+ nycman Posted February 15 Posted February 15 4 hours ago, Frequentflier said: So two objectives perhaps? 1) have enough money to buy a house or condo without a mortgage so you don't have to pay exhorbitant insurance rates and for a condo can pay the special assessments and 2) if a condo buy at a high level so your home never ends up in the basement as the building sinks. Or 3) just don’t buy property in the swamp formerly known as Florida. mike carey, thomas, marylander1940 and 1 other 2 2
samhexum Posted March 1 Posted March 1 Inside Florida’s brewing condo crisis as property values drop in once-coveted retirement haven A slow-motion crisis is unfolding in Florida’s condo market, threatening to upend the state’s image as a haven for retirees and reasonably priced beach living. Owners of the state’s older condos are bracing for steep special assessments, while racing to sell their homes and receiving only tepid buyer response. Amid a property market that’s still vibrant for nearly every other segment, Florida’s aging condominiums are losing value. And nearly 1,400 buildings are now blacklisted from receiving mortgage financing, making those apartments an even-tougher sell. At the heart of this turmoil is a basic reality: Florida’s aging condo buildings desperately need repairs, and state officials are forcing them to assess (and pay for) those long-overdue upgrades. Under a law enacted after the tragic 2021 collapse of Champlain Towers South in Surfside, which saw 98 people lose their lives, condo boards may no longer defer major structural improvements to another day — or decade. The “Building Safety Act” required every condo tower in Florida aged 30 years or older to complete a structural integrity study by the end of 2024, to get a full grasp of what problems need fixing. This year, the tab for those repairs comes due. Condo boards must now set aside funds to fix the issues found in those studies — from concrete restoration to balcony overhauls. And the assessments on individual condo owners are looking both pricey and unsettling. “You’re going to see a massive reduction in the value of these buildings based on these giant special assessments and the work that has to be done,” said Orest Tomaselli, CEO of Strategic Inspections, which advises condo boards nationally on how to shore up their reserves. In Florida buildings he’s worked with, Tomaselli has seen special assessments as low as $250 per month, to a property that levied $2,500 per month, per unit owner, for a three-year stretch. “There are real people in these units that may be displaced,” Tomaselli said of the assessments, “that may lose their nest egg and may lose tremendous amounts of value in their units.” At Aventura’s Mediterranean Village, a waterfront condo complex with a marina out front, unit owners were hit with six-figure special assessments last year, some as high as $400,000, according to published reports. At Miami’s Cricket Club, a 50-year-old waterfront tower burdened with $134,000 special assessments per condo, 23 of the building’s 217 condos are currently for sale, according to brokerage Compass. In a Miami market where the median condo price was $445,000 in the fourth quarter of last year, condos at the Cricket Club are seeking buyers with prices as low as $220,000 for a 1,950-square-foot two-bedroom on the 19th floor. (The owner initially sought $330,000). Meanwhile, at Summit Towers in Hollywood, a building-wide special assessment of $56 million led to the ousting of four board members in a January election, in favor of new members who promised “a more moderate approach” to building up reserves, said Amy Greenberg, a broker and resident of the building with several listings there. “A lot of people moved here to be able to retire and live their life here, and they’re on fixed incomes,” said Kathleen DiBona, a 50-year resident of Hollywood who serves as president of the Hollywood Beach Civic Association. “They’re having a difficult time being able to manage all that’s coming and hitting them.” Many owners whom DiBona knows in Hollywood, a city dotted with older towers, are seeking to off-load units with little success. Others, she said, have dropped insurance coverage for their condos so they can manage to pay their special assessments. Failure to pay these assessments will impact more than just the individual owners who can’t afford them. If 15% of unit owners in a building default, the entire property could become ineligible for mortgage financing, according to Tomaselli of Strategic Inspections. “What happens if nobody can get a loan to buy a unit in your building?” says Joseph Hernandez, a Miami-based partner in the real estate group of law firm Bilzin Sumberg. “It essentially makes the units in your building unsaleable and it makes the value of those units go down. “We may see a lot of condo projects go into distress.” Some could already be getting close. In February, Fannie Mae, the national mortgage finance agency, updated its running list of “unavailable” US condo buildings, meaning they are no longer eligible for mortgage financing. Of the 4,885 buildings currently on the list, 29% are located in Florida, the highest share of any state. The top reason: “critical repairs or deferred maintenance,” according to a person familiar with the roster. One newly flagged example is 4000 Island Blvd., a 32-story condominium in Aventura’s exclusive Williams Island, which was built in 1985 and added to Fannie Mae’s no-lending list in January. At least 24 unit owners are trying to sell, according to Compass. Barry Sytner, the condo board’s president, called the building’s inclusion on Fannie Mae’s list “incorrect,” noting that the property just secured a bank loan commitment to cover expenses tied to its 40-year inspection. There are roughly 1.1 million condo units in Florida that are 30 years old or more, and subject to the new law, according to the Florida Policy Project. Of those, 58% are concentrated along the Southwest and Southeast coastal counties, in places like Tampa, Clearwater and the greater Miami metro area, including Fort Lauderdale and Palm Beach County. That means the law’s reach extends to more than half of all condo owners in Florida’s famed retirement enclaves. According to brokerage ISG World, apartments that are over 30 years old accounted for 86% of all Southeast Florida condo listings in the fourth quarter of 2024 — a total of 17,198 properties for sale across Miami-Dade, Broward and Palm Beach counties. Yet even as thousands of newcomers flock to the region, these abundant and discounted units are languishing on the market, weighed down by the threat of special assessments and uncertainty over looming repair costs. “The fear of the unknown is scaring the hell out of potential buyers,” said Craig Studnicky, ISG’s chief executive officer. “Remember that show, ‘Let’s Make a Deal?’ ” Studnicky said. “They may get a special assessment and it could be quite modest, which means you just made one hell of a deal. But what if you’re wrong, and the special assessment is gargantuan? Not only is the special assessment big, but the scope of construction is big, and you’re going to be living in a construction site for the next two years.” The full extent of special assessments is still an open question for many Florida properties. While the state deadline for condos to submit their structural integrity studies was on Dec. 31, only 39% of buildings in Southeast Florida have done so, according to the Miami Association of Realtors. Some of that’s because engineers were simply not available, amid a statewide rush to get these studies completed. Others could be gambling that enforcement won’t be robust or swift, said Peter Zalewski, a Miami-based broker, analyst and condo investment consultant. “You have buildings that are shopping for studies, because maybe they’re coming in too high, and maybe they can find someone who can lowball it,” Zalewski said. “People are figuring out what to do,” Zalewski added. “They think there will be a silver bullet, some kind of cure in the upcoming Florida legislative session” amid outcry from condo owners The state legislature, which convenes its 2025 session March 4, has no plans to bail out condos or offer reprieve from the deadlines to fund repairs, Florida legislative leaders said at a condo conference last month held by Miami Realtors, according to Homes.com. Lawmakers, however, might consider financing solutions to help condos cover the cost of structural studies and maintenance, including allowing reserve funds they set aside to be invested. Despite some maintenance challenges, Florida’s older condos still reflect the only affordable opportunity at homeownership for those who can’t swing the price tags of Miami’s new crop of ultra-luxury developments, says Scott Diffenderfer, a Miami-Beach-based broker for Compass who specializes in sales of older units. He says he’s pretty upfront with potential buyers these days about the scope and costs of repair that some of his listings will undergo. Brokers view the new regulations and mandatory repairs as a necessary correction to Florida’s once-lax condo standards, Diffenderfer explained. Previously, buyers had little insight into a building’s true condition — much like purchasing a used car without a Carfax report. Now, with stricter enforcement requiring proper reserves and full disclosure of maintenance history, brokers say the condo market could become more transparent and ultimately unlock greater value for owners. “For probably 75% of the buildings in South Florida, when the dust settles, people are going to say, ‘You know what? That was painful. But look at these buildings!’ ” Studnicky said. “They’re in great shape.” Oshrat Carmiel is the publisher of Highest & Best, a newsletter on South Florida real estate and wealth migration, and a former real estate reporter for Bloomberg News. Inside Florida's brewing condo crisis as property values drop in... NYPOST.COM New assessments are making Florida condos harder to sell. Lotus-eater and + augustus 2
BSR Posted March 2 Posted March 2 Just for some context: Lehman Brothers collapsed in September 2008 yet the Manhattan real estate market didn’t hit bottom until March 2012, a full 3y6m later. Getting sellers to reduce their price is kinda like pulling teeth, except molars are less stubborn. Some sellers won’t have a choice. With crushing increases in HOAs, homeowners, property taxes, not to mention wrecking-ball special assessments, some owners will be forced to sell at the market price, not their starry-eyed optimist price. But the sellers who aren’t facing imminent financial pressure will maintain a death grip on their way-too-high listing price, because that’s human nature. Trying to convince them that the peak prices of Spring 2022 are ancient history is like trying to convince Norma Desmond that there’s no comeback in store. In other words, yes, there will be/already is a crash. But that doesn’t mean that listing prices drop all at once, far from it. + augustus and samhexum 2
+ nycman Posted March 2 Posted March 2 5 minutes ago, BSR said: Some sellers won’t have a choice. So true. If I owned Florida real estate I’d be slashing my asking price and trying to get my money out of there like mad. Maybe it’s not the $$$ you thought it was worth, but it’s better than the $ you’re going to get in 2-3 years. Unfortunately, I’m not sure where I’d park that money in today’s world. Nothing really feels "safe". + augustus and BSR 1 1
+ BenjaminNicholas Posted March 2 Posted March 2 (edited) So many owners in the shitter on this are those who wanted to buy ultra-cheap condos and worry about the details later, thinking that day would never come. Doesn't work that way. Cheap is never cheap long term, especially in real estate. I was lucky to get property in a place like Key West, where values just keep going up. That said, it's also increasingly more expensive to keep it around. Taxes, insurance, daily costs. It's never getting cheaper. The silver lining is that the capital gains far outweigh those costs. For now. Edited March 2 by BenjaminNicholas samhexum and + Vegas_Millennial 1 1
MikeThomas Posted March 2 Posted March 2 I hear a lot of Canadians are wanting out. The collapse of the Canadian dollar has made HOA fees, special assessments, property taxes and other expenses very expensive. samhexum, BSR, marylander1940 and 1 other 2 2
KeepItReal Posted April 6 Posted April 6 Still hearing from my realtor friends in Florida that inventory keeps rising - there just aren't buyers lining up. Builders are now offering 0% down (where Lennar to name one, pays the 3% down-payment so you can qualify for the loan). To add to this, was helping a realtor buddy on the West coast with his taxes this weekend and he mentioned the same trend in Arizona and Las Vegas. Prices did not rise nearly as much as Florida did since Covid, but still, no buyers and inventory is rising steadily. LV inventory is up almost 60% when compared year over year even though average listing has dropped asking price twice and is down 10% from original asking. Particularly bad in southern (eg Henderson and Enterprise) neighborhoods. Flippers are again freaking out like they did in 2008. + augustus 1
d.anders Posted April 7 Posted April 7 There are many recent videos on YouTube featuring Florida real estate agents in a complete panic. Prices are dropping like crazy and inventory is endless. Many people can't get home-owners insurance, while others can't afford the insane cost. A lot of people have had it with the hurricanes. I have wealthy friends who are building a home there, and they say the panic exists among the middle-class market only. IME, Florida has always been an up-and-down market. With the planet getting warmer, the future of Florida does not look good. EZEtoGRU, marylander1940 and + augustus 2 1
marylander1940 Posted April 26 Author Posted April 26 Why Florida condo owners are scrambling to sell — and why it's... NYPOST.COM A wave of financial strain is sweeping through Florida’s condominium market, pushing owners to the breaking point and flooding the state with for-sale signs. Why buying property when the HOA fee is almost like paying rent on top of mortgage? When will this hit bottom?
+ Vegas_Millennial Posted April 26 Posted April 26 (edited) 4 hours ago, marylander1940 said: Why buying property when the HOA fee is almost like paying rent on top of mortgage? When I was considering my first home purchase, I was looking at a high rise condo. I balked at the $700/month HOA and bought a single family home instead. Now that I've owned a single family home, I look back and think that $700/month HOA was quite a good deal when I consider all the other monthly expenses of homeownership. If I lived in that high rise condo, the HOA fee would have included property taxes, insurance, security, all utilities except electricity and Internet, a gym, and a pool. Plus I wouldn't be responsible for landscape maintenance, roof repairs, exterior painting, and the like. Life isn't free... We're going to pay for it one way or another. Own a property outright and pay the maintenance yourself... Or own a condo and pay the maintenance monthly. Just be sure you have good management who doesn't put off repairs. As for the Florida condos in the headlines, most are near the beach. You're paying not for a place to live, but a place to live within walking distance to the beach. That's always going to be expensive. Even a condo with an HOA fee as high as its mortgage payment would still be the lowest cost way to live in that proximity to the beach. Few have the multi-millions necessary to own a single family home near the beach; and, if they did, they would still be responsible for ongoing property tax and maintenance issues. Condos even with a high HOA are still the only every level into beach front living. Edited April 26 by Vegas_Millennial + augustus and Lotus-eater 1 1
marylander1940 Posted April 26 Author Posted April 26 17 minutes ago, Vegas_Millennial said: When I was considering my first home purchase, I was looking at a high rise condo. I balked at the $700/month HOA and bought a single family home instead. Now that I've owned a single family home, I look back and think that $700/month HOA was quite a good deal when I consider all the other monthly expenses of homeownership. If I lived in that high rise condo, the HOA fee would have included property taxes, insurance, security, all utilities except electricity and Internet, a gym, and a pool. Plus I wouldn't be responsible for landscape maintenance, roof repairs, exterior painting, and the like. Life isn't free... We're going to pay for it one way or another. Own a property outright and pay the maintenance yourself... Or own a condo and pay the maintenance monthly. Just be sure you have good management who doesn't put off repairs. As for the Florida condos in the headlines, most are near the beach. You're paying not for a place to live, but a place to live within walking distance to the beach. That's always going to be expensive. Even a condo with an HOA fee as high as its mortgage payment would still be the lowest cost way to live in that proximity to the beach. Few have the multi-millions necessary to own a single family home near the beach; and, if they did, they would still be responsible for ongoing property tax and maintenance issues. Condos even with a high HOA are still the only every level into beach front living. Some HOA fees are around 2K per month! pubic_assistance 1
+ Vegas_Millennial Posted April 26 Posted April 26 (edited) 45 minutes ago, marylander1940 said: Some HOA fees are around 2K per month! $2K/month is still a bargain next to the beach. Property taxes alone could be half that, plus insurance. That's still more economical than the property taxes and insurance and maintenance and utilities for a multi-million 3,000 sqft single family home if it were located next door. Location Location Location By comparison, I just looked up the average HOA fee in Manhattan and it's $1.5K per month for a condo about half the size of those typical in Florida. New York City real estate is going to need to crash before Florida starts to look expensive to those leaving the Empire State. Edited April 26 by Vegas_Millennial
+ Vegas_Millennial Posted April 26 Posted April 26 On 3/2/2025 at 2:43 PM, MikeThomas said: I hear a lot of Canadians are wanting out. The collapse of the Canadian dollar has made HOA fees, special assessments, property taxes and other expenses very expensive. That's something very important to keep in mind if retiring abroad. A large portion of one's assets should be in the same currency as where one lives/owns, to protect from the scenario when currency exchange rates aren't in one's favor. pubic_assistance 1
+ BenjaminNicholas Posted April 27 Posted April 27 On 4/26/2025 at 10:34 AM, marylander1940 said: Some HOA fees are around 2K per month! That's quite low these days for a building with amenities. Don't ask what high HOAs are in Manhattan. $20K+ a month. + Vegas_Millennial and pubic_assistance 1 1
Lotus-eater Posted July 16 Posted July 16 How the N.Y.C. Mayoral Race Is Impacting the Luxury Real Estate Market in South Florida ROBBREPORT.COM Zohran Mamdani’s victory in New York’s mayoral primary sent ripples through the high-end real estate sector, with... pubic_assistance 1
+ Vegas_Millennial Posted July 16 Posted July 16 2 hours ago, Lotus-eater said: How the N.Y.C. Mayoral Race Is Impacting the Luxury Real Estate Market in South Florida ROBBREPORT.COM Zohran Mamdani’s victory in New York’s mayoral primary sent ripples through the high-end real estate sector, with... This helps explains what I've been noticing in Ft Lauderdale's market the past few months. A few months ago, listings for homes which match my preferences were starting to cut prices with reach of my price range. Now, nothing's available. Prices are stable and supply is limited. pubic_assistance and Lotus-eater 2
Thelatin Posted July 18 Posted July 18 The closer I get to semi-retirement the less I like the idea of owning another property. When I can get a really nice air bnb home with a private pool etc. for 4-5 grand a month... EZEtoGRU, Lotus-eater, BSR and 1 other 4
+ Vegas_Millennial Posted July 19 Posted July 19 (edited) 6 hours ago, Thelatin said: The closer I get to semi-retirement the less I like the idea of owning another property. When I can get a really nice air bnb home with a private pool etc. for 4-5 grand a month... Exactly! I don't want to die with all my assets tied up in real estate, when I could have spent those assets on the company of men instead. Edited July 19 by Vegas_Millennial mike carey, Thelatin, pubic_assistance and 1 other 3 1
pubic_assistance Posted July 19 Posted July 19 On 4/27/2025 at 3:51 PM, BenjaminNicholas said: Don't ask what high HOAs are in Manhattan. $20K+ a month. My real estate taxes on my house are $7500 a month and I'm on a prime West Village block. $20K is absurd. I'm guessing your quoting the fee for one of those Arab Oil Sheik piggy-banks on 57th st. BSR and + Italiano 1 1
TonyDown Posted July 19 Posted July 19 Newsweek reported this week how HOAs are ruining the Florida condo market. Florida condo prices plunge in multiple cities WWW.NEWSWEEK.COM Florida condo prices have plummeted since July 2024, as rising HOA fees and high insurance premiums hit the oversupplied... Also, this week I listened to an insurance adjuster explaining how inflated home insurance premiums are impacting Florida. News articles report insurance companies are pulling out of Florida. Sounds like a crisis, although the news media tends to exagerate. Still, who is buying Florida in this market?
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