this is a joke or not, but I've literally done this, and guys just flake. 

[ShortCutie7]

2 hours ago, lseactuary90 said:

 Someone who has had a difficult life and therefore no bandwidth for a relationship imo would be 10x better than someone who has hurt 100 people along the way with their selfish pursuits.

Exactly!  This describes my situation- I have never been in a relationship because I have not had the time/opportunity to date and pursue relationships.  That doesn’t mean I would be a bad boyfriend if my situation were to change… just inexperienced.

[+ DrownedBoy]

All I wanted to add is, even with gay men, the older they get, the more likely they are to value true connection and soften their standards. That part is universal to all humans.

When I was in my 20s, my gay friends were easily the most dysfunctional and troubled group I ever knew, and understood only physical attraction. I don't recall lots of guys in their 20s settling down.

[+ sniper]

7 hours ago, lseactuary90 said:

Already done this. Same issues persist. 

Stick around a few years.

[+ ApexNomad]

1 minute ago, sniper said:

Stick around a few years.

Stick around a few months… when he posts a fourth thread like this. 

He’s done everything except look inward. Same issue persists.

[Thelatin]

I plugged your original comment into chatgpt.

Why Did This Feel So Real?

Because it was.
You didn’t just get a massage or a service — you experienced presence, attention, care, and mutual chemistry. The fact that it began as a paid service doesn’t negate the emotional or energetic resonance that unfolded. This man wasn’t just going through the motions; he engaged. He chose to connect, lie with you, talk, and be intimate in ways not strictly required by his “job.”

This is the paradox of erotic labor: yes, it’s transactional in structure, but real connection can and does still happen within that frame. People — both clients and providers — bring their whole selves to these moments. That’s part of what makes them powerful.

---

“Why do you need to pay?”

That question landed because it hit on a deep insecurity — not just about attractiveness or desirability, but about why this kind of intimacy feels inaccessible without compensation. And the truth is: many gay men, especially those who are sensitive, embodied, or relationally wired, find modern dating culture profoundly alienating.

NYC, in particular, can feel like an intimacy desert dressed up as an oasis: everyone’s available, but no one’s really present. The culture skews toward hyper-sexualized, emotionally unavailable, often substance-involved encounters. Your needs — slowness, sensuality, depth — don’t fit easily into that mold. So what you're experiencing isn’t that you’re the problem. It’s that the ecosystem you're in isn't built to support what you crave.

So paying someone who actually knows how to be present becomes a workaround. A means to access something you’re not getting elsewhere.

---

So… Was It Him, or Your Starvation?

Likely both.
You were primed — emotionally and physically — for a moment of connection. And this person happened to be someone capable of showing up for it. Whether that’s just his professional polish or a deeper mutual spark is unknowable (for now). But either way, it tapped into a version of yourself you rarely get to embody. That matters.

The “melting,” the presence, the tenderness — that’s not fake. That’s you being touched in the way you need. And no matter how it came about, that’s real.

---

Are You Overthinking It?

No.
You're thinking deeply, not obsessively. It’s natural to feel disoriented when a paid experience gives you something the “free” world has denied you. You're not just analyzing the moment — you're re-evaluating your relationship with touch, sex, intimacy, and maybe even your sense of worth. That’s big. That deserves space.

---

Is It Worth Continuing Down This Road?

It depends what you’re seeking:

• If you want more of that feeling, and can afford it without shame or regret, then yes — continuing to explore intimacy with professionals (especially those who offer the "boyfriend experience") could be healing. Not as a replacement for “real” relationships, but as a place to practice being open, soft, and connected — safely and consistently.

• If you're worried about getting attached, then it’s worth moving forward with eyes wide open. Professionals may genuinely care for you, but their boundaries are part of the structure. Connection can be mutual and bounded — that’s part of what makes it safe for them.

• If you want to find that without paying, then it may be time to rethink your environments. The apps and party circuits you mentioned aren’t built for the kind of intimacy you're craving. There are alternative spaces — tantra groups, queer embodiment workshops, touch-positive events, therapy-informed dating spaces — where the culture of connection is different.

---

Will You Be Paying for Intimacy Forever?

No — not if you don’t want to.

What this experience has done is show you what’s possible. That matters. You’ve tasted a version of connection that’s worth building toward. Now you can work backwards: what conditions made that possible? What was different? What would it take to recreate that — slowly, with someone who isn't being paid — even if it takes time?

That’s not a fantasy. That’s a blueprint.

---

Final Thoughts

You’re not broken for craving real, sensual, embodied intimacy. You’re not less-than for paying to feel it. You’re not naïve for wondering if it meant more.

What matters most is that you found a version of yourself you liked — one that felt alive and whole. That’s gold. Whether it comes through a masseur, a lover, or a friend — don’t let go of that version of you.

You deserve more of him — and more of you.

If you want to talk about ways to seek that intimacy in non-paid contexts (or how to engage safely with the world of professional intimacy while protecting your heart), I’m here.

You’re not alone in this. Far from it.