So Being Gay in The 50's Was Like This?

[+ FreshFluff]

On 5/16/2023 at 10:28 AM, Vegas_Millennial said:

The video served its purpose at the time it was made.  It was common for boys to hitchhike, and most women didn't drive.   Girls were already taught not to take rides from men.   This video was a way of alerting boys that some men would try to take advantage of them as well.  With today's culture, hindsight shows it would have been better to focus on pedophiles of both sexes who prey on children of both sexes.  But just look at what that has done to Generation Z!  Parents of Generation Z for the most part don't let their children have sleep overs, take rides, or play sports unless the parents are at every practice to watch over them.

As well intentioned as these videos are, I think society is worse off for being so overprotective of our children.

To be fair, there was a similar video called “Girls Beware.” Of course, it focused on male predators. People at the time weren’t really concerned about 15 year old boys having sex with 19 year old women.  For one thing, boys molested by women weren’t murdered and didn’t turn up at school pregnant. As you say, things look very different from a modern perspective. 

 

 

Edited May 18, 2023 by FreshFluff

[+ Coolwave35]

On 5/16/2023 at 1:28 PM, Vegas_Millennial said:

I think society is worse off for being so overprotective of our children.

I am 40. I was molested at 8. A lot over the course of one summer. It was a family friend that my parents let me go spend time with. I think they needed a babysitter or appreciated the help of me being under someone’s care for a while. Looking back, any moron could see I was being groomed and abused. I wish my parents had been more protective, or less dumb or desperate or whatever. 
 

My friend and his wife is a mom of 3. Their oldest is 8. She doesn’t let her kids do sleep overs, ride alone in cars with anyone other than their dad, her sister, and her mom and dad, go off with anyone etc. That’s it. 
 

As I am much better friends with her husband, I didn’t know this. We were on a cruise together and all hanging by the pool and the 8 year old wanted to go on the carousel and get ice cream. I offered to take the 8 year old. He said he wasn’t allowed to go with me. I said sure you are, let’s go tell mom. When I went to “tell mom,” she got up a tried to join us. I reassured her that it was fine and I didn’t mind and we would be right back and I didn’t feel inconvenienced. She politely explained that it wasn’t about me, not to take it personal, and affirmed that I wasn’t going anywhere with her son alone. As a victim of molestation at that age, the fierce, unabashed way she was protecting her son was overwhelming and I had to excuse myself.  I totally get why she isn’t leaving the door open for there to even be an opportunity. As close as I am with her husband, in reality she has no clue whether I’m a predator or not. And she takes no chances. 

[+ Pensant]

On 5/15/2023 at 9:41 AM, Unicorn said:

I'm certainly no Biblical expert, but I don't think there's anything in the Bible which says priests can't get married. Don't Orthodox priests get married?

There’s no biblical support for it. It was implemented in the Roman Church in the 12th century mainly because the church didn’t want married priests to be leaving inheritances to children and wives, rather than the church. In Eastern Orthodoxy, priests are often required to be married, so as to set a familial model for their communities. In the Roman Catholic Church today there are a few exceptions. Priests of the Uniate or Greek Catholic Church have always been permitted to marry. Also, male priests from denominations that practice Apostolic Succession, i.e. Anglicans/Episcopalians and certain Lutherans, can become ordained Catholic priests while keeping their wives.

[mike carey]

19 minutes ago, Pensant said:

In Eastern Orthodoxy, priests are often required to be married, so as to set a familial model for their communities.

I recall an Orthodox priest in Australia being interviewed about the difficulties in recruiting priests here rejecting the idea that his church might adopt celibacy, as practised in 'the Roman Catholic heresy.'

[+ Pensant]

1 minute ago, mike carey said:

I recall an Orthodox priest in Australia being interviewed about the difficulties in recruiting priests here rejecting the idea that his church might adopt celibacy, as practised in 'the Roman Catholic heresy.'

On the other hand, monks in Eastern Orthodoxy practice celibacy. Back in 2018 I went on a long bike ride from Belgrade across the Danube into the Serbian countryside and we met a few monks at an ancient Serbian Orthodox monastery and I learned that little fact.

[pubic_assistance]

58 minutes ago, Pensant said:

male priests from denominations that practice Apostolic Succession, i.e. Anglicans/Episcopalians and certain Lutherans, can become ordained Catholic priests while keeping their wives.

Curious why any Lutheran would WANT to convert to Roman Catholicism since we view the Roman order as a bastardization of Christianity.  Curious if they also must promise their inheritance to Rome ? 

Edited May 18, 2023 by pubic_assistance

[+ nycman]

1 hour ago, Coolwave35 said:

I reassured her that it was fine and I didn’t mind and we would be right back and I didn’t feel inconvenienced. She politely explained that it wasn’t about me, not to take it personal, and affirmed that I wasn’t going anywhere with her son alone.

I find such overly protective behavior bizarre and unhealthy for the child.

I would have politely excused myself….from the friendship.

[+ Lucky]

57 minutes ago, mike carey said:

I recall an Orthodox priest in Australia being interviewed about the difficulties in recruiting priests here rejecting the idea that his church might adopt celibacy, as practised in 'the Roman Catholic heresy.'

So we can discuss religion here.

[+ Pensant]

24 minutes ago, pubic_assistance said:

Curious why any Lutheran would WANT to convert to Roman Catholicism since we view the Roman order as a bastardization of Christianity.  Curious if they also must promise their inheritance to Rome ? 

Good point. There is an obscure “Romanist” “high church” variant of Lutheranism with Holy Eucharist every Sunday and making the sign of the cross. Especially in the state churches of Scandinavia, where they still retain the essence of the Mass and are headed by archbishops.

[pubic_assistance]

22 minutes ago, nycman said:

I find such overly protective behavior bizarre and unhealthy for the child.

Unfortunately "over-protective" is the default setting for parents today.

I remember when my kids were little and I would take them to the local park, women would try and help my daughter get off the monkey bars for fear she might fall off.  EVERY time we would go !

My daughter had gymnastics classes from an early age, and was quite confident in her ability. The park had rubber cushions under the monkey bars. So there was little risk of her falling and actually injuring herself. Yet these women were convinced that this child had be abandoned by her parent(s) and was running wild and dangerously. ( I was sitting mere feet away). Of course they had no concern for her twin brother who was joining her. The assumption that a little girl couldn't possibly survive on a monkey bar five feet up was beyond ridiculous, yet multiple women were indignant that I would allow such a thing to happen. ( My daughter never fell once in all the years we went to that park ). Women destroy their children's confidence and independence today.

They will tell their child it's ok that some people are homosexuals, but God forbid you should be allowed to be alone in their company. ☹️

Edited May 18, 2023 by pubic_assistance
grammar

[pubic_assistance]

5 hours ago, FreshFluff said:

People at the time weren’t really concerned about 15 year old boys having sex with 19 year old women.

Nor should they be. When I was a freshman I was dating a senior when so I was 15 / she was 18 . After she graduated and she turned 19 I was still 15 for a few months so I supposed by today's standards, I was a victim of rape, simply because I was dating someone older.

[+ Coolwave35]

25 minutes ago, pubic_assistance said:

When I was a freshman I was dating a senior when so I was 15 / she was 18 . After she graduated and she turned 19 I was still 15 for a few months so I supposed by today's standards, I was a victim of rape, simply because I was dating someone older.

In my view, you were. By todays standards and yesteryears.  Standard belief among mental health professionals for sexual relationships when under 18 years is within 2 years. Supposedly a 15 and 13 year old can explore. A 16 and 14 year old. A 13 and 9 year old can’t. A 15 and 11 year old shouldn’t.  
 

I can’t quote the other guy that thinks supervision stunts a child’s development, but I disagree as someone who was a victim of child molestation. Her motto is that the child can’t go off alone with an adult. Parties, playgrounds, BBQs are all fair game.  I get it. People suck. 

[pubic_assistance]

1 hour ago, Coolwave35 said:

Standard belief among mental health professionals for sexual relationships when under 18 years is within 2 years.

Yup. I know that. Yet I have no regret and no sense that I was "raped". I was the happiest teenager in the world to have started out my sex life with someone older and more experienced.

I went on in the same manner when I started exploring homosexuality with someone who was 40 when I was 20.

Also, a very positive experience for me, leaving me with absolutely no regret, only many fond memories.

I always felt this 2 year rule was an archaic remnant of the puritanical 1950s.  Maybe I'm wrong. But in my case, I feel greatly blessed to have had both experiences with these people.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, pubic_assistance said:

...I always felt this 2 year rule was an archaic remnant of the puritanical 1950s...

This varies widely from state to state (and obviously from country to country). California has one of the strictest in the planet, where it's 18 regardless, at least in theory, though there are plenty of teens who are having sex.

[pubic_assistance]

7 minutes ago, Unicorn said:

....it's 18 regardless, at least in theory, though there are plenty of teens who are having sex.

There were quite a few teachers in my years at High School, who were sleeping with students. Both gay ( women and men ) and heterosexual ( both women and men ). At the time, I only knew about a few ( my cousin at 16 sleeping with a 30 year old English teacher and one of my gay friends at 17 sleeping with a 26 year old English teacher. ) Over the years, we all discovered that no less than EIGHT of our classmates were sleeping with teachers. Two ended up marrying them !  And this was Central PA, deep in Pennsylvania Dutch ( Deitsch ) country. With deeply religious families populating most of the town. Even in the 1970s the place felt more like the 1950s. But by the 1980's many of my classmates were extremely sexually active.

Edited May 18, 2023 by pubic_assistance
grammar

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, pubic_assistance said:

There were quite a few teachers in my years at High School, who were sleeping with students. Both gay ( women and men ) and heterosexual ( both women and men ). At the time, I only knew about a few ( my cousin at 16 sleeping with a 30 year old English teacher and one of my gay friends at 17 sleeping with a 26 year old English teacher. ) Over the years, we all discovered that no less than EIGHT of our classmates were sleeping with teachers. Two ended up marrying them !  And this was Central PA, deep in Pennsylvania Dutch ( Deitsch ) country. With deeply religious families populating most of the town. Even in the 1970s the place felt more like the 1950s. But by the 1980's many of my classmates were extremely sexually active.

Under Pennsylvania law, a defendant is strictly liable for the offense of rape, a felony of the first degree, when the complainant is 12 or younger. Pennsylvania has enacted several other strict liability sexual offenses when the complainant is under 16, but 13 years old or older.

§ 3122.1. Statutory sexual assault.

Except as provided in section 3121 (relating to rape), a person commits a felony of the second degree when that person engages in sexual intercourse with a complainant under the age of 16 years and that person is four or more years older than the complainant and the complainant and the person are not married to each other.

§ 3125 Aggravated indecent assault

(7) the complainant is less than 13 years of age; or (8) the complainant is less than 16 years of age and the person is four or more years older than the complainant and the complainant and the person are not married to each other. (b) Aggravated indecent assault of a child.--A person commits aggravated indecent assault of a child when the person violates subsection (a)(1), (2), (3), (4), (5) or (6) and the complainant is less than 13 years of age.

§ 3123 Involuntary deviate sexual intercourse

(7) who is less than 16 years of age and the person is four or more years older than the complainant and the complainant and person are not married to each other.

When the alleged victim is 16 or older and less than 18 years of age, and the alleged offender is over the age of 18, the Commonwealth may charge the offense of corruption of minors or unlawful contact with a minor, even if the activity was consensual:

So the way I see the law, if you were 15, and he was 3.5 years older than you, that should be legal per PA law.

[pubic_assistance]

50 minutes ago, Unicorn said:

the way I see the law, if you were 15, and he was 3.5 years older than you, that should be legal per PA law.

Obviously I never paid much attention to the law ...I just wanted to get my dick wet. ( plus I genuinely liked this girl ). To this day, I understood that I would have been in violation of the law.  I wonder if the law as of 2023 is the same as it was in 1986. Interesting to know. Thanks @Unicorn for doing the research.

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

The saying "Age is just a number" should be revised to "Age is just a number - that the government keeps track of".

 

 

[+ Coolwave35]

6 hours ago, pubic_assistance said:

Yup. I know that. Yet I have no regret and no sense that I was "raped". I was the happiest teenager in the world to have started out my sex life with someone older and more experienced.

Oh I understand this completely. I too had a few sexual experiences when I was 15-17 with significantly older gay men that I thought I was learning the ropes from. It wasn’t til years later that I started looking at that through a different lens and feel that they were far more predatory than mentoring. I’ve learned a lot around consent that has made me look back less fondly on those experiences. As a result, I’m a firm believer than anyone under 18 lacks the capacity to consent to sexual experiences with anyone outside of that 2 year window, without exception. I’m cool agreeing to disagree.  
 

This process around consent has really shaped the way I make sexual offers to strippers, seeking boys and escorts. It’s changed the game for me and made those experiences far more fulfilling. 

[pubic_assistance]

1 hour ago, Coolwave35 said:

I’m a firm believer than anyone under 18 lacks the capacity to consent to sexual experiences with anyone outside of that 2 year window, without exception. I’m cool agreeing to disagree.  

I am quite sure there are many viewpoints due to many varied experiences.

My gay friend who was sleeping with the teacher, was at the time over-the-moon happy. He wasn't the most handsome guy and had grown up with an abusive father. The affection that this older man gave him, brought a light to his face, and I remember there was an absolutely positive change to his demeanor.  Always smiling and happy.  Years later, his memory spun around in the opposite direction and speaks only of that period of time as having been a victim, "used" by a predatory teacher. When he first said this to me (we were in our 40's by then). I had to spend a few minutes trying to digest what he was saying because I remembered everything he was saying in a COMPLETELY different way. It was like driving through a parallel universe with him.  Completely bizarre experience because I was present for much of their time together as we were both on the debate team and the teacher was our debate coach.  (They would slip off together after meets and/or practices with an offer to "drive him home".)

Edited May 19, 2023 by pubic_assistance
grammar

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

Age 18 for sexual consent is such a 20th/21st century idea.  For most of human history, civilized humans were often married in their mid-teenage years.

Therefore, I'm more inclined to support legislation that treats sexual consent at 12, 14, 16, and 18 differently rather than a hard cut off at 18.  This is in line with my overall philosophy of getting young humans out into the world unsupervised earlier than age 18 to work, to navigate, to learn, to explore, to live.

[pubic_assistance]

6 minutes ago, Vegas_Millennial said:

Age 18 for sexual consent is such a 20th/21st century idea

Absolutely.

Under no circumstances do I look back at my early sexual adventures at 14 and think: OMG I was just a child.  My memory is of absolute confidence in being in control of the situation and being happy I was with someone who was more experienced to guide me.  A very happy memory and a positive experience in my sexual awakening. 

Edited May 18, 2023 by pubic_assistance
grammar

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Vegas_Millennial said:

Age 18 for sexual consent is such a 20th/21st century idea.  For most of human history, civilized humans were often married in their mid-teenage years.

Therefore, I'm more inclined to support legislation that treats sexual consent at 12, 14, 16, and 18 differently rather than a hard cut off at 18.  This is in line with my overall philosophy of getting young humans out into the world unsupervised earlier than age 18 to work, to navigate, to learn, to explore, to live.

I agree to a certain degree. I don't think it should be OK to pay someone under 18 for sex, nor for a high school teacher (or health care worker) to have sex with a minor under his care. But certainly it's possible for a 15 year-old to want sex and seek it out. When minors are involved, one does have to look at the situation more closely. However, a blanket statement that no one under 18 could possibly agree to have sex is clearly factually incorrect and ridiculous. 

[+ Coolwave35]

4 hours ago, Unicorn said:

However, a blanket statement that no one under 18 could possibly agree to have sex is clearly factually incorrect and ridiculous. 

Agreed!  Thankfully no one here is saying anything that ludicrous.