The Ups and Downs of Airlines and Air Travel

[+ tassojunior]

amazingly airfares are soaring from last year, especially in awards. there were a few AA/Qantas very cheap awards in 1st for a very few days in/out of LAX but they're gone. I struggle with US/EU to bring my Bel Ami friends over.

I just had to deal with a change for a Czech BA friend coming to visit last night and KLM is not super telephone friendly like Virgin. He has a new passport # not the # on his ESTA and they knew this last week evidently from an email telling him to come to the desk for check-in but they mentioned only vaccination cards. If he'd known he could have changed his ESTA pp # in a few hours. At the desk they denied him boarding and told him to go online because they could not change his ticket to another day and there would be no charge. I canceled as they instructed but was on the phone with them from 1am to 6am talking to that same 15 yr old off-shore girl that answers every corporations' help lines (I hope she makes a lot and takes vacations !) I finally got the miles back in and got the last seat for next week online. But she charged me $56 to redeposit, regardless of what the desk said. (I miss the sleep more than the $56.)

Be aware that if you have ESTA and get a new passport you must change the passport # on your ESTA. Even though they pretend they're separate, CBP's computers see the difference and the airline denies your boarding. 

(I have no idea why I'm highlighted)

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

13 minutes ago, tassojunior said:

amazingly airfares are soaring from last year, especially in awards. there were a few AA/Qantas very cheap awards in 1st for a very few days in/out of LAX but they're gone. I struggle with US/EU to bring my Bel Ami friends over.

I just had to deal with a change for a Czech BA friend coming to visit last night and KLM is not super telephone friendly like Virgin. He has a new passport # not the # on his ESTA and they knew this last week evidently from an email telling him to come to the desk for check-in but they mentioned only vaccination cards. If he'd known he could have changed his ESTA pp # in a few hours. At the desk they denied him boarding and told him to go online because they could not change his ticket to another day and there would be no charge. I canceled as they instructed but was on the phone with them from 1am to 6am talking to that same 15 yr old off-shore girl that answers every corporations' help lines (I hope she makes a lot and takes vacations !) I finally got the miles back in and got the last seat for next week online. But she charged me $56 to redeposit, regardless of what the desk said. (I miss the sleep more than the $56.)

Be aware that if you have ESTA and get a new passport you must change the passport # on your ESTA. Even though they pretend they're separate, CBP's computers see the difference and the airline denies your boarding. 

(I have no idea why I'm highlighted)

This is one reason why I never provide my passport number in advance, whether booking a flight or a cruise.  To me, it is worth the extra few seconds to let let the agent type in my passport information when I arrive at the airport or cruise terminal to check in, rather than the technological problems that can come when I update my passport or identification between the time of booking and departure.

[+ tassojunior]

5 minutes ago, Vegas_nw1982 said:

This is one reason why I never provide my passport number in advance, whether booking a flight or a cruise.  To me, it is worth the extra few seconds to let let the agent type in my passport information when I arrive at the airport or cruise terminal to check in, rather than the technological problems that can come when I update my passport or identification between the time of booking and departure.

I understand they want to pretend the US doesn't monitor every thing they do, but when a foreign airline is aware that your ESTA has a different pp#, they should let you know so you can immediately and quickly correct it. I'm sure this happens a lot with people assuming their ESTA is still good after getting a new passport. The fix takes a few hours. Even Big Brother could be a little more helpful on silly things. 

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

29 minutes ago, tassojunior said:

I understand they want to pretend the US doesn't monitor every thing they do, but when a foreign airline is aware that your ESTA has a different pp#, they should let you know so you can immediately and quickly correct it. I'm sure this happens a lot with people assuming their ESTA is still good after getting a new passport. The fix takes a few hours. Even Big Brother could be a little more helpful on silly things. 

What is ESTA?

[+ tassojunior]

Just now, Vegas_nw1982 said:

What is ESTA?

It's the 2-year visa to the US from many countries that's good for several separate visits of up to 90 days each. For 6 months one needs a tourist visa. 

[mike carey]

8 hours ago, Vegas_nw1982 said:

What is ESTA?

8 hours ago, tassojunior said:

It's the 2-year visa to the US from many countries that's good for several separate visits of up to 90 days each. For 6 months one needs a tourist visa. 

And you have to apply for it at least 72 hours before departure. I haven't had to apply for them yet but the EU and Canada have similar pre-departure authorities you need to apply for, as do Australia and New Zealand although I don't need those. Passport details are mandatory requirements to apply for an ESTA so you cannot decide not to provide it (if you want to travel). I would expect all of those systems to have a similar passport requirement to the US.

The US also has a mandatory international arrival form that I'm always prompted for when I book on the QF site, and it too requires your passport number.

[+ tassojunior]

6 minutes ago, mike carey said:

And you have to apply for it at least 72 hours before departure. I haven't had to apply for them yet but the EU and Canada have similar pre-departure authorities you need to apply for, as do Australia and New Zealand although I don't need those. Passport details are mandatory requirements to apply for an ESTA so you cannot decide not to provide it (if you want to travel). I would expect all of those systems to have a similar passport requirement to the US.

The US also has a mandatory international arrival form that I'm always prompted for when I book on the QF site, and it too requires your passport number.

but my friend was notified by KLM that he couldn't check in online but at the desk because of vaccination requirements. 3 days later they said it was that his new PP# wasn't on his ESTA. So they knew and he could get it changed in a few hours (as he later did). But he missed his flight because they neglected to tell him why until an hour before boarding. Thankfully we canceled and got a new flight a week later at the same price. But it took 1am to 6am to do that and his ESTA pp# change took 2 hours. They should alert people when they know early. It's no secret the US CBP sees all these tickets. 

[mike carey]

@tassojunior, sorry, I was aware you knew the details, I was cross-referencing your post and adding to your explanation of what an ESTA was, and noting that disclosing your passport number is not optional.

[mike carey]

10 hours ago, tassojunior said:

amazingly airfares are soaring from last year, especially in awards. there were a few AA/Qantas very cheap awards in 1st for a very few days in/out of LAX but they're gone.

Qantas released a bunch of extra award seats about a month back, and I saw some complaints here that they were hard to find, but more accounts on OMAAT and the like of people successfully booking them on AA and (I think AS) FF programs. Qantas' award booking process is, shall we say, not industry best practice (for passengers, at least).

[mike carey]

I was just reading a newspaper article about Qantas allegedly improving its frequent flyer program in coming months and two comments below the article struck me for different reasons. First, one commented that of 15m members, having only 100 complaints made to a recent Senate committee enquiry was no big deal. I disagree, most Australians wouldn't complain, they'd quietly seeth and if annoyed enough go elsewhere. 

The second was more insightful. It noted that many treat an airline, or its FF program, like their football team. They wish it well, and continue to support it and hope it gets better. I would add that it doesn't mean they'll watch, or go to all its games, or that they don't have a second team or watch other random games.

Edited to add, I'm in Adelaide watching the cricket, and flew here on [really quite good] Virgin Australia business class flights, and I'm a Qantas platinum member.

[SirBillybob]

I recently had several long-haul Business Class flights on Qatar Airways, a Middle East carrier, majority anticipated to be Q-Suites grade. All trips were superlative. I was expecting bespoke dining, but English High Tea, whot?!

Word to the wise. I checked all flights’ seating a few days ahead and discovered that one of them had changed aircraft but maintained the seat designation (as all of my flights retained the seat#), yet lo and behold it would have relegated me to an Economy seat. Yet the reservation was still coded as Business for all flights. I thought, nah, but SeatGuru configuration confirmed this red-flagging on my part. I dashed to the airport, also a few days ahead of first flight, where the Québecois check-in counter staff confirmed my interpretation but expressed that they could not amend it, something or other about it having been a promotional fare booked a year ahead, without the relevant single-letter code, and if Business class was full, well, my misfortune, etc.

Serendipitously, the manager had just swung by his little cubicle office nearby and was able to change the seating back to Business. It took him about 40 minutes to fix it, initially saying I would need to call corporate office in Doha. Bless his heart as he should have been hoofing it to assist at the boarding gate that evening. 

Edited January 22 by SirBillybob

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

1 hour ago, SirBillybob said:

I recently had several long-haul flights on Qatar Airways, all Q-Suites class, superlative. I was expecting bespoke dining, but English High Tea, whot?!

That is a weird set of circumstance vs expectations indeed.  One would expect a superlative experience to include something above the working class evening meal known as "High Tea".  One would have expected the more upscale "Afternoon Tea" to be offered between midday meal and evening meal.

Edited January 22 by Vegas_Millennial

[SirBillybob]

1 hour ago, Vegas_Millennial said:

That is a weird set of circumstance vs expectations indeed.  One would expect a superlative experience to include something above the working class evening meal known as "High Tea".  One would have expected the more upscale "Afternoon Tea" to be offered between midday meal and evening meal.

Why thank you, creature great or small tuned into the Mrs Halls and Mrs Pumphreys. I stand corrected regarding what I consider to have been essentially a ‘cheat meal’, and I do think the in-flight menu likely indicated Afternoon Tea, but it was neither afternoon nor typical evening when I consumed it, in either the time zone of enjoying it, the departure zone, or the destination zone. That said, I was high and high owing to altitude and being a moderate drinker with one too many champagne pours. I once had Afternoon Tea at a Ritz-Carlton and at another Ritz-Carlton Haute Couture High Tea, go figure. Fortunately, precious picayune editing doesn’t detract from its deliciousness. I once stayed with a working class family in one of the islands near England and Ireland; Tea was typically an evening meal of ‘fried egg and chip’. 

Edited January 22 by SirBillybob

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

1 hour ago, Vegas_Millennial said:

That is a weird set of circumstance vs expectations indeed.  One would expect a superlative experience to include something above the working class evening meal known as "High Tea".  One would have expected the more upscale "Afternoon Tea" to be offered between midday meal and evening meal.

Many Americans confuse tea nomenclature.  They just see 'high' and confuse it for 'fancy.'

It's as big of a pet peeve of mine as travelers who misspeak 'direct' when they actually mean 'nonstop'

 

2 hours ago, SirBillybob said:

I recently had several long-haul Business Class flights on Qatar Airways, majority anticipated to be Q-Suites grade. All trips were superlative.

QR is one of the many reasons I keep loyalty with OneWorld.  Their J seating is fantastic.

Truth be told, I think SQ bests them in service and that their seating is more comfortable through the entire cabin, not just J and F.

Emirates has let so much of their fleet age, I don't even consider them a contender anymore.

[SirBillybob]

42 minutes ago, BenjaminNicholas said:

QR is one of the many reasons I keep loyalty with OneWorld.  Their J seating is fantastic.

Truth be told, I think SQ bests them in service and that their seating is more comfortable through the entire cabin, not just J and F.

Emirates has let so much of their fleet age, I don't even consider them a contender anymore.

IATA mind yer Ps and Qs, Ms Noma.

Edited January 22 by SirBillybob

[SouthOfTheBorder]

very recently had a nice long chat w former flight attendant with one of the “premium” Arab carriers.  Interestingly, he said the crews are often horrible - mainly because they are sourced from many different countries with no built-in camaraderie or consistent cultural norms: constant arguments, power struggles & miscommunication.  The natives of those countries think the work is below them.  
Also - those countries have very few worker protection laws and treat the employees much worse than European/ American/Asian airlines.  He said the physical hard product is great - but forget about any consistency of service due to constant turnover & bad management.

actually makes total sense in terms of how they treat people they see as servants.  plus, do you really want an unscheduled layover in Doha, Abu Dhabi or Riyadh ??

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

1 hour ago, BenjaminNicholas said:

Many Americans confuse tea nomenclature.  They just see 'high' and confuse it for 'fancy.'

It's as big of a pet peeve of mine as travelers who misspeak 'direct' when they actually mean 'nonstop

It's only thanks to you, @BenjaminNicholas, that I know the difference between the more formal "Tea" and the less formal "High Tea".

As for traveling non-stop, my friend asked me recently if I flew "straight" from New York to Las Vegas.  I told her no, they let me fly gay. 😆

[SirBillybob]

16 minutes ago, Vegas_Millennial said:

As for traveling non-stop, my friend asked me recently if I flew "straight" from New York to Las Vegas.  I told her no, they let me fly gay. 😆

 Non-stop gay?

Edited January 22 by SirBillybob

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

4 hours ago, SouthOfTheBorder said:

plus, do you really want an unscheduled layover in Doha, Abu Dhabi or Riyadh ??

Abu Dhabi and Doha are beautiful, fascinating places to visit.

So, yes....  I'd be fine with that.

[SouthOfTheBorder]

7 hours ago, BenjaminNicholas said:

Abu Dhabi and Doha are beautiful, fascinating places to visit.

So, yes....  I'd be fine with that.

I recently did an extra long-haul business flight - I chose a European based carrier & transit hub because I wanted the built-in guarantees if something went wrong……and it did.  They were late on the first leg (not weather related) and almost all passengers missed their connections  and those flights were the last of the day.  Because they are regulated by EU laws, they were required to offer compensation, accommodations & meals for affected passengers.  And because it was required by law, all the arrangements were made within minutes upon arrival without question or negotiation. They emailed the forms to claim compensation. 
Not so with airlines the operate hubs in countries that don’t have similar regulations/laws.  And, yes if the journey includes arrival/departure from EU, then carriers may fall under some of EU regulations based upon circumstances. If not, then it’s whatever. Big difference between company policies that are a goal vs specific codified laws with penalties. 

Not that Doha or Abu Dhabi aren’t beautiful places - I just wouldn’t want to be stuck there & at the whim of whatever they choose to do. Especially when they have an abysmal record in how they treat employees, no common culture & constant turnover.  
When everything goes according to plan, then of course no problem. But, If you travel enough, these things are eventually going to happen. 
Other than flying American nonstop long-haul bc of my status - I’ll always pick a European carrier through European hubs on connecting long haul.  

Edited January 23 by SouthOfTheBorder

[mike carey]

Okay, so I'm a bit of an avgeek, don't @ me.

I booked my flights for the Palm Springs weekend last year. Fast forward, and I've had two notifications from Amex that Qantas had changed my flights. The first was a two hour earlier departure from LAX on my flight to MEL. Amex insisted that I call them (or use their chatbot) to confirm I was happy with the change (note, IDGAF). I did so, and they were very thorough, going through the changes and making sure they worked for me, and they would have changed my connecting flight from MEL for free (and presumably the TPAC sector) if I wanted. All good.

The second change they said wasn't material and I didn't need to call them. Took a while for me to find what it was, and it was a new flight number but the same time for my MEL-CBR flight. But there's more. The changed flight was on a different aircraft type *cue avgeek squeal of delight* onto one of QF's brand new A220s (they only have two so far). I had wondered when I would get to fly on one, and now I will be!

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

3 hours ago, mike carey said:

The changed flight was on a different aircraft type *cue avgeek squeal of delight* onto one of QF's brand new A220s (they only have two so far). 

NOICE!

[+ azdr0710]

On 3/3/2024 at 8:09 AM, mike carey said:

 one of QF's brand new A220s (they only have two so far). I had wondered when I would get to fly on one, and now I will be!

for those curious, like me.......

https://www.qantas.com/au/en/about-us/our-company/fleet/qantaslink-a220.html

 

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

On 1/22/2024 at 11:35 PM, SouthOfTheBorder said:

Especially when they have an abysmal record in how they treat employees, no common culture & constant turnover.  

Common culture is important.  Diversity isn't always what it's cracked up to be on airlines.

Edited March 8 by Vegas_Millennial
Clarified I was taking about air travel

[mike carey]

4 hours ago, Vegas_Millennial said:

Common culture is important.  Diversity isn't always what it's cracked up to be.

There is a common culture in the Gulf Arab states, but the hired help, including airline employees are not part of it. These countries are the antithesis of diversity, there is a dominant culture, hired technocratic help (mainly western) who have no rights, and the rest who have even fewer rights, more analogous to slaves than anything else. So they offer no lessons on whether diversity in the West is a good or bad thing.

Interesting as that may be, this thread is about airlines and air travel, not the advantages or otherwise of diversity or of the nature of Middle Eastern societies, so please stick to discussing travel.