The Ups and Downs of Airlines and Air Travel

[pubic_assistance]

On 1/8/2023 at 8:38 AM, BenjaminNicholas said:

On 1/6/2023 at 8:51 PM, pubic_assistance said:

Air travel today, is humiliating unless you're paying for the ultra luxury of private jet travel .

Today?  It's been what it's been for awhile now.  Decades, in fact.

It's been a steady decline for the last two decades. Agreed.

But I have to say we have pretty much hit bottom. I can't imagine a more uncomfortable environment if they tried. Most standard American brand carriers are a joke with the exception of JetBlue's international flights.

[+ nycman]

11 hours ago, azdr0710 said:

for those curious, like me.......

https://www.qantas.com/au/en/about-us/our-company/fleet/qantaslink-a220.html

 

Wait…. @mike carey is squealing over a domestic flight with "ok" business seats?

Something is wrong. Can someone go check on him?

grin

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

3 hours ago, pubic_assistance said:

It's been a steady decline for the last two decades. Agreed.

But I have to say we have pretty much hit bottom. I can't imagine a more uncomfortable environment if they tried. Most standard American brand carriers are a joke with the exception of JetBlue's international flights.

I've never been the biggest fan of B6. 

They do a fine domestic product with enthusiastic crews, but having flown in Mint Studio overseas, the seat wasn't designed well for a tall/muscular guy.  It had little privacy due to the very tight herringbone design of cabin seating.

I will say their catering is solid.  And the FAs are some of the nicest out there.  Very happy employees.

 

[+ azdr0710]

1 hour ago, BenjaminNicholas said:

I've never been the biggest fan of B6. 

They do a fine domestic product with enthusiastic crews, but having flown in Mint Studio overseas, the seat wasn't designed well for a tall/muscular guy.  It had little privacy due to the very tight herringbone design of cabin seating.

I will say their catering is solid.  And the FAs are some of the nicest out there.  Very happy employees.

 

keep in mind that JetBlue is still considered a "low-cost" carrier to some, so don't expect even their Mint thing to be utterly impressive.....I certainly agree about enthusiastic FAs.....on my one and only time on JetBlue (they are not dominant in my area), a male FA happily offered to put my carry-on in the overhead as I sauntered down the aisle......though I'm able-bodied and capable, that was an impressive surprise and has never been seen by me, otherwise........the overall vibe of JetBlue seemed pleasant and happy and happy employees are crucial to successful companies......

Edited March 8, 2024 by azdr0710

[mike carey]

10 hours ago, nycman said:

Wait…. @mike carey is squealing over a domestic flight with "ok" business seats?

Something is wrong. Can someone go check on him?

grin

Lol, my sincere thanks for your concern, and you didn't mention that it's a short domestic flight. I can assure you that the traveller in me is significantly less excited than the avgeekish part. It's a new aircraft type for Australia and an aeroplane that has been widely greeted in the FF blogs as being innovative in its 'passenger experience' (to use the jargon). I won't be wearing a Qantas A220 t-shirt by the pool at InnDulge!

[mike carey]

On 3/9/2024 at 11:20 AM, mike carey said:

Lol, my sincere thanks for your concern, and you didn't mention that it's a short domestic flight. I can assure you that the traveller in me is significantly less excited than the avgeekish part. It's a new aircraft type for Australia and an aeroplane that has been widely greeted in the FF blogs as being innovative in its 'passenger experience' (to use the jargon). I won't be wearing a Qantas A220 t-shirt by the pool at InnDulge!

Well, that didn't happen, IRROPS intervened!

My flight home was scheduled to be from LAX to Melbourne but unexpected headwinds resulted in it diverting to Sydney. Easy, refuel and go on, right? Well no. Given the circumstances Qantas handled it reasonably well.

Whether the result of crew duty and an inordinate delay that would have occasioned or the requirements of Australian immigration and customs we had to collect our bags and clear arrival formalities in Sydney. Whether they chose the best solution is a separate question, but their execution of the arrangements were a case study in how to recover well and at the same time a text book example of how to fuck up the communications.

On the aeroplane on arrival the flight crew told us that the flight would terminate in Sydney but they didn't know whether the aircraft would continue to Melbourne with a different flight number (and they didn't address what passengers whose destination was Sydney would do) or we'd clear customs and be rebooked on domestic flights (SYD-MEL is one of the five busiest airport pairs in the world, so onward flights wouldn't be too hard). Fairly quickly the 'clear customs' option was confirmed and we were told an extra SYD-MEL flight had been scheduled (and that SYD pax were free to collect their bags and leave). So far so good.

Quickly the 'shit happens' fairy intervened. The queues for the passport checking machines were slow, but eventually I had cleared it and had my entry ticket in my hand. Then, a problem! The automatic final entry gates hadn't been programmed to expect QF94 pax in Sydney so they didn't work and we had to queue again to be cleared by an immigration officer. Sigh, beyond Qantas' control but not a good look, nor a good first impression for visitors.

Once through that baggage collection and customs took moments (comparatively), and at the Qantas domestic bag drop/check-in area they had reconfigured it to handle our flight separately from other pax, that was smooth and the line kept moving, albeit not at an express pace.

While what we were told by the crew and ground handling staff was accurate (and importantly told us if they didn't yet know something), the overall communications were appalling, as the digital comms were invariably at odds with what actual people were telling us (I have no idea whether the digital part had any human input or if it was all system-generated, but I don't care, it was wrong, incorrect texts, incorrect e-mails that didn't actually matter as I didn't see them till I was home, and incorrect information on their app, but hey, the digital comms all said the same [wrong] thing!).

Surprisingly, not everyone was as sanguine about what was happening as I was and there were plenty of 'worst airline ever', 'totally incompetent' and 'I'll never fly Qantas again' comments being thrown about. There was also a fair amount of unfortunate near-abusive commentary directed at the ground staff member there to answer questions.

I had to laugh, in the five hours after we landed in Sydney, I received 10 (ten) text messages telling me the supposed timing for the new QF94 from Sydney International Terminal to Melbourne, the last when I was in baggage claim in Canberra!

Inconvenient for many, I'm sure, distressing for some who travel rarely, no doubt, but if you could step back for a moment it was interesting to observe the responses, both corporate and individual, and not for the first time I saw a sort of camaraderie among the people going through the 'ordeal'. Okay, so I didn't get my first A220 flight, but I was booked onto a Sydney-Canberra flight, and was home before I would have been on my original schedule. Oh, and I didn't lose the points upgrade I'd scored on the MEL-CBR flight, they put me in J to Canberra.

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

44 minutes ago, mike carey said:

Inconvenient for many, I'm sure, distressing for some who travel rarely, no doubt, but if you could step back for a moment it was interesting to observe the responses, both corporate and individual, and not for the first time I saw a sort of camaraderie among the people going through the 'ordeal'. Okay, so I didn't get my first A220 flight, but I was booked onto a Sydney-Canberra flight, and was home before I would have been on my original schedule. Oh, and I didn't lose the points upgrade I'd scored on the MEL-CBR flight, they put me in J to Canberra.

And this, in a nutshell, is what separates the wheat from the chaff in the frequent flier world:  People either know enough to be proactive, get themselves protected and sit patiently, or they go fully batshit crazy, letting their anger get the best of them and making all sorts of wacky comments.

I'd love to see most of them never do business with QF again.  Doubt they could make that happen.

You're a trooper Mike 👍

I tip my hat to you knowing full-well that you almost universally have long haul flights if you want to get anywhere.  When the shit hits your fan, it's a gigantic dump and a very powerful fan.

[edinbrooklyn]

I’ve been in the BA family for years, out of necessity.  Heathrow was a bit of a disaster post-Brexit/lockdown but it has improved at least for business travel. Moving to AF now that I can travel more flexibly. Air travel within the US has always been unpleasant.

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

4 hours ago, edinbrooklyn said:

I’ve been in the BA family for years, out of necessity.  Heathrow was a bit of a disaster post-Brexit/lockdown but it has improved at least for business travel. Moving to AF now that I can travel more flexibly. Air travel within the US has always been unpleasant.

I flew British Airways (BA) business class (Club World) for the first time last year on my first flight to Europe.  I was impressed with everything BA had to offer.  However, it was queer that London Heathrow (LHR) required passengers to go through security again to fly on to destinations within Europe; and, I found the boarding areas strange as well.  Passengers were processed by boarding group into a waiting lounge, then were all let onto the jetway at once when the plane arrived.  But the quality and diversity of business class lounges for intercontinental passengers impressed me enough to compensate for the oddities of LHR.

[edinbrooklyn]

The second round of security is an EU, post Brexit thing. It’s become a lot more efficient. But still . . .

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

1 hour ago, Vegas_Millennial said:

I flew British Airways (BA) business class (Club World) for the first time last year on my first flight to Europe.  I was impressed with everything BA had to offer.  However, it was queer that London Heathrow (LHR) required passengers to go through security again to fly on to destinations within Europe; and, I found the boarding areas strange as well.  Passengers were processed by boarding group into a waiting lounge, then were all let onto the jetway at once when the plane arrived.  But the quality and diversity of business class lounges for intercontinental passengers impressed me enough to compensate for the oddities of LHR.

LHR T3 has some of the best airline lounges in the world.

Cathay F and Qantas are my favorites: Always a stop at both (one for noodles, the other for gin) when flying out of LHR.

Were you on a BA flight with the 'new' Club Suite?

https://thepointsguy.com/reviews/british-airways-club-suites-777/

I've flown in them twice and as a tall guy, the doors didn't help it feel spacious to me.  Not excited about all J-class products now going to these flimsy sliding doors, but clearly I'm in the minority on this.  

What I did like was BA's flight crew.  They were fantastic.

 

[edinbrooklyn]

13 minutes ago, BenjaminNicholas said:

LHR T3 has some of the best airline lounges in the world.

Cathay F and Qantas are my favorites: Always a stop at both (one for noodles, the other for gin) when flying out of LHR.

Were you on a BA flight with the 'new' Club Suite?

https://thepointsguy.com/reviews/british-airways-club-suites-777/

I've flown in them twice and as a tall guy, the doors didn't help it feel spacious to me.  Not excited about all J-class products now going to these flimsy sliding doors, but clearly I'm in the minority on this.  

What I did like was BA's flight crew.  They were fantastic.

 

I don’t get the appeal of the doors. The first time I saw them I thought “prison pods,” worse actually . . . 

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

31 minutes ago, BenjaminNicholas said:

LHR T3 has some of the best airline lounges in the world.

I agree.  Although my airline lounge experience is minimal (only 8 lounges visited to date), my own conclusion was that LHR T3 has some of the best.  The only better lounge experience I had was at Sydney; and that was partly because I wasn't even aware of airport lounges before that trip.

31 minutes ago, BenjaminNicholas said:

Cathay F and Qantas are my favorites: Always a stop at both (one for noodles, the other for gin) when flying out of LHR.

I spent my time at Cathay Business Class.  The showers and shower amenities alone were a memorable experience!  I'm not much of a noodle fan so my plan was to use the showers at Cathay then hop on over to Quantas for their food and drink.  But I stayed at Cathay Business the entire time because Quantas was at capacity the day I was at LHR.

31 minutes ago, BenjaminNicholas said:

Were you on a BA flight with the 'new' Club Suite?

 

Were you on a BA flight with the 'new' Club Suite?

Yes, I was.  As a big and tall guy myself, I was amazed at how small I made the enclosed suite look in a picture!  Like jam on an English Muffin, I filled every nook and cranny 😂.  WestJet had a similar seat product on my return trip, but without the door I believe, and I found it just as comfortable if not more so.  The door really doesn't matter to me now that I've experienced it.

31 minutes ago, BenjaminNicholas said:

What I did like was BA's flight crew.  They were fantastic.

I've always had fantastic flight crew flying Business or First Class.  What set British Airways above the rest, for me, was the food and drink selection and quality compared to other airlines.  And, it was the first time I ever ate a full English Breakfast, which was delightful 🙂

For comparison, I've only flown long haul business class on British Airways, WestJet, and Hawaiian Airlines.  This autumn I fly Air Canada business class for the first time.

Edited April 25, 2024 by Vegas_Millennial

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

19 minutes ago, edinbrooklyn said:

I don’t get the appeal of the doors. The first time I saw them I thought “prison pods,” worse actually . . . 

I didn't mind the suite doors, I just won't go out of my way to choose an airline that has them.

[mike carey]

Airlines have their ups and downs, and today is one of those days for Qantas.

Qantas has agreed to settle a Federal Court action by the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission in which the airline had been alleged to have sold seats on thousand flights of it had already decided to cancel. The airline will set up a fund of $AU20m to recompense about 87,000 affected passengers, about $250 for domestic tickets and $450 international. Qantas has also agreed to pay a civil penalty (aka fine) of $100m. The arrangement is subject to formal approval by the Federal Court, but the payments to passengers will proceed regardless of that outcome.

The effect of the ghost flights was far greater in the perception the story evoked than in actuality. For the most part passengers were rebooked without huge inconvenience as they were on relatively busy routes, but on international routes they were often not on the same day. None of that is to minimise the annoyance, anxiety and real inconvenience many suffered.

Settling the case is a further (not farther) part of the massive reputational recovery effort that the new CEO has had to undertake after the controversial administration of her predecessor.

[+ nycman]

Today I got an email from British Airways apologizing for losing my luggage on an overnight flight last night…..

All my bags are sitting next to me in my hotel room.

Morons. 

[mike carey]

4 hours ago, nycman said:

Today I got an email from British Airways apologizing for losing my luggage on an overnight flight last night…..

All my bags are sitting next to me in my hotel room.

Morons. 

Save it so you have some solace when they lose your bags and don't send an e-mail.

[+ José Soplanucas]

4 hours ago, nycman said:

Today I got an email from British Airways apologizing for losing my luggage on an overnight flight last night…..

All my bags are sitting next to me in my hotel room.

Morons. 

Put on your Karen Wig and demand a financial retribution for your loss!

[CuriousByNature]

16 hours ago, nycman said:

Today I got an email from British Airways apologizing for losing my luggage on an overnight flight last night…..

All my bags are sitting next to me in my hotel room.

Morons. 

Are you sure it was BA and not AirCanada?  We Canadians have a reputation for apologizing for things that haven't happened. 

[+ azdr0710]

On 7/22/2024 at 8:26 AM, Hundramos said:

I’ve been following these threads about the chaos in air travel, and it sounds like things are still pretty hit or miss. I’ve seen the same frustrations with delays and lost luggage, and it’s really wild how some airports are handling it.

On a recent trip, I used their service for a quick hop between cities. It was surprisingly smooth and made a huge difference compared to the usual airport drama. It’s nice to see a different approach working well, especially when the bigger airlines seem to be struggling with basic stuff.

Thanks, bot!

[+ PhileasFogg]

Despite the CloudStrike fiasco, I made it non-stop to Toronto on WestJet with a two hour delay on Friday.  I was not so lucky returning on Delta through Detroit late Monday with cancellation of YYZ-DTW leg.    Opting for Economy rather than FC, I was able to get home Tuesday with a non-stop on AirCanada.   Hearing the horror stories from Delta’s Atlanta hub, I’m counting myself lucky.  

I have yet to reach a living person at Delta despite Diamond Medallion status.   Usually I’m on hold less than five minutes, so it must be bad.   Glad I bought cancellation insurance. 

[+ azdr0710]

found a joke about Qantas in the comments section on my new favorite youtube travel channel (the flipfloptraveller).....this may be old to some and apologies to the few Aussies on the forum!!......

A man saw a gorgeous flight attendant sitting alone reading the paper in an international airport. He couldn’t quite pin down the exact airline, but he wanted to show off as a man of the world. He tried by saying Air France’s old motto. ‘Making the sky the best place on earth!’ The stewardess gave him the side eye but otherwise ignored him. Undeterred, he tried Singapore Airlines’. ‘A great way to fly!’ Again, he is received with icy silence. He decides to go for one last gambit with American Airlines. ‘Something special in the air?’ The stewardess, fuming by this point, slammed down her paper, turned right to him and yelled ‘What the £¥%# do you want?!’ ‘Ah ha!’ the man cried in realisation. ‘Qantas!’

[mike carey]

Virgin Australia went into administration in 2020 during the pandemic and was bought by Bain Capital. They have planned several dates to relist it on the stock exchange but haven't yet managed to do so. A week or so back Qatar Airways announced it was taking a 25% stake in Virgin, and under the deal it will wet lease jets to VA to resume long haul international flights, this time to Doha. This has been described as a sneaky, or alternatively 'elegant' work around to the Australian governments widely criticised rejection of a request last year to double their flights to Australia, a decision seen as being at the behest of Qantas and its Middle East partner Emirates. (Oddly Qatar is a fellow member of Oneworld with Qantas but already had a commercial arrangement with Virgin.)

The charm offensive with the government and public has now started in earnest. Hot on the heels of Qantas announcing repatriation charter flights for the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade from Cyprus for Australians evacuated from Lebanon (there are upward of 15,000 citizens and permanent residents there), Qatar announced that it too would operate charters. It's unclear what the financial arrangements are between the government and either airline, but both would have had to disrupt their schedules to some extent to operate the flights.

Qatar was the first to operate a flight, understandably as they had a shorter prepositioning flight than Qantas, and arrived in Sydney last night (Monday). The first Qantas flight arrived this morning. Qatar is staging through Doha, but Qantas is operating non-stop from Larnaca to Sydney in Boeing 787s, a slightly longer flight than their regular Perth to London flights. Flights on both charters are free for the passengers, and Qantas and Virgin are offering free onward travel to other Australian cities for passengers of Qantas and Qatar flights respectively.

[SirBillybob]

The wet lease in jets always flies better even given the shorter session. 

[mike carey]

An article from the Economist, perhaps not to be taken entirely seriously, on jet lag.

How to beat jet lag

And enjoy your journey as well

Illustration: Paul Blow

Oct 31st 2024 Listen to this story.

“You want to know the secret to surviving air travel?” the man sitting next to Bruce Willis on the plane asks in “Die Hard”, a film from 1988. “After you get to where you’re going, take off your shoes and your socks, then you walk around on the rug barefoot and make fists with your toes.”

Anyone who has flown across longitudes will be familiar with the havoc air travel plays on your circadian rhythms, causing you to jolt awake at four in the morning and tape your eyes open at four in the afternoon to keep from nodding off. Those in jobs that require them regularly to traverse the globe may find their brains muddled for days after every trip, leaving them tired, disoriented and at elevated risk of irate outbursts.

Less clear is what can be done about it. Dubious advice abounds, from eating chocolate for breakfast and taping plant seeds behind your ears to swallowing Viagra (though a study in 2007 did show that the “little blue pill” helped rodents to overcome jet leg faster). Does anything really help?

There are, unfortunately, no miracle cures for jet lag, despite an obvious market for one. Nevertheless, your guest Bartleby has a few tips you might find useful. If you can, be under the age of 25, though that trick may not work indefinitely. When heading from west to east, take a melatonin tablet and go to bed early for a few nights before you travel (you will almost certainly ignore this advice, as your columnist usually does); when travelling the other way, go to bed a few hours later (much more fun).

When you arrive, coffee or an equally caffeinated beverage will be essential. Remember, though, that there are limits: you may want to stop when your eye begins to twitch, for example. Drink plenty of water, too, as you will be desiccated from your flight. If it is daytime when you land, go for a stroll and soak up some sunlight to get those melatonin levels down. The fresh air will also help clear your head. If there is a pool or the sea nearby, head there for a swim. If you are travelling for business, all this is best done on company time.

The most important question, though, is what to do on the plane journeys to and from your destination. When you board, it is recommended that you turn left, head straight for a business- or first-class seat, wrap yourself in its superior blanket and raise your privacy screen. If you do not have a ticket to sit with the high-flyers it may still be worth a shot. Confidence is of the essence.

If, however, you are escorted back to your allotted position with the common folk, you will need a plan to put yourself to sleep at the right time to reset your body clock. Try another of those melatonin tablets or maybe some CBD oil. If you need something stronger, an antihistamine or prescription hypnotic should do the trick (and may come in handy in the days following your journey). Although such remedies should not be taken on a regular basis, they are to be embraced by those travelling long distances. And don’t forget your eye mask, earplugs and neck pillow.

Nobody wants jet lag to ruin their business trip or the days after they return. Neither, though, should you suffer excessively through your flight. Some suggest that fasting on a plane trip can lessen the effects of jet lag. That sounds to your columnist like a unique form of torture, no matter how dubious the quality of the food on offer may be (there are, after all, plenty of snacks to be had).

Better instead to try to enjoy your time on the plane and release a few endorphins. Flying has its hassles, but it also has its perks, not least of which is the chance to disconnect from the outside world and enjoy a few hours of respite from your responsibilities. A Bloody Mary before lunch followed by an episode or three of “The White Lotus” can turn a tiresome trip into a rare indulgence in a busy schedule. Ignore the in-flight Wi-Fi.

Ultimately, jet lag can be mitigated, but only to a degree. It is an inconvenient consequence of the very convenient fact that modern travellers can fly across multiple time zones in a matter of hours. Explorers who once crossed great distances by foot, boat or camel did not have to deal with jet lag, yet it is doubtful they would have chosen their mode of transport over an Airbus A380.

And after a few days even the most severe case of jet lag will ease and be forgotten. So do your best to relish the journey, despite its side-effects. And feel free to ignore any advice the passenger next to you might want to impart. ■