Immigration at Montreal - WTF ?

[12is12]

I noticed there was a lot of writing about visas and saving time, but I didn't pay attention; my travel agent had unfortunately told me there'd b no problem after pre-paying online for the visa. 

After landing and scanning my passport, I was directed to sit & wait in "immigration 1" room. They said that all non citizens and non permanent residents r required to do so. 

I waited for two hours with about 80 people, 95% of which seemed 'immigrational suspicious'. [I'm a 65 y/o white, and showed them my outbound flight ticket.] When my turn came up, I was asked the same 3 quick questions asked around the globe, and waived thru. 

It took so much time because for the first 90 minutes only 1 booth was operational. The rest of the officers were mainly chatting among themselves, ignoring the waiting crowd. It was almost insulting.

Besides venting my frustration, I'm really asking: why is Canada's system so obnoxious? I travel a lot; have never had such an ordeal, including in very bureaucratic or highly disorganized countries....

[+ tassojunior]

Montreal is an aberration in that it doesn't let you transit to international connecting flights without immigrating into Canada first. Toronto allows transit. The problem is Canada is the only country that has the US FBI's NCIC "criminal" record of every American's life history. If you have on your record anything that is considered "serious" in Canada, like a DUI, not just felonies, you are banned from Canada and will be sent back to the US and not allowed to connect.  But Air Canada will sell you the ticket without any warning. I've had several friends caught up in this and once I was with one who had a DUI when very young and I was interrogated about my connection to him and his "criminal behavior". 

[DWnyc]

2 hours ago, 12is12 said:

 

I waited for two hours with about 80 people, 95% of which seemed 'immigrational suspicious'. [I'm a 65 y/o white, and showed them my outbound flight ticket.]

I’m sure you didn’t mean it this way, but some might read this and assume you’re saying because of your age and demographic you should be exempt from scrutiny … 

[12is12]

Almost all countries scrutanize those deemed to b prospective violaters. Statistics show they usually come NOT from rich countries, and r NOT beyond working age.

[SirBillybob]

Long story short: Vast in numbers 2.5-week federal employee strike just settled this week; most groups had been without a labour contract for 2 years. Passport application, federal taxation, and Immigration (residency aspect outside of tourist travel visas etc) ground to a halt. I need to renew passport imminently for already paid upcoming travel this year, so am relieved.

In contrast, border control officers had a 4-year deal up to 2022 (8% in increments over 4 years), are without a contract, and were not included in the active labour dispute. They also have different rules for strike prerogative.

The former groups just negotiated bigger hikes based on more recent higher cost-of-living inflation, and stand to receive a nice little retro bundle of cash. 12.6% in increments over 4 years and a 3.7% one-time bonus. Much of it will be taxed at higher marginal income rates. 

Just speculating (emphasis on second-guessing), but the cluster-‘socializing’ (ahem, consulting in the interests of national safety, etc) that increases wait time may be an artefact of these dynamics. It would be understandable that they may be disgruntled about being somewhat left in the dust Cost of Living Adjustment-wise. Work-to-rule is usually not viable leverage, more just the way collectives’ hive-brains operate. There may be a broad cascade effect within labour unions beyond the 150,000 federal employees that recently walked out.

For added perspective, Canadian seniors received a 6.3 % bump in traditional pension for this year alone and my private pension increased by over 10% combining last year and this year. Mind you, almost half of these increases are confiscated in tax in my case.

Edited May 5, 2023 by SirBillybob

[Guest]

I've traveled to at least half of the world's countries, and have found Canadian immigration authorities to be the most obnoxious I've encountered (2nd goes to the Caymans). Someone might want to educate Canadian immigration officers that they are the first face and give the original impression of their country. Their attitude does not endear me to more frequent visits to the country. I travel on a US passport and have never been convicted of a crime (or even charged), other than minor traffic infractions. Yet I had my luggage searched when driving over the Rainbow Bridge (of all places) when I was in my mid-30s. The only other place I've had my luggage searched was when I entered Japan at the age of 21. I've also had them make me recite my hotels during my stay when flying into Montreal (in my 40s), and also have me give a detailed account of why I was driving from Theodore Roosevelt National Park to Regina, including places I'd been to in North Dakota, and where I was going in Canada. That was in my mid-50s. I got treated more respectfully in China, Russia, and Singapore. 

I'll say that I don't look forward to crossing the border into Canada, except when arriving by cruise ship (like at the end of an Alaskan cruise). Countries should remember that they're privileged to receive foreigners' hard-earned money, not the other way around. 

[+ Lucky]

Second that on how rude Canadian immigration is to Americans.

[SirBillybob]

I don’t think they are any nicer to Canadians. I get grilled and sometimes luggage contents pulled apart when returning to Canada from longstay South America winter trips and I’ve been a retired ‘snowbird’ escaping the cold for many years. With passport renewal coming up and a clean stamp slate perhaps they won’t see pages upon pages of that trip history that prompts them to ask why I always go to Latin America. The last thorough luggage check recently, however, was a very nice sociable female officer, though I prefer a hot young male to handle my douche bulb and dozens of unused condoms. 

[SirBillybob]

.

[+ azdr0710]

at my one-and-only (so far) entry to MTL in 2016, I admit I didn't know how to use the passport self-scanner and somewhat loudly expressed this.....passport was manually checked by a human, but I was then directed to have my luggage inspected......I wasn't intensely interrogated, luggage check was fairly quick, staff was humorless, and I was on my way.....

however, during a crossing at Carway, AB, to go use the nearest (to Glacier Natl Park) library computer (yes, years ago) at Cardston, AB, the very helpful Canadian officer gave me directions and even suggested the Subway I was hoping for lunch at.....the Subway even took my greenback

[Luv2play]

I don't do much international travel any more but in the day I didn't find Canadian customs and immigration officials much different from American. The last time I came through at Ottawa from Newark on Air Canada just before the pandemic, it was a breeze. 

Back in the dark ages, during the height of the AIDs crisis in the 1980's, being gay and flying into the US or even driving, one had to watch what one said at customs as the American border officials were on the lookout for any hint you might be gay.

A friend I was travelling with to NY in 1986 for his ex-lover's funeral, who had died in NY from AIDs, got held up at the border for quite a period because he said he was going to a funeral. I said I was going for pleasure and was waved through.

Edited May 6, 2023 by Luv2play

[+ SundayZip]

Maybe I'm an aberration but I've gone through Canadian customs at least 30 times (Vancouver, Alberta, Toronto, Montreal) and have never been inconvenienced any more than in any other countries. There's been long lines when several international flights have landed at about the same time, but that happens everywhere.

[+ Pensant]

I would agree that Canada can be rough. Once across the border, it’s Nirvana.

[+ Lucky]

On one visit to Montreal, my partner and I were separated and interrogated. When finally released, they wouldn't say what the reason was. Sure gets a trip off to a bad start.

Vancouver was rude too, but no separation.

Edited May 6, 2023 by Lucky
sp

[DWnyc]

14 hours ago, Unicorn said:

Countries should remember that they're privileged to receive foreigners' hard-earned money, not the other way around. 

As a proud US citizen I’d say we are generally no better.

Most of us who are American perhaps don’t have experience of what it’s like to enter as a non citizen. It may differ by geography but JFK and EWR are not that pleasant to the arriving foreigner after a long flight trying to figure out where to go from poor signage and officials shouting at you as you look lost or if you ask a question. And the actual immigration questioning can be quite insulting - Ive overheard and been told by others some dialog that I’d be horrified if asked of me.

I’ve often had the same thoughts  you express - Ie - why should this be the first experience many foreigners have of our great country and it certainly doesn’t represent our hospitality once people leave immigration … but also that we should be grateful for those bringing tourism and business dollars into the US. 

4 more countries and I’ll be in triple digits- my personal experiences  are  not scientific but they are enough to say there are many countries with security and economic migrant concerns as pressing as ours who treat guests more respectfully while still ensuring their own policies are followed.

But with all this being said I don’t have patience for anyone claiming they are not a risk so why should they be subjected to what are acceptable procedures when visiting others. When I’ve had bad experiences at security or immigration or customs in other countries I’ve put it down to the unfortunate reality of travel and that while they should be grateful for my dollars I should be a gracious guest as well and respect their policies and laws. 

I’ll cite Israel as an interesting example - extreme security both when entering and leaving  (“emigration” controls, a rarity) yet all the times I’ve been in and out, there’s been a thanks for my cooperation, a request to understand that these procedures are necessary for the greater good etc leaving me feeling empathetic rather than annoyed and like my time was wasted. 

[+ nycman]

Flown all over the world. 
Only two times have I had any problems.....yep....both Canada. 
Once arriving in Montreal and once in Calgary.

I am wildly polite when detained, for any reason, anywhere in the world.  
Nonetheless, both times they seemed to get off on being dicks to an American. 
Both times it was a lot of huffing, puffing, and posturing that went on for hours
....over nothing. 

C'est la vie. 

As a result of the bizarre treatment, I no longer make an annual ski trip to
the Canadian Rockies and I only visit Montreal under duress. 

I doubt they care. 

 

 

Edited May 6, 2023 by nycman

[Guest]

5 hours ago, DWnyc said:

As a proud US citizen I’d say we are generally no better...

I’ll cite Israel as an interesting example...

Well, I've never seen whataboutism as a persuasive argument, but, of course, by definition, I don't know what it's like to enter the US as a foreigner. Yes, Israel is one of the countries I've visited (in my late 40s), and it was a breeze compared to Canada. I would think that the US probably has the greatest number of visa overstayers in the world (though I can't find the statistics--maybe someone here can find them), certainly more than Canada's. In fact, I remember reading in the newspaper not long ago that fewer than 10% of those coming illegally to the US ever try to go through to Canada. Many risk their lives and even die getting to the US, some even making the extraordinarily arduous and dangerous trip through the Darién Gap, yet few bother to cross the completely unguarded border into Canada. In other words, most people would rather face death than live in Canada. And few would argue that Israel faces greater threats than Canada. 

Of course, if the immigration authorities in the US are rude towards Canadians, that doesn't mean it's intelligent for Canada to behave similarly. I'd be curious to hear about the experiences from members who come from countries which don't require a visa to either country (EU, UK, Aussies, Kiwis, Japanese, South Koreans, Chileans, etc.) who've entered both countries at least twice, to see how the experience compares. That being said, I'm quite well-traveled, and can speak with confidence that Canada's experience going through immigration needs improvement if they would (wisely) like to promote more tourism. 

[DWnyc]

19 minutes ago, Unicorn said:

Well, I've never seen whataboutism as a persuasive argument,

And you’re not seeing it now.

Many current US citizens (around 14% I believe) were not so at birth (I am one of them), so may have experience of entering as a non US citizen in the past as well, or have non US citizen relatives, spouses etc so can speak to that from personal experience. 

 

[+ azdr0710]

I doubt an "improved" Canadian immigration process would either increase or decrease tourism......legal pleasure visitors to any country virtually never make travel decisions based on what it's like to go thru customs/immigration......yes, there may be a very few number of individuals who have such a horrible experience that they say, "never again"........most experienced international travelers expect that there may be a grumpy immigration officer, a balky scanner, long lines, some questions, confusion about which line to get in........

admittedly, I've only entered Canada once via an airport......

Edited May 6, 2023 by azdr0710

[DWnyc]

28 minutes ago, Unicorn said:

In other words, most people would rather face death than live in Canada. 

 

Seriously? Hard to have a serious discussion if that’s an argument! 

Theres a practical reason the demographic you’re describing head to the US rather than aim for Canada.

The same reason most refugee / economic migrants to the EU enter through Greece, Italy and Spain rather than Sweden. 

[DWnyc]

8 minutes ago, azdr0710 said:

I doubt an "improved" Canadian immigration process would either increase or decrease tourism......legal pleasure visitors to any country virtually never make travel decisions based on what it's like to go thru customs/immigration......yes, there may be a very few number of individuals who have such a horrible experience that they say, "never again"........most experienced international travelers expect that there may be a grumpy immigration officer, a balky scanner, long lines, some questions, confusion about which line to get in........

admittedly, I've only entered Canada once via an airport......

I go to Canada 12+ times a year - usually  flying into Halifax, Montreal, Toronto, or Vancouver and crossing by land at Niagara, Detroit/Windsor, and Vermont/Quebec frequently as well. 

Never had any issue whatsoever apart from the time I mistakenly was trying to cross with pepperoni pizza in the back of my car that I had forgotten to throw out m and it meant I had filled out my agriculture declaration form incorrectly. My bad and I was given the choice of pulling over and eating the pepperoni pieces before entering or throwing them away in the garbage can by the entry booth in which case they would excuse my error and let me proceed. 

Everyone’s experiences can be different .,, 

 

[+ azdr0710]

27 minutes ago, DWnyc said:

I go to Canada 12+ times a year - usually  flying into Halifax, Montreal, Toronto, or Vancouver and crossing by land at Niagara, Detroit/Windsor, and Vermont/Quebec frequently as well. 

Never had any issue whatsoever apart from the time I mistakenly was trying to cross with pepperoni pizza in the back of my car that I had forgotten to throw out m and it meant I had filled out my agriculture declaration form incorrectly. My bad and I was given the choice of pulling over and eating the pepperoni pieces before entering or throwing them away in the garbage can by the entry booth in which case they would excuse my error and let me proceed. 

Everyone’s experiences can be different .,, 

 

Wait!!  What'd you do with the pizza??!

[TorontoDrew]

Entering the US from Canada has been a pain for me for years.  I always get sent to secondary screening despite having a Nexus card and a Redress Number.  They have scans of my retinas and my fingerprints.  I've never been refused entry nor have I committed any offenses.  I've been to about 30 other countries and breeze right through.  Just the US.

[DWnyc]

1 hour ago, azdr0710 said:

Wait!!  What'd you do with the pizza??!

Immigration officer: “Que ferez-vous monsieur?” (Thought I’d add that for dramatic effect)

Me (seeing the line of backed up cars I’d have to join if I leave and try to come back): “ I’m going to throw away the pizza, officer”

(get out of the car, throw the pizza away, kicking myself at the waste)

Him: “Good choice, Monsieur. Welcome to Canada. Our pizza is better, please enjoy your stay, and your dinner”

[SirBillybob]

I get pulled aside for luggage check about 1 in every 10 times returning to Canada from South America. There seems to be a bit of curiosity about why a retired snowbird’s passport is stamped primarily according to mainly Brazil trips rather than the usual go-to for Québecois: Cancun, Varadero, or Punta Cana (ick!). I assume the pieces of that puzzle come together when they rifle through my Air Canada kit exclusively containing douche bulb, KY, sani-wipes, dozens of yet unopened condoms, and a small tiny battery-operated auto-timer (seriously). So far, I have received no comment. Although maybe I should separate the timer and put it with a muffin recipe.

The last officer recently was a pleasant sociable young woman. I apologized that I realized that I had brought in an apple and nuts from South America. She said it wasn’t a problem and did not confiscate them. 

Edited May 6, 2023 by SirBillybob