Is going to college still worth it?

[+ Charlie]

17 minutes ago, BSR said:

I think it all boils down to whether you learn critical thinking in college, or not.  Kids who learn what to think are useless.  But kids who learn how to think will be able to adapt their critical thinking skills to many fields and many different career paths.  Unfortunately, universities today are churning out way too many of the former and precious few of the latter.

I think that has probably always been true of "higher education," not just today.

[+ purplekow]

19 minutes ago, BSR said:

I think it all boils down to whether you learn critical thinking in college, or not.  Kids who learn what to think are useless.  But kids who learn how to think will be able to adapt their critical thinking skills to many fields and many different career paths.  Unfortunately, universities today are churning out way too many of the former and precious few of the latter.

I read through this thread and little was said about actually getting an education and lots was said about getting a job.  This pivoting of the university experience has been its downfall.  Yes there needs to be directed education toward certain careers but a broad based education which helps you develop lifetime interests and  inquisitiveness needs to part and parcel of a college education.  College should be for developing the person as well as the professional.  

[BSR]

3 minutes ago, Charlie said:

I think that has probably always been true of "higher education," not just today.

Maybe so, but I think the percentage of brainwashed parrots has metastasized in the last decade or so.  At the poker tables recently, a young college graduate kept talking about diversity, how great it is, how important it is, etc.  But when I asked him why diversity mattered so much, he had no response.  Lacking any semblance of a cogent argument, he defended his position by acting offended that I could question something as "crucial" as diversity.  No one had ever challenged this kid, nor had he ever questioned a single thing taught to him.  Sadly, he's just one of millions.

[+ Charlie]

Many people go to college because they want to learn what to think, not how to think. Critical thinkers are the exception rather than the rule in most societies, including educational institutions.

[+ purplekow]

20 minutes ago, BSR said:

Maybe so, but I think the percentage of brainwashed parrots has metastasized in the last decade or so.  At the poker tables recently, a young college graduate kept talking about diversity, how great it is, how important it is, etc.  But when I asked him why diversity mattered so much, he had no response.  Lacking any semblance of a cogent argument, he defended his position by acting offended that I could question something as "crucial" as diversity.  No one had ever challenged this kid, nor had he ever questioned a single thing taught to him.  Sadly, he's just one of millions.

Big jump from lacking an answer to never been challenged and unquestioning.  My poker table discussion rarely, dare I say never,  have any depth, perhaps he realized that the felt may not be the place to have this conversation.  

[BSR]

54 minutes ago, purplekow said:

Big jump from lacking an answer to never been challenged and unquestioning.  My poker table discussion rarely, dare I say never,  have any depth, perhaps he realized that the felt may not be the place to have this conversation.  

From the deer-in-the-headlights look on his face, I'm pretty sure he had never gotten any pushback on the all-importance of diversity, whether at a poker table or any other setting.  In any case, I wouldn't hire this abject dumbsh*t to sharpen pencils, nor should anyone else.

Edited April 6, 2024 by BSR
Added a sentence

[marylander1940]

On 4/5/2024 at 8:42 PM, BSR said:

From the deer-in-the-headlights look on his face, I'm pretty sure he had never gotten any pushback on the all-importance of diversity, whether at a poker table or any other setting.  In any case, I wouldn't hire this abject dumbsh*t to sharpen pencils, nor should anyone else.

Diversity matters and as an Irish Catholic I've benefited myself from being accepted in places my parents weren't allowed because they lacked the proper birthright.

Unfortunately, or fortunately, some have been born at a time when they think nobody has negative generalizations about them based in their background, looks, body type, etc. Sad but true, we still value people on how they look. 

Back to subject socializing (getting laid included) is also an important reason to go to college and a fast way to become independent from parents, family, etc. 

[+ WilliamM]

1 hour ago, marylander1940 said:

Diversity matters and as an Irish Catholic I've benefited myself from being accepted in places my parents weren't allowed because they lacked the proper birthright.

Unfortunately, or fortunately, some have been born at a time when they think nobody has negative generalizations about them based in their background, looks, body type, etc. Sad but true, we still value people on how they look. 

Back to subject socializing (getting laid included) is also an important reason to go to college and a fast way to become independent from parents, family, etc. 

I attended a Catholic college (Boston College) even though I was Scottish and Catholic.

Y best friend in college's dad gratituded Boston College Law School, but could not get a job because he was Irish.

He finally got a job with Joseph Kennedy, JFK's dad

[marylander1940]

On 4/5/2024 at 7:44 PM, BSR said:

Maybe so, but I think the percentage of brainwashed parrots has metastasized in the last decade or so.  At the poker tables recently, a young college graduate kept talking about diversity, how great it is, how important it is, etc.  But when I asked him why diversity mattered so much, he had no response.  Lacking any semblance of a cogent argument, he defended his position by acting offended that I could question something as "crucial" as diversity.  No one had ever challenged this kid, nor had he ever questioned a single thing taught to him.  Sadly, he's just one of millions.

The two of you were chatting while playing poker? I thought it required some math and concentration. I would take with a grain of salt what people say during small talk with strangers they'll never see again.

Was he white? Maybe diversity for him meant being seated at the same table with people of different ethnicity, background, gender, sexual preference, body type, etc. A friend also pointed at me lately that the "fat acceptance" movement is the next step when it comes to accepting others as equal. 

Let's take your word as valid and accept he was speechless when you asked about the importance of "diversity", possibly he was shocked about you asking that question and he simply thinks he's lucky to live in a day and age where there's no legal segregation based in ethnicity or religion.  

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

8 hours ago, marylander1940 said:

Back to subject socializing (getting laid included) is also an important reason to go to college and a fast way to become independent from parents, family, etc. 

If that is the reason for college, then I argue the tuition money would be better spent on hookers.

I had no time to socialize in college.  I worked a part-time job, took a full load of engineering classes, and spent every waking hour doing homework or commuting to work/class from my parents' house where I lived.  I graduated with a useful STEM degree, work experience, and no debt.  I began to socialize when I was finished with college and had time for recreational activities, and a full time job to afford to move away from Mom and Dad.

Edited April 15, 2024 by Vegas_Millennial

[marylander1940]

 

Many in Gen Z ditch colleges for trade schools. Meet the 'toolbelt generation'

WWW.NPR.ORG

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With demand for jobs like HVAC technicians, electricians and wind turbine installers, enrollment is ticking up at vocational schools as four-year college costs continue to...

Toolbelt generation! I love the name but I don't think most folks nowadays have the attention span to work with tools...

Edited April 23, 2024 by marylander1940

[TonyDown]

I was accepted at a very competitive state school where the curriculum was difficult no matter which course.

I received good grades, and got a BS in engineering that opened doors for me.

My college education is directly applicable to my work 

I was able to pay off my loans relatively soon.

So yeah, it was worth it.

Knowing how tuition has gone up definitely changes the conversation.  No argument there.

 

 

[marylander1940]

USC cost of attendance nears $100,000 

WWW.NBCLOSANGELES.COM

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The University of Southern California on Wednesday hiked tuition by more than $3,000 for the upcoming academic year, pushing the total cost of attendance to nearly...

I just saw this n CNN and I'm not surprised. Unless you have a scholarship, I would suggest going to a cheaper college to get the same education without the financial burden 

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

Yesterday, I had the opportunity to talk with two young men who were cleaning the air ducts in my house (a service that I have done every four years).  Both were attending community college full-time:  one studying accounting, and the other electrical engineering.  These two young men have it figured out:  Go to school at the cheapest accredited school available, work your way through college, and graduate with a degree, life experience, and no debt.

[BSR]

1 hour ago, Vegas_Millennial said:

Yesterday, I had the opportunity to talk with two young men who were cleaning the air ducts in my house …

This intro had “gay Penthouse Forum letter” written all over it … *sigh* … a bit disappointing but yeah, it would have been terribly off-topic.

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

20 hours ago, BSR said:

This intro had “gay Penthouse Forum letter” written all over it … *sigh* … a bit disappointing but yeah, it would have been terribly off-topic.

Speak for yourself...I find financial literacy and a go-getter attitude very sexy 😉 

[rvwnsd]

22 hours ago, Vegas_Millennial said:

Yesterday, I had the opportunity to talk with two young men who were cleaning the air ducts in my house (a service that I have done every four years).  Both were attending community college full-time:  one studying accounting, and the other electrical engineering.  These two young men have it figured out:  Go to school at the cheapest accredited school available, work your way through college, and graduate with a degree, life experience, and no debt.

You're right - these guys have it figured out!

My nephew is a smart guy and decided to attend community college for the first couple of years. The local community college has a stellar reputation locally (as do most community colleges in the Chicago area) and he got his basic courses out of the way there. He also worked for the same company as my brother. He decided to go into Marketing and attend a four-year university (Northern Illinois University). He has told me he would not be doing as well as he is nor would he have been as motivated as he is had he not worked/gone to community college. He's 23 (OMG!) and will likely graduate when he's 24 or 25. When he does, he will have the benefit of experience, education, AND having learned something.

PS: good on you for cleaning the air ducts. If you don't do it already, have your dryer vent cleaned. also. You will thank me later.

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

Just now, rvwnsd said:

You're right - these guys have it figured out!

My nephew is a smart guy and decided to attend community college for the first couple of years. The local community college has a stellar reputation locally (as do most community colleges in the Chicago area) and he got his basic courses out of the way there. He also worked for the same company as my brother. He decided to go into Marketing and attend a four-year university (Northern Illinois University). He has told me he would not be doing as well as he is nor would he have been as motivated as he is had he not worked/gone to community college. He's 23 (OMG!) and will likely graduate when he's 24 or 25. When he does, he will have the benefit of experience, education, AND having learned something.

PS: good on you for cleaning the air ducts. If you don't do it already, have your dryer vent cleaned. also. You will thank me later.

Congratulations to your nephew!  And yes, I get my dryer vent and bathroom exhaust fans cleaned at the same time as my HVAC ducts.  Most of the dust comes from the dryer vent duct, followed by the bathroom exhaust fans ducts.  The HVAC ducts stay pretty clean (I have no pets, and I have good electrostatic air filters).  I know people whose house caught fire from overheated bathroom exhaust fans.  So, not only do I have their ducts cleaned every 4 years, I replace all the exhaust fans and smoke detectors in my house every 12 years.

[rvwnsd]

1 minute ago, Vegas_Millennial said:

Congratulations to your nephew!  

Thank you. We are all very proud of him. He hatched this plan on his own. He did ask me for my opinion before he discussed it with his parents, who then asked me for my opinion. LOL

Oh, yeah - replacing smoke detectors and bathroom fans is an excellent idea. I have two cats (and have always had two cats, albeit different ones of course) and use the top-of-the-line air filters and have air purifiers. Funny, but the filters never have much cat hair (they are shorthair and I brush them) but there's a plethora of dust thanks to Phoenix being in the desert.

Speaking of Phoenix, downtown Phoenix (where my home is located) has become a center of medical research and medical schools. ASU's med school is going up across the street from me and UofA has had a biomedical and (I think) cardiac research center down the street for ~10 years. Banner/University Medical Center (about a mile away) is one of UofA's teaching hospitals. Apparently, ASU is becoming a top research institution. Probably one third of my neighbors are ASU grad students, many of which attend ASU because it is a great school and is a good value.

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

14 minutes ago, rvwnsd said:

Thank you. We are all very proud of him. He hatched this plan on his own. He did ask me for my opinion before he discussed it with his parents, who then asked me for my opinion. LOL

Love this!

[+ sniper]

On 4/5/2024 at 7:31 PM, Charlie said:

I think that has probably always been true of "higher education," not just today.

The reality is most people aren't all that smart. Even "smart people" aren't all that smart. A lot of people have a particular niche and are good at that. And for most people who go on about "critical thinking," what they really mean by that is "comes to the same conclusions as I do." (And I find that to be the case regardless of where that person falls on the politicial spectrum.) 

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

21 hours ago, sniper said:

The reality is most people aren't all that smart. Even "smart people" aren't all that smart. A lot of people have a particular niche and are good at that. And for most people who go on about "critical thinking," what they really mean by that is "comes to the same conclusions as I do." (And I find that to be the case regardless of where that person falls on the politicial spectrum.) 

I agree.  I am very grateful for my college education.  Entering university, I was very good at mathematics.  I studied civil engineering which had lots of classes in math, physics, technical writing, chemistry, geology, economics, etc.  While my education in my specialty has paid dividends for my career, I am very grateful for my elective courses which introduced me to sociology, music appreciation, and a better understanding of early Western cultures and literature. 

A good university education should be deep in one subject to help a student hone his craft, and yet broad enough so he is exposed to subjects outside of his expertise.

Edited April 9 by Vegas_Millennial
Spelling

[marylander1940]

3,9 million graduating this year!