Deposits and when are they ok to ask for it?

[JB_Studio38]

12 minutes ago, Simon Suraci said:

Here’s how I get around it. Who knows how long this will fly, but you could try some clever version of it. Imperfect solution I admit, and it’s at the bottom of the page in a less obvious location, but at least one way to get by.

Good point, I have it all mentioned in my site as well that’s fairly easy to navigate. I just wouldn’t want to risk getting scolded for not following the rules. Just the other day I wrote something that I think said appointments, and the whole paragraph got wiped out

[Guest]

Keep it simple. Simplicity in design is genius, simplicity in humans is divine and velvet ropes work. 

[Guest]

Everyone is entitled to go about their business as they see fit and we all do it a bit differently.... and while I don't claim to know it all, I certainly have figured out a formula that has worked for me and continues to work for me.  I continue to be as busy as I want to be and this is all coming from someone that rarely runs an active visible ad ( my ad is probably hidden 90% of the year ) NONE of this would be possible if I charged for a "consultation" , demanded a deposit ( I've already mentioned in other posts the two RARE exceptions for a deposit being warranted ) or if I chased people for a cancellation fee....  just last night, someone who I was going to see in Palm Springs next week cancelled on me because of a death in his family that requires him to leave the state, he asked for my  Venmo information so he could pay for the session he had to cancel... I'm not going to post the screenshot of the conversation because it's my personal opinion that doing so is in poor taste ( those are private conversations ) but I basically said that the fact that he offered was plenty and after expressing my condolences, I told him there was no way I could accept that money... Under certain and different circumstances that might have not been the case, for instance, if it  was a last minute cancellation where I couldn't recoup the time or if I had driven1-2 hours only to be cancelled on, but accepting cancellation money is very circumstantial and is not the norm. Would I bend over backwards for someone who's paid or offered cancellation money, you better believe it! There are certain unwritten rules and a code of ethics among us in what I would consider to be long time and successful providers; things like asking for deposits, asking for the "honorarium" prior to the session and counting money in front of people unless asked to do so, otherwise it's all just in poor taste.  I speak from years of experience and I've always been the first to get out of my own way, ask for opinions and advice from people who I have high regard for, loads of respect and who I consider voices of reason and to do the opposite of what has been advised and expect different results would justifiably and appropriately render me both a fool and insane. Take this all for what you will but it comes from years of experience from a guy who could only gripe about one thing.... OCCASIONALLY getting stuck in traffic. 

Edited November 21, 2023 by Vin_Marco

[JB_Studio38]

1 hour ago, Vin_Marco said:

Everyone is entitled to go about their business as they see fit and we all do it a bit differently.... and while I don't claim to know it all, I certainly have figured out a formula that has worked for me and continues to work for me.  I continue to be as busy as I want to be and this is all coming from someone that rarely runs an active visible ad ( my ad is probably hidden 90% of the year ) NONE of this would be possible if I charged for a "consultation" , demanded a deposit ( I've already mentioned in other posts the two RARE exceptions for a deposit being warranted ) or if the I chased people for a cancellation fee....  just last night, someone who I was going to see in Palm Springs next week cancelled on me because of a death in his family that requires him to leave the state, he asked for my  Venmo information so he could pay for the session he had to cancel... I'm not going to post the screenshot of the conversation because it's my personal opinion that doing so is in poor taste ( those are private conversations ) but I basically said that the fact that he offered was plenty and after expressing my condolences, I told him there was no way I could accept that money... Under certain and different circumstances that might have not been the case, for instance, if it  was a last minute cancellation where I couldn't recoup the time or if I had driven1-2 hours only to be cancelled on, but accepting cancellation money is very circumstantial and is not the norm. Would I bend over backwards for someone who's paid or offered cancellation money, you better believe it! There are certain unwritten rules and a code of ethics among us in what I would consider to be long time and successful providers; things like asking for deposits, asking for the "honorarium" prior to the session and counting money in front of people unless asked to do so, otherwise it's all just in poor taste.  I speak from years of experience and I've always been the first to get out of my own way, ask for opinions and advice from people who I have high regard for, loads of respect and who I consider voices of reason and to do the opposite of what has been advised and expect different results would justifiably and appropriately render me both a fool and insane. Take this all for what you will but it comes from years of experience from a guy who could only gripe about one thing.... OCCASIONALLY getting stuck in traffic. 

I respect that all, however…in the case you mentioned about the guy offering you a Venmo cancellation, I had someone just last week cancel because of some complications involving the same you mentioned. But did he offer me a Venmo cancellation? No. Basically brushed it off and then gave some comment about he can’t afford it and “maybe next time in town”.  
 

Because of his cancellation, I had to cancel a dermatology appointment I scored at the last minute, because it was in the same city the client was, in St. Louis which is 4 hours from me. But because my part-time roommate in St. Louis also had a death in the family, he had relative staying with him on emergency, and I couldn’t afford to drive out, and get a hotel for two days without assurance of an appointment.

So let’s first acknowledge: clients cancelling PERIOD, has the possibilities of messing up an escorts ENTIRE PLANS. Once people get that in their heads, they can stop minimizing the importance of deposits. Get why first, some charge deposits, then we can discuss all the other stuff.
 

I respect you as a provider, however at the end of the day I think you may forget a fact called “White privilege” (and that is a blanket description regardless of what ethnic background one may be from). Even though I won’t get deep into the factors of that, I think you sometimes post from a point of privilege, and don’t always see things from an alternative perspective. Acknowledging the fact that perhaps, certain providers may receive different treatment from people depending on where they are based at: is not going to be the same as you, a provider who’s set up in an affluent area of the country. 
 

At the end of the day, I think a person can have their preferences without necessarily criticizing another’s decision. I ask consultations for a reason. It’s not like I just woke up and said, “ooo let me charge $20 for consultations”. No. I did it because I was spending time after time after time, responding to people who never give anything back for my time.
 

In fact I had stopped doing it for awhile until last week: waited around for an hour at 10-11 p.m. for a client when I was already about on my way home, only to tell me he’s not going to be ready to meet. Then I go and find a bunch of shit that other providers have wrote saying he did the same thing to them. I could have went home an hour ago that night, but I had a small amount of trust he would meet, considering we met before and he sent me the hotel address 🤦🏾‍♂️ 

Privilege exists when one group has something of value that is denied to others simply because of group membership and not based on what a person or group has done or failed to do

Understanding Race and Privilege

WWW.NASPONLINE.ORG

---

Across the nation, children of all backgrounds are experiencing a time in which discussions about...

 

Edited November 20, 2023 by Jarrod_Uncut

[SouthOfTheBorder]

8 hours ago, myophile said:

In the five or so years I’ve been doing this, out of the two dozen or so guys I’ve hired

I’ve been doing this for 35 years, hundreds of meetings, in many countries around the world.  
I’ve been asked for a deposit exactly one time.  It was in NYC and with a provider I knew well who had just switched to a deposit business model.  Since I knew him well, I went along with it knowing there was zero risk on my part and he was testing out the deposit model.  Guess what ? He no longer requires deposits because he lost income - new clients wouldn’t do it.

The main point is that in the provider/client context - deposits are not customary and very very few providers operate on that model.  So, to decide to operate outside the customary model, the provider will get push-back. It’s baked it - meaning its absolutely going to happen.  If the provider is ok with the push-back & loss of potential clients & corresponding income - then by all means, go for it.  Try to change the industry.

Just my opinion - but I think the only time a deposit model would work is if there is a very famous & known provider where the demand for appointments is so high and the rate is corresponding high - so deposits would be a way to minimize lost opportunity if people flake when there are others waiting in line to pay for same appointment time.  That would only happen in NYC, London, LA, Las Vegas or Miami. 
It doesn’t work in small markets where demand is less and clients don’t want to pay at all. Creating barriers in small markets with people that don’t want to pay, is a recipe for frustration & no money.

This isn’t complicated - it basic economics re: supply/demand & marketing online services given known human behavior in context of markets, clients & competition.  It could be for any sort of business - same sort of analysis. 

Edited November 20, 2023 by SouthOfTheBorder

[MikeBiDude]

48 minutes ago, Jarrod_Uncut said:

So let’s first acknowledge: clients cancelling PERIOD, has the possibilities of messing up an escorts ENTIRE PLANS

The inverse is certainly true as well.

[SouthOfTheBorder]

1 hour ago, Vin_Marco said:

 I speak from years of experience and I've always been the first to get out of my own way, ask for opinions and advice from people who I have high regard for, loads of respect and who I consider voices of reason and to do the opposite of what has been advised and expect different results would justifiably and appropriately render me both a fool and insane.

wise words. everything you post is spot-on.  I’d say there is alot to be learned from your wisdom and willingness to share.  the guys who are starting out and/or struggling can make it so difficult, yet you make it look easy.  Of course, it’s not easy and that’s what sets you apart from the rest, IMO

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, SouthOfTheBorder said:

wise words. everything you post is spot-on.  I’d say there is alot to be learned from your wisdom and willingness to share.  the guys who are starting out and/or struggling can make it so difficult, yet you make it look easy.  Of course, it’s not easy and that’s what sets you apart from the rest, IMO

Thank youuuu. I sincerely appreciate what you said 🫂 🙏🏽

[SouthOfTheBorder]

1 minute ago, Vin_Marco said:

I sincerely appreciate what you said

because I mean it & it’s true .

[+ Jamie21]

1 hour ago, Vin_Marco said:

There are certain unwritten rules and a code of ethics among us in what I would consider to be long time and successful providers; things like asking for deposits, asking for the "honorarium" prior to the session and counting money in front of people unless asked to do so,

Yes, I agree with these unwritten rules. No deposits (but I don’t travel for longer than an hour), no payment up front, no counting the money unless asked to. I’d add no last minute late night bookings, no client gets to book a session if they’ve previously no showed (I give one chance, if there was a reasonable excuse).

These are rules I apply and my business model works fine 99% of the time for me. It’s my choice to work like this, I could travel but I choose not to. Other business models might require different policies but I like mine because they work for me and have done for 6 years. Over 70% of my clients are repeat business.  I don’t need or want to chase work, therefore I don’t need to make any compromises in how I do business. 

[SouthOfTheBorder]

58 minutes ago, Jamie21 said:

no payment up front,

I always pay upfront with new providers so there is no confusion or question. It’s my choice & always seem appreciated. Usually there is a look of surprise, which I enjoy.  I operate on slightly different norm & it works for me.  I try to pay in big bills so no reason to count it. I wouldn’t be offended if someone counted it tho.

If upfront money is requested or demanded, that’s a red flag and things probably won’t get better.

 

Edited November 20, 2023 by SouthOfTheBorder

[SouthOfTheBorder]

I think I need to see @Jamie21and @Vin_Marco

[Guest]

1 minute ago, SouthOfTheBorder said:

I always pay upfront with new providers so there is no confusion or question. It’s my choice & always seem appreciated.

I don't need to tell you how many people you have automatically put at ease without them ever saying, it's a great gesture to put it visibly on a night stand but it's a big difference from someone asking for it prior to. You're a class act SOTB 🙌🏽

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, SouthOfTheBorder said:

I think I need to see @Jamie21and @Vin_Marco

 🧭 North, South, West, and or East of the border, anytime baby! 

[myophile]

2 hours ago, Vin_Marco said:

Everyone is entitled to go about their business as they see fit and we all do it a bit differently.... and while I don't claim to know it all, I certainly have figured out a formula that has worked for me and continues to work for me.  I continue to be as busy as I want to be and this is all coming from someone that rarely runs an active visible ad ( my ad is probably hidden 90% of the year ) NONE of this would be possible if I charged for a "consultation" , demanded a deposit ( I've already mentioned in other posts the two RARE exceptions for a deposit being warranted ) or if the I chased people for a cancellation fee....  just last night, someone who I was going to see in Palm Springs next week cancelled on me because of a death in his family that requires him to leave the state, he asked for my  Venmo information so he could pay for the session he had to cancel... I'm not going to post the screenshot of the conversation because it's my personal opinion that doing so is in poor taste ( those are private conversations ) but I basically said that the fact that he offered was plenty and after expressing my condolences, I told him there was no way I could accept that money... Under certain and different circumstances that might have not been the case, for instance, if it  was a last minute cancellation where I couldn't recoup the time or if I had driven1-2 hours only to be cancelled on, but accepting cancellation money is very circumstantial and is not the norm. Would I bend over backwards for someone who's paid or offered cancellation money, you better believe it! There are certain unwritten rules and a code of ethics among us in what I would consider to be long time and successful providers; things like asking for deposits, asking for the "honorarium" prior to the session and counting money in front of people unless asked to do so, otherwise it's all just in poor taste.  I speak from years of experience and I've always been the first to get out of my own way, ask for opinions and advice from people who I have high regard for, loads of respect and who I consider voices of reason and to do the opposite of what has been advised and expect different results would justifiably and appropriately render me both a fool and insane. Take this all for what you will but it comes from years of experience from a guy who could only gripe about one thing.... OCCASIONALLY getting stuck in traffic. 

Thank you for lifting the tone of this conversation above the purely transactional, big guy 💪🏻😘

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Jarrod_Uncut said:

I respect you as a provider, however at the end of the day I think you may forget a fact called “White privilege”

I'm only going to speak on this one time  and one time only, never again. Please be cautious of who you accuse of being privileged in such a way.....  I am Mexican. I am an immigrant from Mexico. I am the son of immigrants. I didn't learn to speak English until I was six years old and being raised here in Southern California I was called "wet back" and "beaner"  more times than I can count. I  grew up a scrappy fighting kid as a result of that bigotry and prejudice ....  Are you meaning to say that my time in the gym ( my entire life ) my education, the way I treat people means nothing?  That it's more your perception of me being subject to some sort of white privilege??? That's utter nonsense! My parents lived on a boat for years and for part of my formative years I lived in a Sāmoan household.... I speak fluent Sāmoan ( ou te iloa gagana Sāmoa!!!!  ) 
Almost on a daily basis I'm asked of what ethnic origin I come from, obviously even strangers don't assume the same white privilege you ask if I'm aware of. I'm not mad, I'm not offended, and I say this all with informative good intentions. 

 

 

Edited November 20, 2023 by Vin_Marco

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, myophile said:

Thank you for lifting the tone of this conversation above the purely transactional, big guy 💪🏻😘

Thank you for saying that 🫂

[SouthOfTheBorder]

1 hour ago, Jamie21 said:

Yes, I agree with these unwritten rules

A thread on the unwritten rules would be very helpful.  I’d love to see it

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, SouthOfTheBorder said:

A thread on the unwritten rules would be very helpful.  I’d love to see it

I'm happy to start one... some are serious 🧐 some are funny 😆 

[pubic_assistance]

On 11/19/2023 at 3:29 PM, Arab said:

It depends on your financial availability. Every provider I've seen so far asked for a security deposit

How many have you seen ? One ? Two ? Because 90% of the escorts on the planet do NOT ask for deposits.

Either you've been terribly unlucky in your picks or you just signed on the C.o.M. to defend this (ridiculous) narrative that deposits are a reasonable business practice and clients should just trust that the stranger on the other side of the transaction is 100% trustworthy.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, pubic_assistance said:

or you just signed on the C.o.M. to defend this (ridiculous) narrative that deposits are a reasonable business practice and clients should just trust that the stranger on the other side of the transaction is 100% trustworthy.

💯 @pubic_assistance Good, I'm not the only one that thought that was a high possibility 

[+ Jamie21]

6 minutes ago, Vin_Marco said:

I'm happy to start one... some are serious 🧐 some are funny 😆 

Do it! Please 🙏 

When I retire I’m writing a book on my experiences. Some unwritten rules will be written then.

[+ Jamie21]

7 minutes ago, pubic_assistance said:

How many have you seen ? One ? Two ? Because 90% of the escorts on the planet do NOT ask for deposits.

Either you've been terribly unlucky in your picks or you just signed on the C.o.M. to defend this (ridiculous) narrative that deposits are a reasonable business practice and clients should just trust that the stranger on the other side of the transaction is 100% trustworthy.

Or his initial request to the provider always appears to be so sketchy that even the most relaxed provider who never asks for a deposit changes his policy and asks for one having received his request….

[Guest]

I will @Jamie21 let me think about it for a night.... it will informative, funny, and one that loads of people can contribute and participate in 😊

[SouthOfTheBorder]

6 minutes ago, Vin_Marco said:

I will @Jamie21 let me think about it for a night.... it will informative, funny, and one that loads of people can contribute and participate in 😊

I can think of lots of sub-topics 

just please - no *deposits*  

seems to have been thoroughly covered

interesting to note how this negative thread turned positive - let’s have more of that 

 

Edited November 21, 2023 by SouthOfTheBorder