Is the escorting/massaging scene good in San Diego for providers?

[socurious]

I'm thinking in moving to San Diego and need to know. Here in NYC the market is oversaturated (way too compititive for newbies like me). 

[acks0104]

Honestly it's going to be a different experience for every provider. You should probably try doing a trip to San Diego first and seeing what interaction you get and how much you like it. San Diego County is also pretty big space wise

[Jarrod_Uncut]

Have you worked there before? If so: try it out and see. But my experience has been, traveling there for a couple days wasn’t so great and I often would feel it wasn’t a good market.

But earlier this year I stayed for like 2 weeks and was able to meet a handful of clients. Similar to NYC, San Diego is also a competitive market. It may have fewer than NYC, but it’s still a lot compared to the places I tend to go where there may only be a handful of guys advertising. 
 

Not to mention, it’s been discussed San Diego is “results may vary” in my opinion. You’re dealing with a lot of Navy (active duty don’t “typically” tend to pay except, but retirees more likely will), and college (same but, there’s a lot of money rich college students in SD too). 
 

The thing I liked the most with SD was the gay bar scene. I was like wooooooo. A Wednesday night in San Diego is busier than the busiest night in some of these Midwest cities. The line was down the street, and it was already shoulder to shoulder inside. It’s just hard to partake in that every night, when the goal is to earn and try to save money to go back home with. 

[Michael PhD]

13 hours ago, socurious said:

I'm thinking in moving to San Diego and need to know. Here in NYC the market is oversaturated (way too compititive for newbies like me). 

There may be options but only a couple well trained masseurs. If you are a trained masseur and have a variety of techniques including deep tissue, I would imagine you’d have clients line up. 

[Guest]

15 hours ago, socurious said:

I'm thinking in moving to San Diego and need to know. Here in NYC the market is oversaturated (way too compititive for newbies like me). 

I can't speak for the massage market but here's a possible conundrum you might be confronted with if you leave NYC because of competition... while San Diego isn't nearly as competitive or saturated as NYC, life in Southern California isn't exactly cheap, some places, arguably as expensive or more than NYC.... San Diego's market could be deemed steady at best but it's no NYC in terms of a market for men of the night. I'm from San Diego but always made my circuit Palm Springs, Los Angeles, and Orange County in that order..... what I always tell guys that live in the North East is that they have cash cows of cities within a short train ride away... if I lived in New York City, I would be visiting Boston and  Washington DC regularly not ever burning any one city out and I'd play  sitting duck in whatever of those 3 cities I lived in. 

[SouthOfTheBorder]

I don’t think escorting is that much different from other professions.  There are people that excel & become the best, regardless of where they are located - of course, competition is a factor to consider because in a super competitive market it requires a lot of work & dedication to make it.  
The very best providers are in NYC because it’s the #1 market in the world for potential income - that’s based on the number of providers working there & the rates they charge. There are very few other places that have an affluent population, lots of gay men with disposable income and a steady influx of tourists & executives with money to burn.  London maybe comes close, yet the rates are less.  LA would be right up there too.  The top tier guys I know & hire are based in NY/Miami (between the two cities) and then have a loose travel schedule around then world based on where their target clients go at specific times.  And they keep in mind that can’t charge NY prices in Greece, for example. 

Versus a relatively small city like San Diego that can’t compare to NYC in any way.  It’s not close enough to LA to make both cities work together. And because of the small size it would be an everyone knows everyone situation very quickly.  Providers based in small cities have their own set of complaints - small base of potential clients and people unwilling to pay. 

It really comes down to a lifestyle choice & being satisfied with those circumstances.  I’ve found that people seeking geographic solutions to their issues in specific places very seldom cure the problem with a move.  The issues seem to follow that person wherever they go.  But, way easier & cheaper places to live than NY where almost everything is complicated & expensive. 

The things that make an escort successful are reliability, professionalism, positive attitude & the ability to quickly determine which potential clients are right for them vs the time-wasters/flakes.  Most people think it’s being the youngest, best body or best looking- yet none of that matters if the person is unreliable or a flake. The top-tier guys I know never ever complain about their clients, hotel costs, cancellations, the cities where they work or anything else: they just make it happen. The true mark of any kind of professional is when it just appears effortless to those on the outside. And, the successful guys have figured out that reviews & reputation are everything in an increasingly online & competitive marketplace. 

Edited November 14, 2023 by SouthOfTheBorder

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, SouthOfTheBorder said:

I don’t think escorting is that much different from other professions.  There are people that excel & become the best, regardless of where they are located - of course, competition is a factor to consider because in a super competitive market it requires a lot of work & dedication to make it.  

This 100% ☝️.  Like you said, basically, competition drives excellence. 
Me,  personally would leave a place with a very small market and wouldn't leave a place because of a competitive market. 

[Simon Suraci]

Agree 100% with @SouthOfTheBorder. You have to be good, no matter where you’re working. Some markets will be better for certain providers, but overall, the best providers do well most anywhere that has a sizable population to support them. Traveling is another strategy. Moving to San Diego won’t magically change your businesses overnight.

I’m from San Diego originally and currently work in the San Diego market as a masseur and escort. I was successful in Dallas for a couple years too. 

Yes, SD is a smaller city, and a smaller market, and more difficult in some ways. We have more than plenty of provider choices, and a great many traveling providers constantly passing through. Fewer permanent guys, but plenty relative to the population.

The gay porn industry is anchored here, and by extension, LA and the rest of SoCal. Many years ago I used to work my desk job on the floor above “Suite 703”. It actually was located on the seventh floor of my building. Sean Cody is here, among many others. A lot of those models are active here, or retire and remain in San Diego long term. I know some of them. A lot of them escort or do massage, or personal training. For example, you might recognize Anthony from his films: https://rentmasseur.com/AnthonySD

All that to say, there is a lot of fierce competition here among providers. We may be a smaller city relative to NYC, LA and others, but we have no lack of attractive working men. Arguably the *quality* massage talent is lacking. We have lots of rub and tug guys who get by seeing one and done clients. There are a just a handful of good masseurs. For escorts, we are spoiled for choice. Lots of those.

There’s what we like to call the “sunshine tax”, which means the cost of loving is very high, but wages across the board remain relatively very low in comparison to the high cost of living. This year SD is ranked the most expensive city to live in the US, topping even SF, Miami and NYC. Most years prior it was ranked below those. People move here because they love being here and are willing to sacrifice some aspect of their standard of living for the trade off of enjoying the less tangible benefits of living in SD. Having access to beautiful beaches, nice weather, the laid back attitude, lots of metropolitan institutions, and a thriving economy, among many perks of living here.

NYC metro is also very expensive, so it may not matter if you’re comparing the two, but keep in mind business is challenging anywhere you go. You have to master your craft and how you do business. After that, you can go almost anywhere that makes sense and do well.

[socurious]

How much would the hourly rate in a city like San Diego be? My rate here is NYC for outcalls is 300.

[SouthOfTheBorder]

2 hours ago, socurious said:

How much would the hourly rate in a city like San Diego be? My rate here is NYC for outcalls is 300.

an escorts listed rate means nothing.  
a rate that a,client will pay has so many variables that it’s impossible to quantify without complete information & seeing the escorts profile.  even then, what somone will pay is not some standard formula.  how many positive reviews does the escort have, how long has the person been advertising as an escort, what do the pics look like & what will the escort do ? Is the escort a porn star, or does the escort have a big social media following like OnlyFans or Instagram ?

Based on a previous threade, you said no kissing.  That’s a huge turn-off for majority of potential clients & completely removes most potential clients from ever hiring you.  You also said only one review - that’s another problem where people won’t hire you.  Unless you have some special type of service, appeal to a niche group, or are social media famous ……it doesn’t look good. 

Becoming a successful escort takes work and some self-awareness re: what you’re willing to do vs what people are willing to pay.  I can’t imagine anyone paying $300 for an escort with one review & wont do the basics.  The chances are worse once you get outside of the major cities.  it’s not an easy job and many did that out the hard way.

Any city that has nice weather & decent quality of life is going to be saturated with escorts. That’s a fact 

 

 

 

Edited November 14, 2023 by SouthOfTheBorder

[Simon Suraci]

I agree with most of the above. Every provider is different. You can charge whatever you want and it doesn’t have to match what the average is in a given area. It just has to make business sense for you. An escort’s advertised rate for one hour does mean something, but it’s more nuanced than that.

I have different rates for massage than I do for escort service, for example, and I even do some breakout pricing for clients who want a blend of both in a single session. My escort rate is $300/hr which covers all the basics and even some niche interest activities. I discount my rate for longer hires, which is a lot of my business. You might find rates similar to mine in almost all major US cities. Higher in NYC/LA/SF etc, and lower in the American heartland. I can’t speak for everyone or give you an average rate, but mine is probably not very far off from a lot of other guys around SD.

You get a LOT of outlier guys around SD and LA charging 5 or even $600+ for a single hour of service, but they can’t possibly be that busy working full time as an in person service escort. Most of them are doing fans sites work and/or have other jobs, and take the odd client once in a while who is willing to pay an outrageous fee for a specific look, body type, or niche service. The serious escorts who do this every day full time for their main living charge closer to the going rates. Even the part time guys often fall within the going rates: $250/hr at the low end, up to $350+/hr at the high end, excluding the unserious outliers I mentioned above.

Some of that pricing becomes irrelevant when you’re entertaining clients for longer hires, like half a day, overnight, or multiple days. Those total in the thousands. Clients hire me most frequently for five hours, all-inclusive for $1000. That’s only $200/hr, but makes a hell of a lot more business sense for me. The per-hr rate is not everything. It’s just a benchmark. It’s the closest thing we have to something objective to compare. Like @SouthOfTheBorder mentioned, there are a lot of variables at play. You do what makes business sense for YOU, not what you perceive everyone else does.

@socurious No kissing is quite limiting. Your pool of potential clients will be much smaller if you either can’t or won’t do all the vanilla basics like kissing, touching, jerking off, cuddling, oral, and anal (either or both positions), and preferably flexible on protected vs unprotected. The majority of clients want one or more of those activities, usually multiple. Most clients willing to pay close to the going rate want some kind of penetration, but not all.

To be successful, you need to appeal to a wide variety of people. If you’re not all of the following: in your 20s (true age), conventionally extremely attractive, and fit, you have to appeal to the majority of clients in other ways. Some of those are: providing all the basic (and maybe some niche) services, demonstrating superior skills, and being easy to work with, and to a much lesser degree, how you price your services. I agree with many of the points @SouthOfTheBorder mentioned too. Price is probably the least important factor of all, assuming you’re not pricing way below or way above the going rates.

 

[SouthOfTheBorder]

5 minutes ago, Simon Suraci said:

Some of that pricing becomes irrelevant when you’re entertaining clients for longer hires, like half a day, overnight, or multiple days. Those total in the thousands. Clients hire me most frequently for five hours, all-inclusive for $1000. That’s only $200/hr, but makes a hell of a lot more business sense for me

this is super smart for many reasons.
getting ready & doing an outcall requires the same exact effort to prepare/travel whether one hour or 3 hours - so why not discount the rate to get an overall bigger spend ?  1 hour at $300 vs 3hours at $600 ? Or similar …..yet, vast majority of escorts do not offer this and some will balk at any discounts whatsoever on some sort of principal when it makes perfect business sense. Most do not get the concept.

And the clients that hire longer multi-hour appointments have more money & want a more relaxed time with breaks for drinks, etc. it’s not like 3 hours of nonstop sex. Plus, the longer appointments allow escort to develop a relationship with client to increase probability of additional hires and longer times.  This is very simple, yet very few do it.  Some offer overnight rates - I don’t get that personally, I have zero interest hiring someone to sleep.

[Simon Suraci]

^This guy gets it!

[socurious]

Is Dallas as competitive as NYC and San Diego?

[Simon Suraci]

I can’t speak to NYC but many other members here can. My understanding is that it’s the largest market in the United Sates. Dallas/ Ft Worth is a large metroplex area. It’s on track to exceed Chicago within the next 15 or so years. 

Dallas constantly has many traveling providers because it’s 1) a major city and 2) an air transportation hub. Southwest and American are based there, and several major airlines have routes there. 

There’s plenty of room for competition in Dallas, but if you try there, see what you can do to differentiate yourself from everyone else. That’s good advice anywhere, but it’s easy to get lost in the crowd in Dallas. Anywhere is going to be less of a crowd than NYC, so maybe that doesn’t matter for your purposes.

You might try a trip to Dallas just to see how the locals respond to you. Try a week and see how it goes. There’s no lack of demand, just varying tastes and schedules. You might even bump into several traveling clients, since it’s such a hub and travelers have more urgency to book in a given timeframe than locals.

[Jarrod_Uncut]

11 hours ago, socurious said:

Is Dallas as competitive as NYC and San Diego?

Having familiarity with Dallas myself: it’s definitely not as competitive as NYC…but has over the years grown to be nearly as competitive as San Diego. I started there back when there were only 10 escorts in Dallas. Now there’s like, 70? With a mix of traveling and locals.

Also, keep in mind that buying sex work in Texas is now considered (in a loosely defined way) a felony. I know that’s not fun to talk about, but it’s always good to be aware of what’s being passed in legislation and how that could affect potential client’s behavior and your bottom line. 
 

No surprise to me because Texas and Dallas can be very conservative, and known for being Bible 📖 thumping state. Some of the largest mega churches in the nation, are located in Texas. Nothing wrong with the Bible or churches, it’s just that when it becomes a weapon to disenfranchise people, that’s the problem. One can argue that’s good for business, catching the sinners on their days off: but do you really want to deal with that? 
 

20 hours ago, SouthOfTheBorder said:

The top-tier guys I know never ever complain about their clients, hotel costs, cancellations, the cities where they work or anything else: they just make it happen. The true mark of any kind of professional is when it just appears effortless to those on the outside. And, the successful guys have figured out that reviews & reputation are everything in an increasingly online & competitive marketplace. 

Meh, bleh. How do you know that? 
 

Of course they may not complain directly to you or anyone else about their clients, but you never know what they talk about behind closed doors. They probably don’t even post on here, because they don’t want to give that impression…as they shouldn’t if they aren’t in a position to share and discuss such things without fear of criticism.
 

But you can’t make a blanket statement to imply certain providers never contend with clients, hotel costs or cancellations. You can’t be pejorative towards those who might not like, but want to change or improve certain things in the business. Sure YOU may not HEAR these people talk about such things, but are you with them 24/7, watching what they do to handle the situations that all providers face? Because I’ve been in the gay scene for awhile…I know what goes on behind closed doors. Anyone can make you to think, what they want you to think. 
 

And even if you don’t hear it from them, I’ve spoken to clients who have a different story to tell. So don’t assume there’s “perfect” guys out there who have it all together. You’re just getting a glimpse.

There’s not a single guy out there in the gay community that I know: who isn’t dealing with a personal challenge of sorts, but on the outside and in conversations: portrays like they have it all together. Everybody has problems. Which is okay. But don’t make it like the guys who may be in better shape financially or getting more clients, are somehow immune to the issues at hand and never complain. They probably just never complain to you. 
 

I only say that because it’s a lot of dudes out there putting on this fake facade, and then look down on those who may be going thru something. That doesn’t intimidate me. People need to be more real, especially gay people: and uplift each other, not put one another down.

Edited November 15, 2023 by Jarrod_Uncut

[SouthOfTheBorder]

3 hours ago, Jarrod_Uncut said:

Of course they may not complain directly to you or anyone else about their clients, but you never know what they talk about behind closed doors. They probably don’t even post on here, because they don’t want to give that impression…as they shouldn’t if they aren’t in a position to share and discuss such things without fear of criticism.

Isn’t that the point ?

Escorts, whether they know it or not, are creating a brand identify from the moment they enter the scene, usually by a listing on RM or similar site.  From that moment going forward, the public brand or image is shaped by site reviews, Twitter, OnlyFans, personal appearances, forums word-of-mouth & self-participation in forums like this. All of that goes to image and reputation.

I’m not sure that an escort complaining about all the typical escort issues in an online forum (that is populated by people who hire escorts) where the escorts identity is known and affects his brand or image is helpful.  Some people might think the escort is too negative and others might think too uptight/rigid. Others might just be turned off by the complaining. I don’t think it has any upside for the escort, other than if it makes them feel better by venting.  

When I hire, I’m looking for a bit of an escape, adventure, fantasy & sex all rolled into one hour.  And I want it to be easy.  If there was an escort that I wanted to hire & was very public about all his complaints, troubles, frustrations, etc - i wouldn’t hire that person because maybe that negativity could show up in my appointment ?  I’d choose to hire the person who presents publicly as happy, successful, fun & sexy.  I want to maximize my chances of having a good experience and not get caught up in any provider negativity, however than manifests. 

Of course everyone has struggles & challenges - it’s how a person deals with them that makes the difference. A positive mindset is everything and if that can be created, then eventually positive things start to happen. And the reverse is also true.  

 

Edited November 15, 2023 by SouthOfTheBorder

[marylander1940]

On 11/13/2023 at 12:23 AM, socurious said:

I'm thinking in moving to San Diego and need to know. Here in NYC the market is oversaturated (way too compititive for newbies like me). 

You've been asking about specific places to visit and I have a feeling this trend will go on. 

No city is good for everyone because of many different reasons and cities that work for you may not work for others. Besides some trips to the same city are better than others and having a city that's good for you doesn't guarantee you'll always have a successful trip there either. 

I would suggest you run an ad in San Diego to do some "canvassing", see how many guys are interested in hiring you, and if you think the trip is worth go there. 

You can also run the ad hoping to get an "anchor client", someone who is willing to pay for your trip and hire you for a long period of time during your trip and if you think it's good idea you can stay on your own after. 

Btw how come you don't have a link to your ad as signature in all your posts? 

Edited November 16, 2023 by marylander1940

[marylander1940]

18 hours ago, socurious said:

Is Dallas as competitive as NYC and San Diego?

NOTHING compares to NYC....

You can also see how many pages of escorts are in each city to see how competitive it is.

[socurious]

18 minutes ago, marylander1940 said:

NOTHING compares to NYC....

You can also see how many pages of escorts are in each city to see how competitive it is.

I just did.

NYC shows more than 300+ profiles.

Dallas about 200.

San Diego a total of 156.

Edited November 15, 2023 by socurious

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, socurious said:

I just did.

NYC shows more than 300+ profiles.

Dallas about 200.

San Diego a total of 156.

Flip the script man!!! Make the competition nervous that you add to that competition!  Be your competition's competition!!!! 
On a sidenote, when it comes to talking about New York City, everybody knows that out of the hundreds of pages of available folks probably half of them are using photos that are more than 10 years old lol. 

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

20 hours ago, SouthOfTheBorder said:

Based on a previous threade, you said no kissing.  That’s a huge turn-off for majority of potential clients & completely removes most potential clients from ever hiring you.  You also said only one review - that’s another problem where people won’t hire you.

Also based on previous threads, this person was annoyed with a 3 hour round-trip travel to a customer.  If you're working in San Diego or practically any large city in California, be prepared for long commutes to your clients to be the norm.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Vegas_Millennial said:

Also based on previous threads, this person was annoyed with a 3 hour round-trip travel to a customer.  If you're working in San Diego or practically any large city in California, be prepared for long commutes to your clients to be the norm.

One hour and 15 minutes to Palm Springs, exactly 1 hour to downtown San Diego and an hour and a half to West Hollywood/Beverly Hills. I do it every week and I am not in the slightest inconvenienced by it.

Edited November 15, 2023 by Vin_Marco

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

4 minutes ago, Vin_Marco said:

One hour and 15 minutes to Palm Springs, exactly 1 hour to downtown San Diego and an hour and a half to West Hollywood/Beverly Hills. I do it every week and I am not in the slightest inconvenienced by it.

Yes, those numbers seem pretty reasonable once you get used to it.  But compared to a 30 minute train ride from NYC, these travel times can seem far for those not familiar with the West Coast

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

16 minutes ago, Vin_Marco said:

Flip the script man!!! Make the competition nervous that you add to that competition!  Be your competition's competition!!!! 
On a sidenote, when it comes to talking about New York City, everybody knows that out of the hundreds of pages of available folks probably half of them are using photos that are more than 10 years old lol. 

Here's a reminder that even with the hundreds of men in NYC, there is still room to serve a niche.  This person could not find anyone he would like to hire in NYC.

Maybe @socurious should focus on what he can bring to the table as a mature 40 year old man.  You know, approach the Daddy angle.  There's plenty of young guys who want to play with Daddy's, although it may involve some kissing and penetration, not just body worship.