Condom and bareback discrepancy

[+ Jamie21]

39 minutes ago, SirBillybob said:

Looks like has been walked back except for those that commenced uptake and you got in under the wire.

NICE rejects cabotegravir for PrEP in draft guidance - The Pharmaceutical Journal

PHARMACEUTICAL-JOURNAL.COM

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The National Institute for Health and Care Excellence (NICE) does not recommend the injectable HIV...

 

I mean oral prep. That’s free. This often happens with new drugs: they do a cost / benefit analysis. It’s public money. 

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

36 minutes ago, Jamie21 said:

I mean oral prep. That’s free. This often happens with new drugs: they do a cost / benefit analysis. It’s public money. 

Good point.  At some point, it's more cost effective to pay for prep than it is to pay for condoms, especially if one uses condoms five to ten times per day.  Plus, there's the environmental factors to consider: condoms are not recycled and don't decompose well in a landfill.  Society benefits all around if the most sexually active among us use prep instead of condoms.

I do my part and go bare

Edited November 21, 2024 by Vegas_Millennial

[SirBillybob]

It’s a good thing, then, that STI treatment syringes and pill containers are all biodegradable in landfill. 

[SirBillybob]

5 hours ago, sniper said:

I thought I had read that when they took blood samples from the people who seroconverted in PreP studies the evidence indicated they pretty much just weren't taking it at all, not just they missed a dose here or there.

Based on a worldwide pooled research total of 54 HIV cases assessed for estimates of adherence drawn from post diagnosis lab samples for residual tenofovir levels often obtained long after TDF-FTC discontinuation and seroconversion. No statistical analysis for the groups stratified by estimated adherence, as tiny sample not amenable to sufficient statistical power. More HIV seroconversion cases in the extrapolated more adherent 4-7 weekly doses subgroup compared to the less adherent 2-4 weekly doses subgroup!! Tenofovir drug resistance in which breakthrough infection is attributable to a poor response to the medication was also is a confounder. 

Edited November 22, 2024 by SirBillybob

[+ Jamie21]

1 hour ago, Vegas_Millennial said:

Good point.  At some point, it's more cost effective to pay for prep than it is to pay for condoms, especially if one uses condoms five to ten times per day.  Plus, there's the environmental factors to consider: condoms are not recycled and don't decompose well in a landfill.  Society benefits all around if the most sexually active among us use prep instead of condoms.

I do my part and go bare

I told the clinic, how am I supposed to make hot porn if I have to use condoms?  Not to mention the continuity issues when an unsheathed cock suddenly appears with a condom on when it’s going in and all the waste disposal issues with non biodegradable condoms and wrappers. So they prescribed prep taken daily which means I have to have bare sex every day to make sure the NHS gets value for money. 

 

Edited November 21, 2024 by Jamie21
Typo

[mike carey]

I finally had my prescription for PrEP on occurrence filled, the young [female] pharmacist explained the dosage pattern in a very matter-of-fact way, in the same terms as the doctor at the clinic had (the instructions on the vial referred to taking two tablets 'before activity' and continuing every 24 hours until after 48 hours after 'last activity'). It cost me the standard PBS $31.60 pharmacy copay for 30 tablets. I'll still be mindful of the risks of other STIs, both for me, and for prospective partners if I were to have an asymptomatic infection.

[marylander1940]

3 hours ago, sniper said:

I thought I had read that when they took blood samples from the people who seroconverted in PreP studies the evidence indicated they pretty much just weren't taking it at all, not just they missed a dose here or there. Someone too undisciplined to take a pill isn't likely to consistently put on a rubber either.

 

[Monarchy79]

On 8/25/2024 at 8:55 AM, pubic_assistance said:

LOTS of "undetectable" 20-somethings out there when you look around on Grindr.

These kids are all getting a rough lesson about pharmaceutical companies. THEY LIE.

It wasn’t the pharmaceutical companies that lied to them…. It was probably their sexual partners….. 😎

I volunteered for a gay advocacy group (decades ago) that promoted safe sex (passing out condoms in bars, etc) and conducting support groups. Over 90% of our youngest clients who recently contracted HIV, weren’t  sexually reckless or stereotypical “sluts”, they placed their trust in a partner who either lied to them about their status, or didn’t know their status, and lied to them about their monogamy. This was B.P. (Before PrEP) 

With the emergence of PrEP, what I’ve witnessed are a surge or guys LYING, telling others that they are on PrEP, just for the sake of having easy bareback sex. A naive guy will take their word on that and expose themselves to not only HIV, but other STDs. Being on PrEP requires quarterly testing and (in most places) some form of health insurance. 

Most of these guys out here live like vikings (wild, reckless and “pillaging” asses and dicks) , and can’t even keep up with teeth cleanings and oil changes, so believing that the masses are taking PrEP  as prescribed, and being regularly tested, is a bit naive…. Look at the hook up sites… they are filled with profiles where guys have made up “expired”  “tested” dates….😝, all while saying they they are “on PrEP” 

If you’re going to be sexually active, enjoy yourself, but protect yourself, whichever way you choose (condoms, PrEPs, vaccines, etc), but whatever you do, do NOT trust the “word”, of another man. 
 

 

 

[Monarchy79]

On 11/2/2024 at 10:42 AM, pubic_assistance said:

So...people who don't care if they die from sexually transmitted diseases (as long as it's not HIV) because they don't have any responsibility to anyone else.

Maybe that's why I'm of a very different attitude on the subject. I have a wife and children and other family and friends that rely on me. So..yes..I can't be so careless about my health.

Maybe its lonliness that leads other to playing Russian Roulette with their sex life.

It’s the form of sexual “ cognitive dissonance” that a lot of people have. 

I know  a guy who is “allergic”, to condoms and has been barebacking it for years (even before PrEP). During those days, his method of “safe sex” was to be partnered and to be “selective” with who they played with in their open relationship. 
 

Then he got on PrEP as soon as it was available. He’s spent years admitting to contracting multiple STDs, casually gets “cured” for them, because they’re treatable, and over the past 8 years, has mad multiple bouts in the hospital with the mumps, shingles, and other infections. His immune system is so jacked up, that his body is fighting against itself and the only thing he can define it as is “lupus”.

When the medical industry introduced PrEP to the world, they prescribed it to be used WITH condoms. They also expressed their concern that human behavioral studies predicted that targeted groups (gay men), would ditch the condoms, and other STDs would potentially surge. 
 

This is exactly what happened. 
 

STDs are not to be trivialized. There are many people who have long term illnesses, are suffering, and who have died, from untreated STDs, and regularly contracting STDs and “curing”, them. 
 

At the end of the day, life is about choices, and accepting whatever consequences come with them. Condoms have their benefits and drawbacks, and so does PrEP.

Choose wisely, and with common sense. 

[marylander1940]

On 11/21/2024 at 5:24 PM, Vegas_Millennial said:

Good point.  At some point, it's more cost effective to pay for prep than it is to pay for condoms, especially if one uses condoms five to ten times per day.  Plus, there's the environmental factors to consider: condoms are not recycled and don't decompose well in a landfill.  Society benefits all around if the most sexually active among us use prep instead of condoms.

I do my part and go bare

I didn't know you were such a tree hugger!

Thank you for not dumping 10 condoms a day in the toilet!

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

33 minutes ago, marylander1940 said:

I didn't know you were such a tree hugger!

Thank you for not dumping 10 condoms a day in the toilet!

Never dispose of condoms or "flushable" wipes into the toilet.  Use the trash instead.

I've toured my town's sewage treatment plant, and the bar screens at the headworks are overwhelmed scraping used condoms from the wastewater (especially early mornings after Friday and Saturday nights).  Most of our sewage overflows are caused by "flushable" wipes, and then by condoms, that clog our pumps.  The result is raw sewage overflowing out of manholes onto the streets, and into the waters of the U.S.

If you care about clean water for the environment, go bareback (or use the trash).

Edited November 25, 2024 by Vegas_Millennial

[mike carey]

'Flushable wipes', one of the great oxymorons of history. Nothing but poop, piss and toilet paper. Even tissues, and paper towels and napkins are formulated to be strong when wet, not what you want in the sewers! Don't even think about condoms.

If your kink is wallowing in sewerage, don't try to arrange it in your local street with the things you flush. As with most kinks, they are kinks because most people don't, or don't want to share them!

[ShortCutie7]

@Monarchy79, thank you for so beautifully writing out your measured thoughts and providing perfect examples.  I once read an article about a young man who contracted HIV as a teenager from his first sexual encounter.  This is why I’m extremely pro-condom and taking every precaution possible to avoid getting STIs.

[LookingAround]

In the sake of truth in advertising I propose we change the title of this thread to "condom evangelism!"

[ShortCutie7]

8 minutes ago, LookingAround said:

In the sake of truth in advertising I propose we change the title of this thread to "condom evangelism!"

Now, that was really funny!  I think we can acknowledge at this point that we are all coming from different points of view, but all of them are valid and grounded in our own intersections of common sense and scientific knowledge.  And @LookingAround, I hope this makes you realize that perhaps your experiences, circle of friends/acquaintances, and perception of the “real world” are not as broad as you thought, even just within the context of men who like men and live in NYC. @pubic_assistance and I are far from alone in our condom evangelism 😉

[PileDriver]

Too much misinformation and needless hand wringing. I don't play outside of my relationship with my husband, except to hire an escort. Our rules. It keeps things sane for us. And it means in NYC I rely on a handful of men who I've developed a level of trust with. Not a zero risk scenario. But have had an std only twice in my life. Both from when my husband and I first opened the door and we didn't set the limit to escorts or massage therapists. And in both cases I used a condom for anal!! One case of gonorrhea. One case of syphilis.

Once we regulated to just escorts or massage therapists we trusted not one sexually transmitted disease. Have had close calls with my trusted companions. Canceled appointments because someone had a bad health check-up. Or after an assignation a text or call alerting to a positive test result for something that sent me to get tested as well.

Not a fool proof senario. But probably close to zero. As I learned condoms are probaly fool proof only if used for anal and oral. But at some point you do have to live a bit.so.

Not perfect but it works for me and my husband. 

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

I haven't had an escort or masseur put on a condom with me in the U.S. in over 10 years.

Edited May 12 by Vegas_Millennial