Retiring to Vietnam to be upper middle class for only $1,000 x month?

[marylander1940]

Op note: Is he available ? 

Actually this is a serious subject!

 

 

Edited March 30 by marylander1940

[Welshman]

You have to bear the following in mind, the average income in Vietname is $4,163 a year, therefore everything has to be priced relative to that (for instance a loaf of bread is $1.30.

[pubic_assistance]

We had a Vietnamese houseboy for a few years when the kids were little.. He always commented how shocking American food prices were (and how terrible the food tasted) He was a great cook...so we ate Vietnamese a few days per week.

I don't know about living there but I'd love to eat my way through the country. Amazing food culture. (And yes @marylander1940...this guy's kinda fuckable.)

[marylander1940]

1 minute ago, pubic_assistance said:

We had a Vietnamese houseboy for a few years when the kids were little.. He always commented how shocking American food prices were (and how terrible the food tasted) He was a great cook...so we ate Vietnamese a few days per week.

I don't know about living there but I'd love to eat my way through the country. Amazing food culture. (And yes @marylander1940...this guy's kinda fuckable.)

You've read my mind! 

 

[marylander1940]

5 hours ago, Welshman said:

You have to bear the following in mind, the average income in Vietname is $4,163 a year, therefore everything has to be priced relative to that (for instance a loaf of bread is $1.30.

Without a doubt! 

Vietnam is also the China of China!

[KeepItReal]

20 hours ago, marylander1940 said:

Op note: Is he available ? 

Actually this is a serious subject!

 

 

Interesting- thanks for posting it. He left out a number of large expenses like insurance and health care for us old folks. 🫣 Cost of a couple of houseboys (of course!) should also be considered! 😉

[pubic_assistance]

27 minutes ago, KeepItReal said:

Cost of a couple of houseboys (of course!) 

That was the interesting thing about our houseboy. In Vietnam his parents had a staff of FOUR and yet with their money they couldn't afford to house their son while he was in college. The difference in economies is significant. 

[+ sniper]

On 3/31/2024 at 10:06 AM, pubic_assistance said:

That was the interesting thing about our houseboy. In Vietnam his parents had a staff of FOUR and yet with their money they couldn't afford to house their son while he was in college. The difference in economies is significant. 

Yeah saw that a lot at my pricy college that had need-blind admissions and met 100% of need for all students foreign or domestic. Dude who had servants at home in Pakistan and always dressed to the nines got practically a free ride to college because of the exchange rate.

[MscleLovr]

Intriguing topic.

Some 15 years ago, I had a long drive in a taxi from the airport in Melbourne, Australia. The middle-aged Australian driver chatted to me about how he lived mainly in Vietnam but ‘commuted’ to Melbourne for work. He said he returned every 4 months to work for 2 months or so. He added that he made enough money in his time in Australia to live very well in Vietnam. 

[BSR]

When an aunt & uncle lived in Queens, money was always tight even though they had decent pensions plus rental income.  They dreamed of traveling, fine dining, and playing golf in retirement but couldn't afford to do much of anything.

After much deliberation (they had lived in the US for 30+ years), they decided to move back to the Philippines.  After they sold their house, they had enough to buy a luxury hi-rise condo in a posh Manila neighborhood, with a nice chunk of change left over.  They sold the Queens rentals & bought units in Florida to save on taxes.

Note that measured by GDP per capita, the Philippines is even poorer than Vietnam ($12,192 Philippines vs. $15,470 Vietnam, $85,373 in US btw).  Now I tease my aunt & uncle that they live like the Marcoses:  constantly traveling, eating out in Manila's finest restaurants, not lifting a finger (a live-in does all the cooking & cleaning).  The only catch is my uncle still doesn't play golf, but only because of the heat & humidity (he's OK with it).

They encourage me to do the same, but I'm not sure I could take the adjustment.  Since we left the Philippines when I was just 4, I'm basically 100% American, and one big aspect of Filipino culture is so frustrating it makes my head explode.  But who knows, my aunt & uncle never saw themselves moving back either.

I wonder how long the guy in the video plans to stay in Vietnam.  I think it would be great to do for a year or so, especially if you work remotely & make an American salary but pay a Vietnamese cost of living.  But after a while, I'd want to either find a new adventure or move back stateside.

Edited May 12 by BSR
Typo

[MscleLovr]

6 hours ago, BSR said:

one big aspect of Filipino culture is so frustrating

May I ask what aspect that is? And why do you find it troublesome?

[BSR]

3 hours ago, MscleLovr said:

May I ask what aspect that is? And why do you find it troublesome?

Filipinos suffer from a pathological fear of any and all confrontation, even the mildest and most minor.  For example, if you schedule a handyman to make a repair but something comes up such that he can't make it, he will never call or even text you because of this Filipino dread of confrontation.  He just won't show up while you're left wondering what happened.  He won't respond to any voicemails or texts.  If you run into him and try to ask what happened, instead of a quick apology & explanation, he'll flee like you're a serial killer. 

I wish I were exaggerating, but that's actually how Filipinos are.  Bad enough with the handyman, now imagine every single acquaintance, coworker, neighbor, friend, and family member suffering from this same fear of confrontation.  Nothing is ever resolved, nothing is ever talked about, everything just gets buried.  Or worse, suppressed -- resentment, hurt feelings, anger, all of it. 

Filipinos think that's normal, but as an American, it makes my head explode.  Even my aunt & uncle, who were born & raised in the Philippines, had a tough time re-adjusting.  As much as I do sometimes envy my aunt & uncle's "newfound wealth," I know I could never put up with it.

Edited May 12 by BSR
Wording

[BSR]

On 3/31/2024 at 6:36 AM, KeepItReal said:

Interesting- thanks for posting it. He left out a number of large expenses like insurance and health care for us old folks. 🫣 Cost of a couple of houseboys (of course!) should also be considered! 😉

Getting back to the original post, yes, neglecting to mention insurance & healthcare was a glaring omission, at least for those of us of a certain age.  I'm guessing that the obviously fit young man has never needed to see a doctor during his time in Da Nang.

Edited May 12 by BSR
Wording

[handiacefailure]

On 5/12/2024 at 2:43 PM, BSR said:

Getting back to the original post, yes, neglecting to mention insurance & healthcare was a glaring omission, at least for those of us of a certain age.  I'm guessing that the obviously fit young man has never needed to see a doctor during his time in Da Nang.

Maybe health care is cheap there, even without insurance.    I was in Peru recently and ended up walking up almost blind in my right eye and called my neighbor who is an MD and he said to get my ass on the next flight home and go straight to the ER.   He is an ortho surgeon, but said it sounded like a detached retina which surgery in a week was crucial or possible an eye stroke.   

When I went to the front desk and explained I was flying home that night and the reason, I asked if they would shorten the hotel stay and not penalize me.    This was a staurday morning and was flying on a red eye and the front desk clerk said they may be able to get me into an opthomologist but since it was a Saturday and I wasn't a Peru citizen, I'd have to pay out of pocket and it would be crazy expensive.   I was flying home anyway but figured what was crazy expensive in Peru might not be that much to a US citizen and I figured maybe they could call my eye doctor.

 

About a half hour later she told me she could only find one opthamologist that could get me in on a Saturday that spoke fluent English and he was 20 miles outside of Lima, so I just told her I would wait to get back home.   She said it was probably a good thing, because his rates were crazy expensive and she was embarrased by how much they charge.    I asked how much out of courosety and she said $100SOL (about $30 US) and I started to laugh and she thought I was laughing at how expensive it was and I told her in the US you probably wouldn't even find a Opthamologist that is working on weekends, and there is no way you would pay that little even without insurance.

I know someone whose brother and sister-in-law were in Lima seven years ago and she was in her second trimester and had to have an emergency appendix removal while they were there.  I'm sure the surgery was a little more complicated with her being pregnant and she had to spend four nights in the hospital and it ended up costing them just a little under $1K for the hospital and surgery.  

If medical expenses are that cheap, I'd be happy paying out of pocket.   Really wish I would have kept up with my Spanish when I was younger.   The weather in Peru is like San Diego, it's right on the Ocean and you get get a nice apartment for around $500USD

 

[BSR]

On 5/21/2024 at 11:21 AM, handiacefailure said:

If medical expenses are that cheap, I'd be happy paying out of pocket.   Really wish I would have kept up with my Spanish when I was younger.   The weather in Peru is like San Diego, it's right on the Ocean and you get get a nice apartment for around $500USD

If you're seriously interested in retiring in Peru, language isn't much of a barrier.  A bit of googling showed a number of Spanish language schools in Lima, at least one of which has a DELE-certified teaching staff (DELE = Diplomas of Spanish as a Foreign Language, the internationally recognized certification of Spanish language level).  You'd be surprised by how quickly your Spanish becomes good enough to get by day-to-day.  Of course, fluency will take longer, but rest assured that DELE-certified teachers will help you get there.

Skimming over the American expat's other videos, I gather that he has a Vietnamese-American girlfriend (gay4pay? *fingerscrossed*).  Apparently he knows a little Vietnamese, and then he always has his girlfriend to translate if necessary. 

Plenty of expats are just fine living the rest of their lives knowing only enough to get by in the local language.  I couldn't do it because I'd eventually feel too isolated.  But if you're OK with it, you certainly have plenty of options for countries to retire in.

[+ JamesB]

I don't have experience living in Vietnam, but I've been living part-time in Panama for the last 16 years. During this time, I've seen many expats, particularly from the USA and Canada, come and go. They usually stay for 1-2 years before returning home. There are various reasons for this, and here are the most common ones from my perspective:

While it is true that you can live in Panama for about $1,500 a month, this is not comparable to Western standards. Many expats move here thinking it will be like living in Florida for a fraction of the price, but they quickly realize this is not the case. 

For reasons I have never understood, most expats from the USA and Canada are unable or unwilling to learn the language. This leads to feelings of isolation and frustration when dealing with everyday issues. 

Healthcare is another major reason. If you are over 60, it is almost impossible to get health insurance. If you are younger, you can get coverage, but not for any pre-existing conditions. While you can pay out of pocket for most healthcare needs, a major health issue will likely require returning home, trust me on this one.

Additionally, adapting to the local culture can be challenging. Many expats expect things to work the same way and within the same timeframe as they do back home. This is not the case, and adjusting to the new culture requires time and understanding.

Of course, there are other reasons as well, but in my opinion, these account for about 80-90% of the cases.

[+ WilliamM]

On 3/30/2024 at 1:25 PM, marylander1940 said:

Op note: Is he available ? 

Actually this is a serious subject!

 

 

I spent a year in Vietnam Dreading  the heat and then the rainy season.

 

Good luck though 

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

On 5/26/2024 at 8:56 AM, JamesB said:

For reasons I have never understood, most expats from the USA and Canada are unable or unwilling to learn the language. This leads to feelings of isolation and frustration when dealing with everyday issues. 

This is also a HUGE issue for expats who live in Mexico.  They can't or won't learn to read/write Spanish.

To me, it's an incredibly (entitled, funny, odd) American behavior to expect the entire world to speak English.  

I'm currently beginning the process of looking at real estate in CDMX, both as an immediate turnkey investment, but also as a long term move-to option.  Mexico makes residency pretty easy and I've been a fluent Spanish speaker for years.  

Living on $1k/mo in Mexico City would be doable, but you'd need to pick your battles.  The average lower income worker takes home about $500/month and it's enough to let them and their family live a low-middle class life (inclusive of housing, food, clothing, etc).

No matter where you move, I suggest making sure you can communicate and thrive.  Don't just move somewhere because it's cheap.

[MikeThomas]

I had a vacation home in PV for around 7 years.  Got to know a lot of expat Americans and Canadians who lived there full time.  Even in the summer.  Most of them didn't have health insurance.  It was a big problem when they got sick.  The local hospitals don't offer the "locals" rate to the expats.

[+ nycman]

58 minutes ago, MikeThomas said:

The local hospitals don't offer the "locals" rate to the expats.

Nor should they.

I think it’s amazing when people think they can just move into community and be treated like a "local".

That’s not how it works. 

[BSR]

1 hour ago, BenjaminNicholas said:

To me, it's an incredibly (entitled, funny, odd) American behavior to expect the entire world to speak English.  

It's not just American.  I met a group of Brits who had retired in Marbella but none of them had even a basic level in Spanish.  Their social circles are all fellow Brits or Europeans who speak excellent English.  All the locals they deal with speak English, and for the occasional situation when that's not the case, it's easy & cheap to hire a translator.  This group I ran into is hardly the exception on Spain's Mediterranean coast, where plenty of expats have established English-speaking communities.

It goes beyond the anglosphere as well.  Plenty of long-time US residents do not speak English at a functional level.  That's why the California driver's exam can be taken in 32 different languages.

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

2 hours ago, BenjaminNicholas said:

This is also a HUGE issue for expats who live in Mexico.  They can't or won't learn to read/write Spanish.

To me, it's an incredibly (entitled, funny, odd) American behavior to expect the entire world to speak English.  

This is quite a common phenomenon everywhere.  Just look at the throngs of immigrants in the United States who still won't speak English, even after they gain citizenship and are eligible to vote!

It just goes to show that despite the preaching of the benefits of diversity, it is human nature to want to be surrounded by people that have the same language and culture as yourself.

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

1 hour ago, Vegas_Millennial said:

This is quite a common phenomenon everywhere.  Just look at the throngs of immigrants in the United States who still won't speak English, even after they gain citizenship and are eligible to vote!

It just goes to show that despite the preaching of the benefits of diversity, it is human nature to want to be surrounded by people that have the same language and culture as yourself.

We really don't need to turn this into a political-slanted discussion.

PLENTY of immigrants come to this country and learn the language well...  My friends and extended family included.  

For me personally, I'm equally as comfortable within the box of my own culture as I am somewhere totally foreign.

Edited Wednesday at 04:40 AM by BenjaminNicholas

[BSR]

33 minutes ago, BenjaminNicholas said:

You really didn't need to turn this into a political-slanted discussion.

PLENTY of immigrants come to this country and learn the language well.  Many of my friends and extended family included.  

And it's not human nature to surround yourself with people 'just like you.'  To me, that's mildly sociopathic.

I think @Vegas_Millennial's comments were more sociological than political, and for what it's worth, I agree with him.  People's social circles aren't necessarily composed of people exactly like them, but far more often than not, one's friends are at least similar. 

Rich people have rich friends.  If you asked the Fortune 400 how many of them have a friend on food stamps, I'd bet my bottom dollar that number is zero (OK, maybe 1, always an exception).  Jocks hang out with jocks, artists hang out with artists, musicians with musicians, and (as I can attest) Filipinos hang out with Filipinos, even those who speak perfect English and have been in the US for decades tend to have mostly Filipino friends.  If you're completely closed off to associating with someone different from yourself, I agree that's an unhealthy attitude, but jocks with jocks & musicians with musicians is just human nature.

Of course, plenty of immigrants learn and even master English, but a certain percentage does not.  Sometimes that's age -- English proficiency for citizenship is waived for 65+.  Sometimes it's because between working full time (sometimes 2-3 jobs) and raising kids and taking care of a house, an immigrant just doesn't have the time & energy. 

And in some cases, they simply don't want to.  A friend who runs an immigrant-services nonprofit says a lot of immigrants didn't really want to come here but did anyway because they feared they would literally die in their home country.  Since they have every intention of returning, even some who have spent a decade+ in the US, they don't really want to learn English because to them that would be admitting that their dream of returning to their home country will never happen.

The exact number of immigrants who don't speak English is difficult to pin down because immigrants who don't speak English are often too embarrassed to admit it nor will they respond to a survey in an unfamiliar language.  But with a bit of googling, I found that 8.3% of US residents lack proficiency in English (hard data from the US Census), and 1-3% lack even basic knowledge (an estimate based on US Census data because getting an exact number is impossible).  Small percentages but millions of immigrants.  Hey, there's a reason California prints voting ballots in 30+ languages.

[Kevin Slater]

Moderator's note: Let's get back to personal finances.

Kevin Slater