SoCal Fires - Paradise Lost?

[Luv2play]

Although I live very far away in a different country and climate, southern California has always held a special attraction for me. My first visit was in 1980 and over the years I sampled its charms a dozen odd times. 

Wildfires have ravaged the state for many years but the one this time seems different. It has struck in the heart of LA and its coastal communities of Pacific Palisades, Malibu, Santa Monica and Ventura. Also other fires have struck other communities at the same time. 
 

In happier times I have been to the Getty Villa in Malibu, the Will Roger’s Beach at Santa Monica and driven along the Coastal Highway linking the beachfront communities. They are just memories now and I probably will never be back. Probably better that way. 
 

 

[BuffaloKyle]

Thoughts and prayers to all the forum members and providers who live in southern California!

[mike carey]

I've been watching this all day and it's profoundly disturbing. My thoughts are with everyone living there, especially anyone in that beautiful coastal area. Santa Ana causing as much pain now as Santa Anna did all those years ago.

[+ azdr0710]

whether or not most or all of these wildfires are arson will be investigated, of course, but there certainly has not been in any lightning in the area in weeks.......the annual Santa Ana winds, blowing from northeast to southwest from the deserts to the north, are a legendary weather pattern in the area and much feared.......for the Glendale/Burbank/Pasadena area, where some of the fires are centered, only a trace of rain occurred in December when 2.02 inches is normal for that month (UCLA in Westwood also received only a trace with a norm of 2.93 inches)........the risk California homeowners assume by building and living in areas prone to wildfire (and other natural disasters) is a debate that has existed for many decades.......by the way, a great book if you get the chance......

Edited January 9 by azdr0710

[+ Pensant]

I lived in OC for 30 years and moved away in 2014. I remember the Laguna Beach Fire of 1994. I lived in the neighboring town. I fear this will be the most devastating fire in LA’s history. Absolutely devastating.

[Luv2play]

It is too early to know what caused these fires but one culprit appears to be power lines which blew down in the hours before the fires started. This I believe is what caused the fire in Maui. A lesson that might be learned is that these power lines need to be buried especially in residential areas and urban concentrations that are vulnerable to wildfires. 
 

 

[jeezifonly]

I live a bit north of DTLA, in a risky zone for fire, and have been watching all the destruction as our city is being ravaged. No immediate threat to my area, pending what Madame Morrible conjures up for wind!

I hope all CoM members - providers and clients, who live in LA area are safe, with families, friends and and homes intact. 🙏🏻

[BuffaloKyle]

 

[Shoedog112]

I hope all forum members who live in SCAL…greater Los Angeles area, are safe and not severely impacted by the wildfires!  Even West Hollywood was on evacuation notice last night! Be safe my friends. 

[mike carey]

Three threads, and two of their titles merged.

[MikeBiDude]

I’m south of the fire(s), getting a lot of smoke and ash but I’m safe. I have 3 friends who have lost their homes in two of the fires, many more friends on mandatory evacuations. I’ve never seen it so devastating, never seen the Santa Ana winds so violent (and I’m a weather geek). Have a family member with me for this weekend who was fire safe, but the air quality/smoke was too much for them.

[BSR]

So many things went so wrong to cause this fire, but the one question that bothers me most:  why do the fire hydrants have no water?

 

[Luv2play]

I assume that the fire hydrants have little to no water because LA has been suffering an extreme drought for the last year. In contrast to the previous two years of extreme rainfalls. Unfortunately those two years only served to create lush vegetation which then dried out this past summer to create fuel for the wildfires. 
 

The fact remains southern California doesn’t have enough water for its still expanding population, which is putting additional stresses on the water system. With climate change proceeding apace, things are only likely to get worse. I’m not sure if anyone has a solution to the problem. Time will tell. 

[mike carey]

23 minutes ago, MikeBiDude said:

I’m south of the fire(s), getting a lot of smoke and ash but I’m safe. I have 3 friends who have lost their homes in two of the fires, many more friends on mandatory evacuations. I’ve never seen it so devastating, never seen the Santa Ana winds so violent (and I’m a weather geek). Have a family member with me for this weekend who was fire safe, but the air quality/smoke was too much for them.

I remember in Black Summer, Canberra had worse air quality than any city in the world. It was extremely uncomfortable, and as we learnt, was deadly. This morning I heard on the radio news that today LA had the worst air quality in the Western Hemisphere.

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

10 minutes ago, Luv2play said:

The fact remains southern California doesn’t have enough water for its still expanding population, which is putting additional stresses on the water system.

 

10 minutes ago, Luv2play said:

I’m not sure if anyone has a solution to the problem. Time will tell.

It looks like the solution has begun, with California's population stagnant or dropping.

 

[Luv2play]

1 minute ago, Vegas_Millennial said:

 

It looks like the solution has begun, with California's population stagnant or dropping.

 

I read recent that LA’s population was continuing to grow. Is that right? The state numbers may be hiding that. 

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

1 hour ago, Vegas_Millennial said:

 

It looks like the solution has begun, with California's population stagnant or dropping.

 

If Los Angeles does grow, the solution lies in recycling its sewage directly back into the water supply.  Nearby Ventura, California, has already started indirect sewage recycling by injecting treated sewage into the ground about 1 mile up-steam in the aquifer above its wells. 

In Ventura, they found the treated sewage effluent to be cleaner than the naturally occurring groundwater anyway, because of the decades of groundwater pollution from agriculture.

Unfortunately, some firefighter unions resist using recycled wastewater.  In Nevada, the firefighters unions got a law passed that prohibit cities from using recycled wastewater for fire hydrants.  Because fire hydrants use the exact same water infrastructure as homes and businesses, that means no recycled wastewater for anybody, lest a city pay to install and maintain 2 sets of pipes in every street and 2 separate reservoir systems.  The water is clean enough to drink, but not clean enough to spray on fires! 🔥 (Sarcasm)

Edited January 10 by Vegas_Millennial

[Marc in Calif]

39 minutes ago, BSR said:

So many things went so wrong to cause this fire, but the one question that bothers me most:  why do the fire hydrants have no water?

It's very easy to find logical causes for the currently low water levels (and water pressure) to control the fires:

• Extreme demand for water from five simultaneous fires in the local area (quadruple the usual demand)
• Demand for firefighting on the ground because high winds prevented aerial firefighting
• Fire hydrants not built to control large fires
• Summer drought plus extremely low rainfall in this "rainy season"

Edited January 10 by Marc in Calif

[Marc in Calif]

9 minutes ago, Vegas_Millennial said:

It looks like the solution has begun, with California's population stagnant or dropping.

You responded to a comment about southern California with data and graphs about the entire state? Makes sense to me! 🙃

BTW, the population of the metro LA area (a considerable portion of southern California) has been increasing. 

[BSR]

Just now, Marc in Calif said:

It's very easy to find logical causes for the currently low water levels (and water pressure) to control the fires:

• Extreme demand for water from five fires in the local area (quadruple the usual demand)
• Demand for firefighting on the ground because high winds prevented aerial firefighting
• Fire hydrants not built to control large fires
• Summer drought plus extremely low rainfall in this "rainy season"

Droughts have chronically plagued Southern California since (I’m guessing) forever.  If this most recent drought is to blame for waterless fire hydrants, then the question becomes why did California fail to prepare for drought?

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

4 minutes ago, Marc in Calif said:

You responded to a comment about southern California with data and graphs about the entire state? Makes sense to me! 🙃

Considering that southern California gets much of its water from northern California via the California Aquaduct, it is very appropriate to consider the total state population numbers.  More demand on the water system in the northern part of the state affects the southern part, and vice versa.

Edited January 10 by Vegas_Millennial

[Marc in Calif]

2 minutes ago, BSR said:

... why did California fail to prepare for drought?

And how would you do that?

Rainwater harvesting is impossible without rain.

Harvesting water from the air is impossible when the humidity is virtually nonexistent?

I realize that you're probably looking to place blame on someone or something. Maybe you can start by blaming human civilization for global warming and climate change.

[Luv2play]

Just now, Marc in Calif said:

And how would you do that?

Rainwater harvesting is impossible without rain.

Harvesting water from the air is impossible when the humidity is virtually nonexistent?

I realize that you're probably looking to place blame on someone or something. Maybe you can start by blaming human civilization for global warming and climate change.

That’s a good start. 

[MikeBiDude]

In Pacific Palisades, much of the local water supply comes from large storage tanks up on hills. Gravity provides the water pressure. The tanks got drained faster than new water could get pumped uphill because of all the hydrants getting used. This is also why there is a “boil water” or use bottled water in the area…back pressure could be putting “bad” water into the system.

There just simply isn’t enough water pressure to maintain the water for this kind of event, maybe that will change.

The winds are the demon in this situation more than enough water.

[Marc in Calif]

4 minutes ago, Vegas_Millennial said:

Considering that southern California gets much of its water from northern California via the California Aquaduct, it is very appropriate to consider the total state population numbers.  More demand on the water system in the northern part of the state affects the southern part, and vice versa.

You seem to forget that by far the largest user of water in all of California is Big Agriculture -- which feeds the nation and not just California. Local population changes won't decrease the need for agriculture exports. 

... agriculture uses about 80% of the state's developed water (water that is controlled and managed). The California Department of Food and Agriculture says California grows over a third of the country's vegetables and about three-quarters of fruits and nuts.