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The Ups and Downs of Airlines and Air Travel


mike carey

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There have been threads in the past about cheap fares, and problems with the B787 and then the B737 MAX, but post-Covid new 'issues' are presenting themselves. And some things are staying the same.

Over recent weeks the stories seem to be the same around the world: delays, bad service, airlines and airports seemingly forgetting how to operate their services, and baggage. Baggage! Bags not arriving en masse or individually, and taking days or weeks to be reunited with their owners (if ever). I've seen pictures of an auditorium sized area at LHR full of bags, and read that Qantas didn't load any baggage on one Darwin-LHR flight to take on extra fuel (thoughtfully not adding to the LHR bag mountain.

Almost every airport seems to be understaffed resulting in interminable queues at check-in and security. I haven't flown for a couple of months so can't speak to it first hand. In the comments on an article about the issue on One Mile At A Time, one poster said (by way of contrast with the article) that his recent travels in SE Asia and Australia had been a breeze. You wouldn't know that from our news and social media.

I'm plotting a trip later in the year and QF (my only useful pot of miles) has almost no rewards available, and those that are, only in economy. I thought 'typical bastards' but another OMAAT article said it's the same everywhere. Fares to the US are insane (for the most part) even though QF has a daily A380 to LAX and UA is adding services. Fares to Europe are the same or less than LAX. (I found a Lufthansa fare to Frankfurt for less than UA to LAX even though the LH trip was via LAX and on the same UA metal for the SYD-LAX sector.)

Anyone else bemused by what they are seeing or frustrated with their own air travel experiences either in the air or in the attempts to book? Hearing the funny side of things would be good too!

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My domestic US flights so far this year have all arrived on time or early, including a last-minute change on American from Cabo. That said, I’ll be spending a month in Portugal starting Sept 14 and changing at LHR. At least I’ll be in business and doing carry-on. I mix hotels and Airbnb so that I have access to a washer. I’ll report on the experience.

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I've been traveling First Class on American, United, and Alaska since the Wuhan pandemic, and economy on Southwest.  These flights have been international from US to Mexico, and US domestic.

Now that masks are not required, civility and service has started to return.

There have been no noticeable changes to my on time flights or time to wait for baggage claim.

I did notice the absence of pre-flight drinks in first class.  Therefore, I decided to board first class in the last boarding group in order to spend as little time as possible on the plane, and avoid having a hundred people walk by me as they board.  There was no incentive to board early than necessary if I can't enjoy a pre-flight drink.

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I was recently on a Frontier flight from a small local airport.
The gate crew looked to be in their early 20’s and acted like teenagers.
They switched the planes at gates 3 & 4, ten minutes before departure.
They only made a soft garbled overhead announcement that no one understood.
No signs at either gate. Never changed the flights/gates on the main board listing. 

One plane boarded and took off, leaving 1/2 of it’s passengers in the lounge.
When the second plane started to board…..the switch became obvious and all hell broke loose. 

So yeah…flying right now is a huge crap shoot.
Show up early and be ready for random, non-sensical, changes without much notice. 

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  • 4 weeks later...

I had an interesting experience checking on flights from Sydney to NY for later in the year (still scoping not ready to book). Still expensive in J some good prices in premium economy. I went to the Singapore Airlines site to recheck the J fares I'd seen on Amex. Yup, about the same although easier to quickly pick outbound and return flights from several available on a given day (c $AU10K). I then checked the PY fares, and surprise as well as that fare (similar to Amex) there were R/T J fares for about $6k. Seems not all fares get onto an aggregator site, they don't always even appear on the airline's site if you don't choose the correct search options. (SQ flights are almost invariably cheaper than Qantas even though they are via Singapore and QF are non-stop to the US (not to NYC), and are generally cheaper than US carriers.)

Moral is check multiple sources if you're booking yourself. You would hope that a travel agent would find all the options but if you have time probably do some research there to!

Another thought, about which airlines to look at, for which I have no proof but suspect is true, using AU-US travel as an example. AU and US carriers on the route are there to get people between those two countries and price fares accordingly. Asian carriers have the same reasons for flying from their home bases to AU and to the US. Flying people between AU and US via Asia is a bonus, so if they have surplus seats on either of the sectors, they would be prepared to sell connecting tickets at a discount to the prices they are selling the two sectors separately. Long story short, even on Amex I consistently see fares far lower than QF on SQ, Cathay, JAL and sometimes on Korean and Asiana (rarely on ANA). Not so much on the Middle East three, but their business models are geared to flying from everywhere to everywhere else and not flying to the UAE or Qatar as destinations.

This applies more to premium cabins, the potential savings in economy far less. And to be fair, two long haul flights in Y would be quite a chore compared to one long haul followed by a shorter domestic flight (even if that involved connecting at LAX). I'm more than happy to contemplate doing the two long flights if it's SQ, CX or JL biz. I know not everyone would be. (I would guess that transatlantic competition is such that this is less of an issue there.)

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Tried a cheap flight to Florida this week ( there on business ) .

Spirit Airlines is known to be awful, but I figured its a quick business trip...I could endure a little discomfort.

WRONG.

Just awful and what I didn't factor in was being abandoned on the tarmac for two hours with minimal airconditioning while they re-thought their flight path and "if they had enough fuel". They couldn't have done all that BEFORE we boarded ??

Lauderdale to NYC route was full of non-English language passengers who apparently have never been on board a flight before and ignored every announcement to sit down, get off their phones, use earphones for electronic games etc etc and the fellow sitting next to me unwrapped a whole smelly Burger King meal in the middle of take off and starting dropping his fries all over my lap.

OK...that's not ALL the airlines "fault" per-se....but there was little to no effort to control any of this chaos by the flight attendants who were too busy selling bottles of water for $ 3.50 a piece.

AVOID

Edited by pubic_assistance
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6 hours ago, pubic_assistance said:

Tried a cheap flight to Florida this week ( there on business ) .

Spirit Airlines is known to be awful, but I figured its a quick business trip...I could endure a little discomfort.

WRONG.

Just awful and what I didn't factor in was being abandoned on the tarmac for two hours with minimal airconditioning while they re-thought their flight path and "if they had enough fuel". They couldn't have done all that BEFORE we boarded ??

Lauderdale to NYC route was full of non-English language passengers who apparently have never been on board a flight before and ignored every announcement to sit down, get off their phones, use earphones for electronic games etc etc and the fellow sitting next to me unwrapped a whole smelly Burger King meal in the middle of take off and starting dropping his fries all over my lap.

OK...that's not ALL the airlines "fault" per-se....but there was little to no effort to control any of this chaos by the flight attendants who were too busy selling bottles of water for $ 3.50 a piece.

AVOID

You get what you pay for with Spirit. 

Honestly, their reviews are such complete and total shit, I'm shocked you even gave them a shot. 

My condolences. 

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6 hours ago, BenjaminNicholas said:

You get what you pay for with Spirit. 

Not even. 

By the time you do the math on all the nickel and dimes they shake out of you during the booking process, it’s often cheaper to go with a slightly better airline. Unfortunately, there are no "great" airlines in America, so just stick with the ones that don’t "suck as much". That definitely means no Spirit and no Frontier Airlines. 

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8 hours ago, BenjaminNicholas said:

Honestly, their reviews are such complete and total shit, I'm shocked you even gave them a shot. 

Yeah. Silly me. I certainly didn't seek them out. It was simply that they were the only one with the flight exactly at the hours I wanted to travel ..and I thought...." How bad could they be" ? Well...got my answer !

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  • 5 weeks later...

Qantas has been in the news here consistently for several months now with flight delays, cancellations and baggage melt-downs to the extent that it is suffering potentially permanent reputational damage. Twitter is replete with comments like 'I'll never fly with them again' (possibly from once-every-few-years discount economy flyers, but their social media voice is no less prominent for that), and references to the CEO as a 'poisonous leprechaun' or words to that effect (no homophobic slurs that I've seen, which is good to see), so not ideal PR. The CEO's recent purchase of a $19m home didn't help.

Today (a Sunday, no less) they have taken the initiative (or at least attempted to: we'll see how it goes) in the PR stakes by extending elite status for another 12 months (that's me till 31 May 24) and giving QF Club passes to Silver members and Business Lounge upgrades to Gold members. There's a couple of other bonuses as well, and they are increasing the number of award flights available on most flights. What they have announced mainly benefits elite status holders, although increased availability of rewards seats will make scoring one [slightly] easier for all members.

I'll be interested to see what effect this has. I hadn't been in the 'never QF' camp but it takes away one of my incentives to take flights on OW or to credit them to QF when I do, at least for now. Maybe not the result QF had hoped for with this announcement!

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QF has the good fortune to be the flag carrier in a country that needs their fleet/routes.

Bottom line, people can piss and moan, but they'll go back.  They always do.

LIke AA, the largest commercial airline in the States, people take to social media to blow off steam, but when they have to travel again and the price/time/route is right, they'll be right back on American.  

I take all of this with a grain of salt.  Loyalty has its perks.  Most who complain the loudest are low-mid level elites at best.

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All true, @BenjaminNicholas, and the social media isn't all bad. There's also a fair amount of commentary that it's the same everywhere, which is true. The host of the Saturday current affairs talk show on ABC Radio National had her bags missing for two weeks and was philosophical about it, and she's certainly not alone. Extending their status will assuage many of them, as will the lounge pass. Keeping that QF First lounge access isn't something I would dismiss lightly, either.

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Well, this morning after the e-mail went out from Qantas advising members of the 'make-up sex' they were offering, the Qantas website crashed with people trying to book award seats that had been released or use the $50 vouchers they'd been given. The article about it that I read thought the crash would further annoy punters but I think it indicates that a bunch of people are pretty happy with Qantas at the moment.

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It's my humble opinion that most of us here in America suffer from the Walmart effect....

I want it bigger, faster, & cheaper... but I wanna feel like I'm 1st class, 5 star, &5 diamond.

Again IMHO we have created the current lack of service experienced in the airline industry.  And I'm not just discussing the current state of affairs post pandemic  my perception reaches way before the pandemic ravaged the industry. 

Edited by ericwinters
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4 hours ago, ericwinters said:

It's my humble opinion that most of us here in America suffer from the Walmart effect....

I want it bigger, faster, & cheaper... but I wanna feel like I'm 1st class, 5 star, &5 diamond.

Again IMHO we have created the current lack of service experienced in the airline industry.  And I'm not just discussing the current state of affairs post pandemic  my perception reaches way before the pandemic ravaged the industry. 

Technically, The Walmart Effect is something else entirely.  That's when a large company manifests itself in a smaller community, forcing out mom & pops and then controlling the local pay scale as they see fit.

That said, I get what you mean.  People want 'the best' and they also want it at a price they can afford.  Realistically, people need to realize that the two are not always synonymous.  Having what you can afford is not the American way, where so many live entirely beyond their means thanks to credit lines and plastic cards.

The real problem with the airline industry came when, one, airlines started offering coast-to-coast flights for sub $350, which, two, gave people the false impression that flying was a right, not a privilege.  It got the general public used to the price, while the airlines scrambled to hard push the Pareto Principle in padding their bottom line.  This is one of a dozen reasons why the US Airline industry is a broken system, which will remain broken for some time to come.

 

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here's the source of today's entitled passengers and airline woes:  the 1978 Airline Deregulation Act.......it definitely had to happen, but you get what you ask for.....

https://airandspace.si.edu/stories/editorial/airline-deregulation-when-everything-changed

my Dad was an airline captain from 1955-1986 for now long-gone TWA, the glamorous airline owned by Howard Hughes for much of my Dad's career....there was no interest in the company making money, planes were routinely half-empty........we all know the story......people dressed up, everybody got full meals on short flights, and never carried on bags....remember when the overhead was nothing but an open shelf full of blankets and pillows??!!

What It Was Really Like To Fly During The Golden Age Of Travel

 

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I remember my first flight.

Lobster salad / real knife and fork / glass of white wine served chilled in a real glass...and I was flying coach !

But I also paid proportionally more than I would today for the same destination .

US Domestic doesn't even have an equivalent option today, even if you were to pay for it.

First class travel is pointless because you're trapped in the same shitty plane that gets stuck on the tarmac and is filled up in the back with low class travelers who don't know how to behave.

Small private jet transportation is outrageously expensive.

There are no choices left for the well-mannered upper middle class traveler.

 

Edited by pubic_assistance
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On 8/22/2022 at 6:19 AM, ericwinters said:

It's my humble opinion that most of us here in America suffer from the Walmart effect....

I want it bigger, faster, & cheaper... but I wanna feel like I'm 1st class, 5 star, &5 diamond.

Again IMHO we have created the current lack of service experienced in the airline industry.  And I'm not just discussing the current state of affairs post pandemic  my perception reaches way before the pandemic ravaged the industry. 

I like how United has lines for Boarding Groups 1 and 2. I am generally in Boarding Group 1. Then they announce boarding is beginning, and start describing one by one various categories of passengers who can board ahead of Group 1. So Group 1 is really like Group 5...

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10 hours ago, sniper said:

I like how United has lines for Boarding Groups 1 and 2. I am generally in Boarding Group 1. Then they announce boarding is beginning, and start describing one by one various categories of passengers who can board ahead of Group 1. So Group 1 is really like Group 5...

Well, that requires posting of this classic. Watch to the end!

 

 

Edited by azdr0710
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Before the pandemic Qantas flew a daily LAX-JFK flight using LAX as a hub for passengers to and from BNE, SYD and MEL to connect to and from New York. (QF11 was the Sydney-New York flight number but the aircraft flying LAX-JFK was the Dreamliner that flew from Brisbane not the A380 from Sydney.)

Qantas eventually plans to fly the route from Sydney non-stop when it takes delivery of extra-long range A350-1000 aircraft but have announced that a direct flight to JFK will begin via Auckland from June next year, initially three times a week. (So the short leg will be on a B787 SYD-AKL rather than whatever on AA metal from DFW, and the second leg will be 16-ish hours rather than the first.)

Will I ever fly it? Probably at least once to tick that box, although I expect other routings, either QF via other US ports, or via Asia, will be priced better. I'd bet my house that the reason for this move is that Air New Zealand are about to start flying the route from AKL, with good connections from our east coast capitals. (I live in hope that these flights from AKL will prompt the two airlines to fly from Canberra to Auckland and give us the chance of one-stop travel to New York.)

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