COVID Gains After Mask Rules Dropped

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, WilliamM said:

Come on, @Unicorn.

Everyone else is wrong, but you.

"Grossly misleading information???"

On the contrary, I agree with almost all public health officials. The correct statement is "All public health officials are wrong, but you and L2P at E2G are right??". Among the thousands of public health officials, you struggle to find any more than 1 or 2 who agree with you, even for something minor. If by everyone, you mean you, L2P, E2G, etc., well, that's not so amazing....

[+ WilliamM]

13 minutes ago, Unicorn said:

On the contrary, I agree with almost all public health officials. The correct statement is "All public health officials are wrong, but you and L2P at E2G are right??". Among the thousands of public health officials, you struggle to find any more than 1 or 2 who agree with you, even for something minor. If by everyone, you mean you, L2P, E2G, etc., well, that's not so amazing....

More patting yourself on the back!

Together with silly photos. Most people post photos in the Gallery

Edited May 10, 2022 by WilliamM

[+ sync]

3 hours ago, Rudynate said:

She's thinking "The Constitution is the Constitution. Somebody has to make the hard choices."

You make a very good and solid academic point, however, in the practical sense I am swayed by the position taken by the renowned former Harvard professor of constitutional law, Laurence Tribe, which challenges not only the decision but the qualifications of Judge Mizelle to make such a decision:

Judge Kathryn Mizelle's Mask Mandate Ruling 'a Shambles'—Legal Analyst (newsweek.com)

[Rudynate]

1 hour ago, sync said:

You make a very good and solid academic point, however, in the practical sense I am swayed by the position taken by the renowned former Harvard professor of constitutional law, Laurence Tribe, which challenges not only the decision but the qualifications of Judge Mizelle to make such a decision:

Judge Kathryn Mizelle's Mask Mandate Ruling 'a Shambles'—Legal Analyst (newsweek.com)

But even textualists know that the Constitution has to bend sometimes.  It is a well-recognized principal of Constitutional law that the rights guaranteed in the constitution aren't absolute.  I would argue that a sudden and massive public health emergency justified a certain degree of infringement of individual rights.  I'm not sure, I'm rusty on Constitutional law, but I think the test would be that  a mandate would need to be "narrowly tailored to achieve an important government interest" or something like that.  There are several tests for this kind of thing  and the wording in all of them is very similar.  Here, the scale and urgency of the pandemic would justify a pretty broad interference in certain Constitutional rights - the right of free association for example.    I was nauseated that an amateur like her had the authority to decide such an important issue. 

[Rudynate]

11 hours ago, Rudynate said:

But even textualists know that the Constitution has to bend sometimes.  It is a well-recognized principal of Constitutional law that the rights guaranteed in the constitution aren't absolute.  I would argue that a sudden and massive public health emergency justified a certain degree of infringement of individual rights.  I'm not sure, I'm rusty on Constitutional law, but I think the test would be that  a mandate would need to be "narrowly tailored to achieve an important government interest" or something like that.  There are several tests for this kind of thing  and the wording in all of them is very similar.  Here, the scale and urgency of the pandemic would justify a pretty broad interference in certain Constitutional rights - the right of free association for example.    I was nauseated that an amateur like her had the authority to decide such an important issue. 

Here, in the case of a global pandemic, the government interest would be "compelling."

[Luv2play]

On 5/5/2022 at 3:09 PM, Unicorn said:

🙄🙄🙄

Obviously, with asymptomatic or minimally symptomatic "cases" rising as fast as they are, it's inevitable that the number of people testing positive on entering the hospital will increase, even if the virus has nothing to do with why the person is in the hospital. As of May 3rd, the TOTAL number of people in the hospital who test positive in the entire USA is 13,259. The number of people in the ICU is 1617. 

Tons of people "testing positive" from the huge White House Correspondents' Dinner last Saturday. Most are asymptomatic and none seriously ill. If you test large numbers of asymptomatic people, many will test positive. Nothing a sane person would panic over. 

According to 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/459736/average-daily-census-in-hospitals-in-the-us/

"In 2019, the daily average census reached some 611,000 people in hospitals located in the country."

Divide 13,259 into 611,000, and you get, guess what, 2.17%, about the background rate of positivity in the US now (someone else recently quoted 3.3%). So it looks as though most people in the hospital who test positive are in there for reasons unrelated to the viral infection. 

Nothing to see here folks. Just move along. Lol.

On 5/1/2022 at 2:51 PM, Unicorn said:

The other obvious, and more accurate, explanation is that, given that the statistics measures any death from someone who tests positive rather than someone who dies due to the virus, those who died with the virus die mostly for other reasons. Despite very high "case" numbers, deaths have stayed very low in the US. Current 7-day average is 308:

People who die BECAUSE OF the virus almost always spend some time in the ICU, because the cause of death is usually pulmonary, and this necessitates going on a ventilator. Yet the ICU rate of hospitalization has been close to zero (the ICU line is the dark blue line):

 

We all know for a fact that immunizations offer substantial protection from the virus. The fact that the deaths are becoming unrelated to immunization status shows two things: (1) many unvaccinated have immunity from infection, and (2) deaths with the virus are not due TO the virus. 

 

Even at that "low" rate, that's double the number of people killed in car accidents in the US. And those are deaths that otherwise wouldn't have happened absent the Covid pandemic. Still tragic, just as each car fatality is.

[Luv2play]

New cases are up over 50 percent in the US over the last 14 days and hospitalizions by almost 20 percent according to the NYTimes today. This pandemic isn't anywhere over even if people want it to be.  

I'm still masking indoors as I have throughout the last two years. And I haven't had the virus yet and hope to keep it that way. A specialist on CBC radio the other day said you don't want it if at all possible since there is a risk even for relatively healthy people to get long COVID. 

Edited May 11, 2022 by Luv2play

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Luv2play said:

New cases are up over 50 percent in the US over the last 14 days and hospitalizions by almost 20 percent according to the NYTimes today. This pandemic isn't anywhere over even if people want it to be.  

I'm still masking indoors as I have throughout the last two years. And I haven't had the virus yet and hope to keep it that way. A specialist on CBC radio the other day said you don't want it if at all possible since there is a risk even for relatively healthy people to get long COVID. 

For crying out loud, why are you (and a few others) the only ones who don't get the obvious? The fact that "cases" are through the roof, but hospitalizations are staying very low obviously means that "cases' are no longer an important metric, as no one is getting seriously ill from this disease. Almost everyone in the US by now has probably already contracted the virus, but most don't even know unless they're regularly testing, even if asymptomatic (such as politicians, talk show hosts, etc.). In addition to all of the famous people who've gotten the virus recently, you must know quite a few people who've contracted the virus. Do you know of one SINGLE person who's caught the omicron strain, then gotten seriously ill from it (either a friend or a famous person)? I sure don't. Have you heard of a SINGLE person who's caught the omicron strain then developed long COVID? Not one single person? Even in the news? What is that telling you? Even your 96 year-old Queen did just fine, and I'd be hard-pressed to think of anyone older or more frail than she is. 

The current percentage of people in the hospital who test positive is now about the same as the percentage of people in the general public who test positive, meaning the reason they're in the hospital has nothing to do with the virus for the most part. People have been going maskless all over the US, including movie theaters, bars, discos, etc., for well over 2 months in all states, well over 3 months in many states. The virus keeps getting shared, but it's obvious that no one is getting seriously sick. I know you think you're so much smarter than Dr. Fauci when he said the pandemic phase is over. But he's actually trained to know such things. Face it: you'll never admit you're wrong no matter how obvious it is to everyone else (rarely do I see anyone masked up in stores, movie theaters, bars, etc.). 

If we had easy tests for other common cold viruses which we're always passing around, and we'd go around testing people without symptoms, we could always find plenty of "cases" to get panicked over (or not). But it's obvious to most people that the time for panic is over at this time. 

[EZEtoGRU]

On 5/10/2022 at 7:24 PM, Unicorn said:

It's true that the virus has been raging through the US for the last 2 months, but hospitalizations have stayed relatively flat.  ICU rate has been practically zero, as has the death rate. 

What a complete load of crap from our esteemed "doctor".  Updated numbers in Michigan today.  Hospitalizations now up here for the 5th straight week.  Michigan hospitalizations on April 1 were 473 patients....now as of today our hospitalizations are at 903 patients.  Unicorn thinks that is staying "relatively flat".  Complete bunk.

As far as deaths go, Unicorn says its "practically zero" yet we are still losing about 10 per day to COVID here in Michigan.  76 Covid deaths here in the last 7 days.    I guess those 76 people don't count for Unicorn.

Here is the latest report:

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2022/05/11/michigan-covid-cases-deaths-rising-hospitalizations-outbreaks/9720866002/

[fedssocr1]

https://www.ama-assn.org/delivering-care/public-health/what-doctors-wish-patients-knew-about-ba2-omicron-subvariant

Long COVID is affecting many

“One of the things that's amazing about this virus is the different problems people have come in with,” Dr. Crum said. “It’s not just simply a short-term illness with a sore throat or a cough, rather up to 30% of people are having long COVID—defined as four weeks or more of symptoms—with all kinds of issues from shortness of breath to fatigue to hearing problems to dizziness to ocular symptoms.”

“What this new variant is going to look like as far as its propensity to cause long COVID, we don’t know, but I would expect for us to see more people with long term issues,” she said. That is why it’s important “to have people protected not just for the short-term illness, but from the issues that people can have for months and maybe even years after having COVID-19.”

“For me, one of the scariest things is that it's not just the people who are hospitalized and have severe COVID that are developing long COVID,” said Dr. Crum. “In fact, a lot of the data that's emerging is that it's more common in patients who have mild COVID to develop long COVID.

“It's very common to see young, previously healthy people that now can't go back to work or now are having all these issues,” she added. “It’s not the old people or the people with severe disease. It’s really hitting people at the prime of their life and people who never were hospitalized for COVID that just can’t shake the symptoms that go on and on.”

“Sometimes people say, ‘Oh, if I get COVID, no big deal,’ but that’s a very naïve because many of these patients then will develop long term symptoms, which is really horrible and often life-altering” Dr. Crum said.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, fedssocr1 said:

https://www.ama-assn.org/delivering-care/public-health/what-doctors-wish-patients-knew-about-ba2-omicron-subvariant

Long COVID is affecting many

“One of the things that's amazing about this virus is the different problems people have come in with,” Dr. Crum said...“What this new variant is going to look like as far as its propensity to cause long COVID, we don’t know...

"In this installment, AMA member Nancy Crum, MD, an infectious disease specialist at Avita Health System in Galion, Ohio, discusses what patients need to know about the BA.2 Omicron subvariant...". Well, I think we did know even at the time of that writing (sometime before 3 weeks ago, when it was published), and we know even better now. So the answer I'm getting from the peanut gallery is that, no, not a single one of you has even heard of a single person who's gotten seriously ill from the omicron variant, nor have you heard of a single person (either from friends/acquaintances or in the news or from any source) of someone who's had long covid due to an omicron infection. Despite all of your web searching, all you can find is a quote from a Crummy doctor in private practice in Ohio who says "we don't know."

Well, this extremely contagious variant has been floating around the US for 4 months, has gone through probably hundreds of millions in the US alone, and no signal of anyone getting long covid. I'm not sure when she actually made that statement, but I think that at this point we do know. Like she said, this is the first variant to cause sore throats. I've had two sore throats last winter, one in late January, another at the end of February, which I'm guessing were probably from omicron. My concern of getting long-COVID: zero. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, EZEtoGRU said:

...As far as deaths go, Unicorn says its "practically zero" yet we are still losing about 10 per day to COVID here in Michigan.  76 Covid deaths here in the last 7 days...

Oh, for Chrissakes. If we could test everyone for the common cold, how many people would test positive for the cold among people dying in hospitals every day? A lot more than 10, I'd wager. It doesn't mean the cold is a horrid fatal disease we should all worry about. It just means it's extremely common, and some people who die happen to have a cold as they're dying. 

[Luv2play]

What balderdash. 

[EZEtoGRU]

12 hours ago, Unicorn said:

Oh, for Chrissakes. If we could test everyone for the common cold, how many people would test positive for the cold among people dying in hospitals every day? A lot more than 10, I'd wager. It doesn't mean the cold is a horrid fatal disease we should all worry about. It just means it's extremely common, and some people who die happen to have a cold as they're dying. 

As COVID hospitalizations are increasing everywhere and with COVID deaths increasing in some places, our "doctor" is now saying deaths attributed to COVID aren't actually COVID deaths after all.  People are dying from other things and just happen to test positive for COVID at the same time.  I guess that means that the doctors and real health professionals that officially attribute someone's death to COVID don't know what they're doing.

"Doctor" Unicorn will literally say anything now to desperately hang onto his narrative that whilst cases are increasing, COVID hospitalizations remain flat.  That is patently false...and he knows it.  Sad sad Unicorn as he watches his theories and predictions swirl down the toilet.

Masking needs to be mandated again anywhere indoors where people are together.  That's the main takeaway here.  I still mask up anytime I'm around people anyway.

[Luv2play]

A day later new cases are now up 58 percent from 50 yesterday (14 day average).At this pace a new wave will soon materialize. Hospitalizations are up a Percent from yesterday. 

[samhexum]

6 hours ago, EZEtoGRU said:

As COVID hospitalizations are increasing everywhere and with COVID deaths increasing in some places...

 

5 hours ago, Luv2play said:

A day later new cases are now up 58 percent from 50 yesterday (14 day average).At this pace a new wave will soon materialize. Hospitalizations are up a Percent from yesterday. 

Deja vu all over again...

Seven members of the Guardians coaching staff are in MLB Health and Safety Protocols following an apparent COVID outbreak. Pitching coach Carl Willis will serve as acting manager in this weekend’s series in Minnesota. Per Mandy Bell of MLB.com, those in the protocol include bench coach Demarlo Hale, hitting coach Chris Valaika, assistant pitching coach Joe Torres, first base coach Sandy Alomar Jr., third base coach Mike Sarbaugh, and hitting analyst Justin Toole, as well as manager Terry Francona. Only Francona and Hale are confirmed to have tested positive for the virus.

While the Guardians’ coaching situation does put the league into uncharted territory as it attempts to navigate the risk-reward of playing games in the midst of intra-team (or, in this case, intra-staff) outbreaks, it doesn’t come entirely as a surprise. MLB’s postponement of yesterday’s game against the White Sox due to COVID concerns — its first of the season — indicated a level of uncertainty regarding the scope of the outbreak sufficient for the commissioner’s office to step in. It remains unclear if any Guardians players were exposed to the virus, though Jesse Rogers of ESPN did report (via Twitter) that positive tests were “mostly” confined to coaches and traveling staff.

[Guest]

14 hours ago, EZEtoGRU said:

...Masking needs to be mandated again anywhere indoors where people are together.  That's the main takeaway here.  I still mask up anytime I'm around people anyway.

Yes, of course. You're right, and every single public health professional in the country is wrong. Or, could it be that you're just a hard-head who won't admit he's wrong? Hmmm. Which is more likely?

[Guest]

13 hours ago, Luv2play said:

...a new wave will soon materialize. Hospitalizations are up 1% from yesterday. 

I feel a song coming on...

 

The "cases" have been rising exponentially for weeks, and hospitalizations barely budging. It's almost as if an omicron infection protects people from hospitalization, and makes them impervious to getting seriously ill. 

Edited May 13, 2022 by Unicorn

[samhexum]

30 minutes ago, Unicorn said:

I feel a song coming on...

I love that song (along with Smokey Mountain Rain).

[Luv2play]

6 hours ago, Unicorn said:

I feel a song coming on...

 

The "cases" have been rising exponentially for weeks, and hospitalizations barely budging. It's almost as if an omicron infection protects people from hospitalization, and makes them impervious to getting seriously ill. 

A 20 percent rise in hospitalizations in the last two weeks is not "barely budging" as you would have it.

The usual pattern of denial and obfuscation by retired "Doctor".

[+ Lucky]

8 hours ago, Unicorn said:

I feel a song coming on...

 

I feel a yawn coming on!

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Luv2play said:

A 20 percent rise in hospitalizations in the last two weeks is not "barely budging" as you would have it...

It is when the "cases" have more than doubled during that time. Holy shit, you must have sucked at math. It's really not that complicated. No one is getting seriously ill from this variant, not even the unvaccinated. There are a few people who are testing positive in the hospital, but for the most part the virus is incidental to why the person is in the hospital. You're one of the few people who doesn't seem to get this. Essentially all public health officials do, however. 

[EZEtoGRU]

10 hours ago, Unicorn said:

Yes, of course. You're right, and every single public health professional in the country is wrong. Or, could it be that you're just a hard-head who won't admit he's wrong? Hmmm. Which is more likely?

I cite actual figures/data from real sources.   Every news story on COVID nearly everywhere is covering the COVID hospitalization increases throughout the country.  Literally everyone is talking about the increase in hospitalizations.  Well everyone except you that is.  Sad sad Unicorn.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, EZEtoGRU said:

... Literally everyone is talking about the increase in hospitalizations...

If only you were a woman, he'd be looking for you!

 

[Luv2play]

4 hours ago, Unicorn said:

It is when the "cases" have more than doubled during that time. Holy shit, you must have sucked at math. It's really not that complicated. No one is getting seriously ill from this variant, not even the unvaccinated. There are a few people who are testing positive in the hospital, but for the most part the virus is incidental to why the person is in the hospital. You're one of the few people who doesn't seem to get this. Essentially all public health officials do, however. 

Just to be clear, plenty of people are getting seriously ill and ending up in hospital. Some are dying. The disease is on the upturn in the US. 

Your math is suspect. I trust my grasp of reality, something you don't seem to have.