COVID Gains After Mask Rules Dropped

[BSR]

8 hours ago, EZEtoGRU said:

...but not on airplanes...which makes zero sense.   

The air inside a plane's cabin is circulated every 3 minutes and filtered through surgical-grade HEPA filters.  Yes, people are packed in, but the circulation from ceiling to floor makes airplane cabin air cleaner than inside homes or even operating rooms.  I don't know the specifics of subway air, but my guess is the filtering is far below surgical grade and the air circulates, dunno, once every mayoral term?

[Guest]

12 hours ago, Lucky said:

I found someone to agree with me! Not someone, somewhere. It is a guy right here named @Unicornwho also thinks masks should be worn on public transit...

Yes, for the time being. There's now an experiment, since two cities have retained masking requirements, NYC and LA, and others have not. I always like to be on top of the data. For now, I agree with being extra cautious in highly crowded, poorly ventilated areas. If the data don't support this concern, I'll withdraw my concern.

[Guest]

12 hours ago, EZEtoGRU said:

...but not on airplanes...which makes zero sense.   

It makes no sense to you, but it does make sense to people who know what they're talking about. Improving air circulation is a more important mitigating factor than masking, and the air in airplanes is circulated and filtered very rapidly. There have been no recent outbreaks associated with plane travel--not since the circulation and filtration systems were upgraded. Didn't you take a long flight about a week ago? Please give me your hospital room number so I can send some flowers. Or, if you don't have any symptoms, get a test for laughs, to see if you're one of the hundreds of millions of Americans who've had asymptomatic infections. 

[+ WilliamM]

9 hours ago, Unicorn said:

 I always like to be on top of the data. For now, I agree with being extra cautious in highly crowded, poorly ventilated areas. If the data don't support this concern, I'll withdraw my concern.

Thanks, Doctor Deborah Birk.

[EZEtoGRU]

13 hours ago, BSR said:

The air inside a plane's cabin is circulated every 3 minutes and filtered through surgical-grade HEPA filters.  Yes, people are packed in, but the circulation from ceiling to floor makes airplane cabin air cleaner than inside homes or even operating rooms.  

That's been the go-to argument during the whole pandemic for people who don't want to wear masks on planes.  Meh.  I pay zero attention to folks that claim you can't get Covid on a plane.

Edited May 7, 2022 by EZEtoGRU

[EZEtoGRU]

10 hours ago, Unicorn said:

 I always like to be on top of the data. 

LOL.  Now that's the funniest thing I've heard so far today🤣.

[EZEtoGRU]

10 hours ago, Unicorn said:

It makes no sense to you, but it does make sense to people who know what they're talking about. 

I guess the CDC doesn't know what they're talking about.  Once again you are not up to speed on things and continue to give sketchy recommendations on how to conduct oneself during COVID.  Sad.

https://www.wlrn.org/news/2022-05-04/cdc-reiterates-its-recommendation-for-masks-on-planes-and-trains

[Guest]

10 hours ago, EZEtoGRU said:

That's been the go-to argument during the whole pandemic for people who don't want to wear masks on planes.  Meh.  I pay zero attention to folks that claim you can't get Covid on a plane.

Clearly, what you said was extremely childish. Obviously, "can't" is a silly word. If you think you "couldn't" get any contagious disease all of those years you've been flying, you're deluded. Now that the filtration and air circulation systems in the planes have been updated, the odds of getting sick from a plane ride are much lower now than they were previously. The other issue, of course, is that there are far more dangerous diseases floating around than SARS-CoV2, which, at this point, is very mild illness. 

Only a fool would believe that he ever has or ever will fly in a ZERO risk environment. The relevant question is not whether the risk is zero. The relevant question is whether the risk is heightened now compared to pre-pandemic. With the updated air circulation and filtration, the risk is lower now. You told us last week you were sitting right in front of someone who was hacking up a storm, and who wasn't wearing a mask. If you're at death's door now, you sure haven't let on. 

Edited May 8, 2022 by Unicorn

[+ WilliamM]

16 hours ago, Unicorn said:

Clearly, what you said was extremely childish. Obviously, "can't" is a silly word. If you think you "couldn't" get any contagious disease all of those years you've been flying, you're deluded. Now that the filtration and air circulation systems in the planes have been updated, the odds of getting sick from a plane ride are much lower now than they were previously. The other issue, of course, is that there are far more dangerous diseases floating around than SARS-CoV2, which, at this point, is very mild illness. 

Only a fool would believe that he ever has or ever will fly in a ZERO risk environment. The relevant question is not whether the risk is zero. The relevant question is whether the risk is heightened now compared to pre-pandemic. With the updated air circulation and filtration, the risk is lower now. You told us last week you were sitting right in front of someone who was hacking up a storm, and who wasn't wearing a mask. If you're at death's door now, you sure haven't let on. 

Calling a member "childish"  makes one wonder what you thought of your patients.

[EZEtoGRU]

20 hours ago, Unicorn said:

Clearly, what you said was extremely childish.

You told us last week you were sitting right in front of someone who was hacking up a storm, and who wasn't wearing a mask. If you're at death's door now, you sure haven't let on.

I have no idea what I said that you consider "childish...but I think it's such a hoot that you believe I am childish yet you post a selfie photo of yourself with a soda can tab in your mouth.  Who's the childish one here?

Yes I was on a flight with coughers/hackers coming back from Vegas.  Remember I was masked the entire flight thankfully (the coughers were not masked).  I assume that saved me from catching whatever they were spreading.  Exactly why masks should still be mandatory on planes.

[EZEtoGRU]

4 hours ago, WilliamM said:

Calling a member "childish"  makes one wonder what you thought of your patients.

He claims to have practiced medicine.  I seriously doubt he actually did that based on his track record of comments on this board.  There is no way an actual medical professional would be making the sort of statements Unicorn has said here.

[+ WilliamM]

On 5/4/2022 at 2:46 AM, Unicorn said:

I'm not sure why some people feel some sort of sense of pride because they can find one person in the US who agrees with them. Dr. Wachter is not a public health specialist or official. Just the fact that he's wearing an N95 clearly shows that he's not keeping up with the science. All 6 randomized clinical trial that have looked at this issue, as well as the meta-analysis of these RCT's  (the highest standard of evidence which exists) have shown that N95's work no better than surgical masks. This is not a matter of "opinion." It's established fact at this point. 

The CDC announced last month that as of February 2022, 60% of the US populace had contracted the virus. There's little doubt that as of now, the vast majority of Americans have as well--most probably without symptoms, especially if it's true (don't doubt that it is), that 3.33% of the populace has it at any one time. Even if everyone is masked, the best data show that masking reduces transmission by around 61% (less if only one person is masked, obviously). Unless one is staying at home, getting one's groceries delivered, and being reclusive, one would have to be foolish to believe one is able to "avoid" the virus. 

The White House is warning about  a  dangerous covid19 Winter.

[+ WilliamM]

On 5/8/2022 at 3:18 PM, EZEtoGRU said:

He claims to have practiced medicine.  I seriously doubt he actually did that based on his track record of comments on this board.  There is no way an actual medical professional would be making the sort of statements Unicorn has said here.

Probably in administration somewhere

[Guest]

11 hours ago, WilliamM said:

The White House is warning about  a  dangerous covid19 Winter.

Completely silly. No one knows how things will be then. We should be prepared for the virus to be more virulent, though that hasn't happened yet. They are making new vaccines. But there's no way to make forecasts at this point. 

[BSR]

5 hours ago, Unicorn said:

Completely silly. No one knows how things will be then. We should be prepared for the virus to be more virulent, though that hasn't happened yet. They are making new vaccines. But there's no way to make forecasts at this point. 

"A dangerous covid19 winter" ... hmm, where have I heard that before?  Oh right, that's what Biden said about this past winter:

Biden warns of winter of 'severe illness and death' for unvaccinated due to Omicron

[mike carey]

Moderator's Note

Please steer clear of political commentary in the thread, and stick to the health aspects, befitting this Forum.

[Rudynate]

On 5/6/2022 at 10:19 PM, Unicorn said:

It makes no sense to you, but it does make sense to people who know what they're talking about. Improving air circulation is a more important mitigating factor than masking, and the air in airplanes is circulated and filtered very rapidly. There have been no recent outbreaks associated with plane travel--not since the circulation and filtration systems were upgraded. Didn't you take a long flight about a week ago? Please give me your hospital room number so I can send some flowers. Or, if you don't have any symptoms, get a test for laughs, to see if you're one of the hundreds of millions of Americans who've had asymptomatic infections. 

I'm sure there is data somewhere about the incidence of  COVID among flight crews.  Given the controversy around COVID and air travel, there must have been some sort of study.

[Rudynate]

6 minutes ago, Rudynate said:

I'm sure there is data somewhere about the incidence of  COVID among flight crews.  Given the controversy around COVID and air travel, there must have been some sort of study.

I found this:

https://abcnews.go.com/Business/us-airline-employees-report-lower-rate-covid-19/story?id=73149839

According to this article, the incidence of COVID among flight crews is reported by the industry and the flight attendants' union as being approximately half that in the general population.  I wouldn't trust industry data.  And the union data might be specious too - the union has a vested interest in maintaining full employment among its members. 

Nonetheless, it's a persuasive data point.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Rudynate said:

... I wouldn't trust industry data.  And the union data might be specious too - the union has a vested interest in maintaining full employment among its members...

I'm not sure if you read that article carefully. First of all, it was written almost 2 years ago, in September 2020. Also, the article states "Delta is testing all of their employees for COVID-19, both the active virus and antibodies, through a partnership with the Mayo Clinic and Quest Diagnostics." I suppose it would theoretically be possible to fake antigen tests by instructing every employee to rinse their nasal passages with saline rinse before being tested, but that would require massive numbers of employees to agree to the ruse and not have it leak. There's no way to fake an antibody test. The union and its members definitely don't have an interest in keeping the employees on the planes when they're sick. First of all, they get paid full salary if they're out on sick leave. Secondly, why would they want their members infecting other members (particularly when the virus was deadly, when the article was written?

The article does show how safe air travel was at that time--and that was before the ventilation and filtration systems were upgraded. Indeed, I haven't heard of any outbreaks from plane trips. 

[Rudynate]

5 minutes ago, Unicorn said:

I'm not sure if you read that article carefully. First of all, it was written almost 2 years ago, in September 2020. Also, the article states "Delta is testing all of their employees for COVID-19, both the active virus and antibodies, through a partnership with the Mayo Clinic and Quest Diagnostics." I suppose it would theoretically be possible to fake antigen tests by instructing every employee to rinse their nasal passages with saline rinse before being tested, but that would require massive numbers of employees to agree to the ruse and not have it leak. There's no way to fake an antibody test. The union and its members definitely don't have an interest in keeping the employees on the planes when they're sick. First of all, they get paid full salary if they're out on sick leave. Secondly, why would they want their members infecting other members (particularly when the virus was deadly, when the article was written?

The article does show how safe air travel was at that time--and that was before the ventilation and filtration systems were upgraded. Indeed, I haven't heard of any outbreaks from plane trips. 

Oh Unicorn, Unicorn, it must be a terrible drain always needing to have the last word, compulsively making others wrong, showing the world how much you know.  Why don't you just take a break some time. 

[+ sync]

I would like to see/hear what that dumb-ass US District Court Judge Kathryn Kimball Mizelle, who struck down the CDC's mask mandate for public transportation, has to say about the current uptick in covid.

[Rudynate]

1 hour ago, sync said:

I would like to see/hear what that dumb-ass US District Court Judge Kathryn Kimball Mizelle, who struck down the CDC's mask mandate for public transportation, has to say about the current uptick in covid.

She's thinking "The Constitution is the Constitution. Somebody has to make the hard choices."

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Rudynate said:

Oh Unicorn, Unicorn, it must be a terrible drain always needing to have the last word, compulsively making others wrong, showing the world how much you know.  Why don't you just take a break some time. 

I will continue to challenge those who post false or grossly misleading information. I'll take a break when people stop posting BS. 

[+ WilliamM]

7 minutes ago, Unicorn said:

I will continue to challenge those who post false or grossly misleading information. I'll take a break when people stop posting BS. 

Come on, @Unicorn.

Everyone else is wrong, but you.

"Grossly misleading information???"

[Guest]

4 hours ago, sync said:

I would like to see/hear what that dumb-ass US District Court Judge Kathryn Kimball Mizelle, who struck down the CDC's mask mandate for public transportation, has to say about the current uptick in covid.

While her ruling was a legal one, not a public health one, what everybody but you and a few other people realize by now is that "cases" are irrelevant and have been for months now. It's true that the virus has been raging through the US for the last 2 months, but hospitalizations have stayed relatively flat. In fact, the percentage of people in the hospital who test positive at this point is pretty much the same as the percentage of people who test positive for the virus in the US, about 2.5%, meaning that the infection has nothing to do with why the patient is in the hospital. It seems that every member of Congress, the Presidential Cabinet, and talk show host has contracted it multiple times over the last 3 months (well, slight exaggeration, I confess, but not far off), and not a single one of them has gotten seriously ill (most have no symptoms at all, just "test positive"), no matter how old or infirm that person is. ICU rate has been practically zero, as has the death rate.