COVID Gains After Mask Rules Dropped

[+ WilliamM]

Not helpful to keep writing it is not as  dangerous as the "common cold"  because elderly folk  may get very ill  from a cold.

[Guest]

Here are the latest data on hospitalization rates in California. Note that the rate is per MILLION!

As I've said multiple times previously, these statistics are better than that for the common cold (for the vaccinated). And it gets even better than that--unlike the common cold, if you're seriously immunocompromised, frail, or elderly, medications like paxlovid can virtually eliminate any risk of serious illness. As today's New York Times said:

"Together, these two lessons can point the way to a sensible approach to Covid in the coming months. One, nothing matters nearly as much as vaccination. A continued push to persuade skeptics to get shots — and to make sure that people are receiving booster shots — will save lives. Two, there is a strong argument for continuing to remove other restrictions, and returning to normal life, now that Omicron caseloads have fallen 95 percent from their peak. If those restrictions were costless, then their small benefits might still be worth it. But of course they do have costs.

Masks hamper people’s ability to communicate, verbally and otherwise. Social distancing leads to the isolation and disruption that have fed so many problems over the past two years — mental health troubles, elevated blood pressure, drug overdoses, violent crime, vehicle crashes and more. If a new variant emerges, and hospitals are again at risk of being overwhelmed, then reinstating Covid restrictions may make sense again, despite their modest effects. But that’s not where the country is today.

Related: Hawaii became the final state to announce it would drop its indoor mask mandate. And my colleague Dana Goldstein looked at the “alarming” amount of pandemic learning loss, with the biggest effects on students who are Black, Latino, lower-income, disabled or not fluent in English."

 

Edited March 29, 2022 by Unicorn

[Guest]

On 3/27/2022 at 6:47 PM, nycman said:

...Yes, people with predisposing medical conditions are 1,000 times more likely to die. 

But, "1,000 times more likely"….isn’t the same as 100%.

Nothing is 100% in medicine. Or in life. There is some risk in everything we do. There is a risk (albeit very small) that we could choke and die while swallowing food, but we die if we don't eat. Everything is a matter of risks and benefits, which much be weighed, and all risks put into context. Only a fool would believe we go through life without taking risks. 

[+ Pensant]

I haven’t looked at COVID statistics in a month and no longer read any Covid-related articles. 

[pubic_assistance]

On 3/27/2022 at 9:47 PM, nycman said:

But, "1,000 times more likely"….isn’t the same as 100%.

We can't shut down the entire world to save that one person with unexpected shortcomings in their immune system.

Planet Earth ( and whatever God you pray to ) do not guarantee a long life to every soul.

Destroying the livelihood of thousands and undermining the health of millions makes no sense when you're trying to save someone who's inferior health will eventually get them struck down by something.

[Guest]

On 3/26/2022 at 3:52 PM, Rudynate said:

I will continue to guided by the pros.  After all, epidemiologists deal with this stuff every day.

Well, thank God all of the pros agree with me, and none of them agrees with you. Los Angeles removed some of the final vestiges of mandates today, on a vote of 13 to 1, on the advice of the public health professionals. I didn't even need to wear a mask at my doctor's visit today. 

[+ WilliamM]

1 hour ago, Unicorn said:

Well, thank God all of the pros agree with me, and none of them agrees with you. Los Angeles removed some of the final vestiges of mandates today, on a vote of 13 to 1, on the advice of the public health professionals. I didn't even need to wear a mask at my doctor's visit today. 

Does Doctor Anthony Fauci agree with you!

[Guest]

3 hours ago, WilliamM said:

Does Doctor Anthony Fauci agree with you!

I hadn't heard from him recently, but apparently 2 weeks ago, he agreed that the US should be ditching the mask mandates, just as the UK did. The UK noticed a spike in BA.2 subvariant cases, but continued drops in hospitalizations and serious illness. The local news today called it the "stealth variant," because most people infected don't even know they have it. It's time to ratchet down from panic mode, and especially not to get into a tizzy about "cases" when the illness burden is dropping like a rock.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/fauci-covid-19-cases-increase-necessarily-hospitalizations/story?id=83509114

"...Similar to the U.K., much of the U.S. has recently relaxed mitigation efforts like mask mandates and requirements for proof of vaccination... he defended the CDC decision to loosen its mask recommendations earlier this month by shifting to a strategy that focused more on severe outcomes, like hospitalizations and deaths, rather than on daily case spread..."

So the short answer is yes, he (and more importantly, Dr. Walensky, the CDC director) agree with me. 

[Rudynate]

On 3/29/2022 at 11:44 AM, Unicorn said:

Here are the latest data on hospitalization rates in California. Note that the rate is per MILLION!

As I've said multiple times previously, these statistics are better than that for the common cold (for the vaccinated). And it gets even better than that--unlike the common cold, if you're seriously immunocompromised, frail, or elderly, medications like paxlovid can virtually eliminate any risk of serious illness. As today's New York Times said:

"Together, these two lessons can point the way to a sensible approach to Covid in the coming months. One, nothing matters nearly as much as vaccination. A continued push to persuade skeptics to get shots — and to make sure that people are receiving booster shots — will save lives. Two, there is a strong argument for continuing to remove other restrictions, and returning to normal life, now that Omicron caseloads have fallen 95 percent from their peak. If those restrictions were costless, then their small benefits might still be worth it. But of course they do have costs.

Masks hamper people’s ability to communicate, verbally and otherwise. Social distancing leads to the isolation and disruption that have fed so many problems over the past two years — mental health troubles, elevated blood pressure, drug overdoses, violent crime, vehicle crashes and more. If a new variant emerges, and hospitals are again at risk of being overwhelmed, then reinstating Covid restrictions may make sense again, despite their modest effects. But that’s not where the country is today.

Related: Hawaii became the final state to announce it would drop its indoor mask mandate. And my colleague Dana Goldstein looked at the “alarming” amount of pandemic learning loss, with the biggest effects on students who are Black, Latino, lower-income, disabled or not fluent in English."

 

I want to see that it will last this time.   This feels like summer of 2020 and 2021.   We were in Napa this past weekend.  There was almost nobody wearing masks.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Rudynate said:

I want to see that it will last this time.   This feels like summer of 2020 and 2021.   We were in Napa this past weekend.  There was almost nobody wearing masks.

Well, they're just following guidelines from the experts. I guess it is possible for the virus to mutate to a more dangerous form, but at this time, the ONLY variants present are the original omicron and BA.2, both of which pose essentially no risk to all but the most frail people. There really is no rational reason to mask up at this time. If things change, so can our approach. It is comforting to know, however, that so far in no instance has the virus mutated to a more dangerous variant. 

[+ Pensant]

Now there are 70 countries that don’t require proof of vax to enter, including Portugal, Greece, Slovenia and Croatia, among others.

[+ Lucky]

52 minutes ago, Pensant said:

Now there are 70 countries that don’t require proof of vax to enter, including Portugal, Greece, Slovenia and Croatia, among others.

Wasn't it just yesterday when you said you don't read COVID news anymore?

 

Posted yesterday at 04:26 AM

"I haven’t looked at COVID statistics in a month and no longer read any Covid-related articles."

[+ Pensant]

20 minutes ago, Lucky said:

Wasn't it just yesterday when you said you don't read COVID news anymore?

 

 

Posted yesterday at 04:26 AM

"I haven’t looked at COVID statistics in a month and no longer read any Covid-related articles."

Guilty as charged! This was in reference to vacation planning yesterday. I’m trying to choose between Portugal and southern Spain or renting a villa on the Istrian coast of either Slovenia or Croatia.

Fortunately, I’m triple vaxxed.

[Rudynate]

I went to Dallas last weekend.  Leaving San Francisco, the flight was about half and half - masked and unmasked.  Coming back, there were more masked than unmasked.  SFO-DFW was on American.  The head flight attendant was an impossibly hot guy - about 35, built, shaved head and eyebrows.   Normally I don't like shaved eyebrows, but for some reason, on him - it was totally sexy. He was very pleasant and very on the ball.

[EZEtoGRU]

I've been travelling for about a week now...Primarily LA and Las Vegas.  Only about 15% of people on the planes are masking up...that included me.  My time in LA (one day) was primarily in a hotel and at the Greek Theatre.  My observation was only about 10% of people were masked.  Here in Las Vegas even fewer are masking.  LV is incredibly busy this week with the NFL Draft starting here tonight.  We know Covid cases are on the rise nationwide.  Hospitalizations are also up in some places.

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

3 hours ago, Cryptomaniac said:

 I believe everything would have gone a long time ago if some people respected some rules and were more open-minded about vaccination. 

Ask the people of Shanghai how that's going.

Conversely, I believe we'll find that the rules and lockdowns caused more long term health problems to society than the virus itself ever could have.

[EZEtoGRU]

5 hours ago, Vegas_nw1982 said:

Conversely, I believe we'll find that the rules and lockdowns caused more long term health problems to society than the virus itself ever could have.

That will be hard to determine.  For those that suffer long-term health problems tied to the lockdowns...is that better or worse than dying from COVID had there been no rules or lockdowns?

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

48 minutes ago, EZEtoGRU said:

That will be hard to determine.  For those that suffer long-term health problems tied to the lockdowns...is that better or worse than dying from COVID had there been no rules or lockdowns?

It would be interesting to compare changes in life expectancy in locations with more restrictions vs fewer restrictions.

[NJF]

17 hours ago, Vegas_nw1982 said:

Ask the people of Shanghai how that's going.

Conversely, I believe we'll find that the rules and lockdowns caused more long term health problems to society than the virus itself ever could have.

The second point is simply false. Wuhan, Bergamot and New York City all showed what covid can do. 
Shanghai is a different matter. With an effective vaccine, it maybe preferable to let covid run its course, but the Chinese government slow walked the approval of mRNA vaccine and their domestic vaccine may not be effective enough to let the covid run freely. 

[Rudynate]

1 hour ago, NJF said:

The second point is simply false. Wuhan, Bergamot and New York City all showed what covid can do. 
Shanghai is a different matter. With an effective vaccine, it maybe preferable to let covid run its course, but the Chinese government slow walked the approval of mRNA vaccine and their domestic vaccine may not be effective enough to let the covid run freely. 

And the Chinese government's position is that a run on the healthcare system would be a disaster, completely crushing it.   Given China's enormous population, that seems like a reasonable concern.

[Guest]

19 hours ago, NJF said:

The second point is simply false. Wuhan, Bergamot and New York City all showed what covid can do. 
Shanghai is a different matter. With an effective vaccine, it maybe preferable to let covid run its course, but the Chinese government slow walked the approval of mRNA vaccine and their domestic vaccine may not be effective enough to let the covid run freely. 

The poster's "second point" was stated as "I believe we'll find that the rules and lockdowns caused more long term health problems to society than the virus itself ever could have." How can you know that's false? Can you read his mind, to know what he actually believes? One thing we must bear in mind is that "what covid can do" in April/May 2022 is not what it could do in March/April 2020. The efficacy of the Chinese vaccines is questionable, but we know that with the vaccines licensed in the US, serious illness/hospitalization from the illness is extraordinarily rare--on par with the common cold. Without the vaccine, the morbidity and mortality are similar to that for an unvaccinated person during flu season. We are now in a completely different situation than we were 2 years ago. The Chinese lockdowns border on the insane, and are causing extreme economic repercussions not just in China, but, given the country's population and productivity, the entire planet. It demonstrated the dangers of policies which are based almost entirely on the feelings of one person (Xi), rather than consensus opinions built in committees composed of well-educated public health officials who are actively looking at the data. 

Edited April 30, 2022 by Unicorn

[Guest]

17 hours ago, Vegas_nw1982 said:

It would be interesting to compare changes in life expectancy in locations with more restrictions vs fewer restrictions.

I really hope they're doing that or will be doing that. Some people don't seem to understand that over-reacting, or acting out of fear rather than science, carries not only economic and mental health adverse effects, but physical health adverse effects as well. 

[coriolis888]

On 3/27/2022 at 4:34 PM, pubic_assistance said:

Covid is rough but no healthy person has died from it. Statistics have clearly demonstrated a population that is older / fatter and unhealthy are at risk. Young healthy people are not dying from Covid. That's a myth. If you're worried feel free to stay home and for the rest of us please let us get back to our lives.

I was hoping to read that you were joking about "no healthy person has died from it (covid).  

My dentist, who was age 47 and who played tennis regularly and went to a gym five or six times each week died of covid last January.  He was not overweight and was healthy by his doctor's standards and the standards of society.  

Because he appeared so healthy and only had a fever of around 101, his doctor told him to stay home and isolate whenever possible.  He was also told to take a fever reducing aspirin type medication. 

One morning his wife tried to wake him but he was dead. 

Because he was relatively young and healthy appearing, his doctor would not sign his death certificate.  An autopsy was ordered.  Autopsies are not routine anymore except in the case of relatively young people dying or suspicious deaths.    

His wife showed me his death certificates which clearly states that he died of covid.  

Maybe he is an exception.  

Edited April 30, 2022 by coriolis888

[+ Lucky]

COVID deaths among the vaccinated are up. They now constitute 42% of the fatalities, compared to 23% last September.

The pandemic’s toll is no longer falling almost exclusively on those who chose not to or could not get shots, with vaccine protection waning over time and the elderly and immunocompromised — who are at greatest risk of succumbing to covid-19, even if vaccinated — having a harder time dodging increasingly contagious strains.

...

A key explanation for the rise in deaths among the vaccinated is that covid-19 fatalities are again concentrated among the elderly.

Nearly two-thirds of the people who died during the omicron surge were 75 and older, according to a Post analysis, compared with a third during the delta wave. Seniors are overwhelmingly immunized, but vaccines are less effective and their potency wanes over time in older age groups.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2022/04/29/covid-deaths-unvaccinated-boosters/

Edited May 1, 2022 by Lucky

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Lucky said:

COVID deaths among the vaccinated are up. They now constitute 42% of the fatalities, compared to 23% last September.

The pandemic’s toll is no longer falling almost exclusively on those who chose not to or could not get shots...

The other obvious, and more accurate, explanation is that, given that the statistics measures any death from someone who tests positive rather than someone who dies due to the virus, those who died with the virus die mostly for other reasons. Despite very high "case" numbers, deaths have stayed very low in the US. Current 7-day average is 308:

People who die BECAUSE OF the virus almost always spend some time in the ICU, because the cause of death is usually pulmonary, and this necessitates going on a ventilator. Yet the ICU rate of hospitalization has been close to zero (the ICU line is the dark blue line):

 

We all know for a fact that immunizations offer substantial protection from the virus. The fact that the deaths are becoming unrelated to immunization status shows two things: (1) many unvaccinated have immunity from infection, and (2) deaths with the virus are not due TO the virus. 

 

Edited May 1, 2022 by Unicorn